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(OLD) Contest Unfair Infractions Here

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Jamie

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Anyways, I think a new person should be promoted, just so we can have an extra pair of eyes on the forums in case something needs to be handled (and so the community doesn't go crazy when something they don't like happens). This new person could provide a new perspective on how infractions/warnings should be handed out, and settle disputes between other members.

I personally think that A Link In Time would make a good partner for Thar as a second Community Coordinator. His contributions as an Event Staff have certainly not gone unnoticed.
 

Mercedes

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Anyways, I think a new person should be promoted, just so we can have an extra pair of eyes on the forums in case something needs to be handled (and so the community doesn't go crazy when something they don't like happens). This new person could provide a new perspective on how infractions/warnings should be handed out, and settle disputes between other members.

We should call them Judges.

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Guys, I think the point of this thread has been lost. This isn't the go-to area for posting your concerns with infractions, this is a last-resort when communication with the mods privately has failed. As Matt's OP says:

"Before posting here, please try to communicate with the mod in question, or any other you feel you can talk to, privately through a PM or through IMs like Skype so that they have some record of the conversation they can use to help sort it out with all the mods."

I'm not pointing fingers because it isn't one specific incident that has alone sparked this, nor am I agreeing or disagreeing with any of the cases that have been presented, I'm just reminding people that there are official routes to take before you should be laying your disagreements out here in the open.

Feel free to accuse me of mini-modding. My intention isn't to patronize or try and assert some form of superiority. I just feel like this thread is worth more than becoming the dumping ground for generic complaints about moderator decisions.
 

Emma

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I know this isn't an infraction, but I think it has to be pointed out that the staff is attempting to silience and intimidate me out of opposing them on the knights issue.
I recieved this warning:
Justac00lguy said:
Dear Matt,

You have received a warning at Dungeon Gaming Network.

Reason:
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Insulting/Flaming Other Members (3rd Degree)

Hey Matt.

There have been quite a few complaints about some of your posts in the recent HK discussion thread. First off, you kept on insisting that Repentance is "wanting to destroy the HKs" and even called it a abuse of power (here).You were then warned by Kitsu, unofficially, to stop making these accusations that painted Repentance as someone who is abusing his admin rights to antagonise/ignore you and abolish the current Hylian Knight regime. I would like so to say that this was not the case whatsoever, Repentance was simply speaking on behalf of the chat, the majority actually being HKs.

You failed to listen to Kitsu though, and once again, kept accusing Rep even when it was made clear this was an entire staff decision. Links below:

http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50335&p=908102&viewfull=1#post908102
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50335&p=908118&viewfull=1#post908118
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50335&p=908142&viewfull=1#post908142
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50335&p=908154&viewfull=1#post908154
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50335&p=908417&viewfull=1#post908417
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50335&p=908421&viewfull=1#post908421

I want to make it clear that this isn't an attempt to silence you, but when you keep making accusations when that person, and others, say stop, it comes off in a very inappropriate manner.
-------

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Dungeon Gaming Network

Despite assurances to the contrary, is a very blatant attempt to try to scare me out of opposing them. I have done nothing wrong in the thread and I was within my rights to point out the abuse of power that was going on and the harassment I was receiving. In response all I get is accused of being the one at fault when this is not the case. I felt it was wrong to stay silent about this intimidation and I need to make sure it's made clear that using moderator powers to threaten people is extremely inappropriate. I do think this warning needs to be deleted and I deserve an apology for the treatment I have been getting and the staff's attempts to remove my ability to voice my opinion on this matter.
 

Emma

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No one's trying to silence you from opposing anyone. Only from making baseless accusations.
Clearly telling someone so shut up or else is the best way to convince people you're not trying to silence them. I've been faced with constant accusations in this whole ordeal and people constantly belittling me for my opinion. I keep being told that I shouldn't be listened to, then threatened when I dare to complain about being treated that way. then they're offended that I protested. It's completely unfair and it is an obvious attempt at censorship.
 

Jamie

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When was "so shut up or else" ever actually said? Isn't telling people they are saying/doing things they aren't doing or saying part of the reason why you were warned?
 

Emma

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When was "so shut up or else" ever actually said? Isn't telling people they are saying/doing things they aren't doing or saying part of the reason why you were warned?
A warning when I didn't even do anything wrong. Accusing mods of abusing their position is not something that can be against the rules. It'd be unethical and biased. Trying to use the rules to your advantage to scare and silence someone you don't agree with fits the very definition of corrupt and there's no other way of seeing it.
 
This whole thing has gotten insanely heated.

I don't even know what the hell happened, it's just accusations back and forth.

The common ground here is that clans seem to be a decent idea to explore, lets just go from there see what we can work out. We don't have to accept it right away or make any immediate changes, but it's a place to start anew and everyone can chill the hell out. I think everyone should just dial it down a notch or two and remember in the end this is an internet forum for fun. Nothing more.
 

Emma

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I haven't forgotten about this censorship attempt yet and I still think something needs to be done about it. I do think that the warning needs to be deleted from my account and that there should be an apology given to me. It was a very transparent attempt at censorship and I'm not going to ignore it or let anyone think they can just get away with trying to do it.
 

Justac00lguy

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Your warning was throughly explained and referenced multiple times. You have this idea that Repentance is out to get you. You constantly accused him of "abusing" his powers and that he's "out to destroy the Knights". You were even told, by an Admin, that the decision to post the thread about the HK reworking was done by the entire staff chat. Thing is, the majority of the staff are HKs and yet most agreed with the idea to post the thread. So you're accusations were proved false, and after the unofficial warning, you didn't stop with the accusations, which is why the intervention happened.

You can believe whatever you want and create this idea that the staff are evil demons out to destroy you; it's simply not true. If you were doing this to someone who wasn't a mod or admin, we would have took the same action. If a member is accusing someone of something they didn't do repeatedly, over and over again, when that person and others have told them to stop, then something needs to be done. You think it's nice to constantly harass someone and accuse of them something that never happened? No it's not.

If anyone deems this action as censorship against Matt then please speak up. Otherwise stop these baseless accusations.
 

A Link In Time

To Overcome Harder Challenges
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Although I'm not a moderator, I'll contribute my own two cents on the situation.

I think warnings and infractions should be used sparingly. If a communication breakdown occurs, the members involved should try to resolve the problem themselves. In the case of a thread, personal issues should be taken outside of the thread and discussed privately.

Only if that fails, should a moderator contact both sides of a dispute and try to establish peace as a familiar. If the situation cannot be resolved after multiple attempts, a warning may be issued.

A warning isn't the end of the world. It's simply a nudge in the right direction. This is reflected in the fact that it carries a value of zero infraction points. It should be taken as an opportunity for self-reflection by trying to avoid such behavior in the future.
 

Emma

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Your warning was throughly explained and referenced multiple times. You have this idea that Repentance is out to get you. You constantly accused him of "abusing" his powers and that he's "out to destroy the Knights". You were even told, by an Admin, that the decision to post the thread about the HK reworking was done by the entire staff chat. Thing is, the majority of the staff are HKs and yet most agreed with the idea to post the thread. So you're accusations were proved false, and after the unofficial warning, you didn't stop with the accusations, which is why the intervention happened.

You can believe whatever you want and create this idea that the staff are evil demons out to destroy you; it's simply not true. If you were doing this to someone who wasn't a mod or admin, we would have took the same action. If a member is accusing someone of something they didn't do repeatedly, over and over again, when that person and others have told them to stop, then something needs to be done. You think it's nice to constantly harass someone and accuse of them something that never happened? No it's not.

If anyone deems this action as censorship against Matt then please speak up. Otherwise stop these baseless accusations.
Well the condescending tone is absolutely strengthening your case. It is certainly going to convince people to take your side.
I am not sure what you're talking about about the decision to create the thread. My issue was how Repentance was handling it. The first thing he did was declare that HKs didn't have the right to discuss this:
I would like to make this part very clear: This is not an HK decision. The HKs not being fully okay with this decision will not be the only thing that influences this decision. However, we are informing the entire community of this decision and allowing everyone to have their say.
It was a very, very inappropriate what to use authority. More of the staff being with this decision makes it worse, not better. Numbers don't justify an abuse of power. My opening complaint in the thread was this delclaration of how HKs do not deserve the right to have a say in their fate. Whether this is one staff member insisting on this and all of them, it doesn't stop it from being inappropriate. After Kitsu complained about what I was saying, my activity afterwards was centered on pointing out how knights who did not agree with the plan to demote them in the first place, and that didn't want them removed, had no chance of making it. It is highly inappropriate to consider this an insult. Repentance made several statements that backed up what I said. He claimed that the current number of knights are too many to efficiently discuss this problem, and that few people who are in would make it back in. It stands to reason that any knights that were in this "replacement group" were going to be selected on a bias. Contrary to what you keep insisting, it being a near-uniform staff decision does NOT make that less likely, it makes it more likely. If what was claimed was true, and was not Repentence pushing for his way, then there is no other conclusion to make but that the staff wants the reboot to happen. Is that not exactly what was said that they made a group decision? Given that, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the people chosen to be the "new" knights would be selected on a bias because the people arbitrating the transition claim to be in agreement that the knights need to go. So my insistance that it was an attempt to censor dissenting ideas was not unreasonable. And as I was directing my complaints after Kitsu's statement to the idea itself, and not Repentence directly (he merely was the one that kept responding to my statements) it is not reasonable to assert I was directing personal attacks against him. The discussion was not going in favor of the staff's decision. Both Oni and myself were pointing out the flaws in the demotion idea and how it was not sensible. That cannot be construed as an attack. Meaning that warning I recieved was a very clear attempt to remove an opinion that was inconveniencing a staff decision. Little to nothing was done about the insults I was receiving in that thread (for instance), in the shoutbox, and on my visitor messages during these events. So it seems incredibly unlikely that "upholding the rules" was the reasoning for this action, despite insistence to the contrary. Repentence was making excuses to not listen to my ideas about clans and every attempt I made to take the subject to that as a solution was met with an attempt to change the subject back into how amazing the demotion idea was and how the knights already deserved to be purged. No one would discuss the idea. So, as I've been saying, it was not unreasonable to assume that it was being suppressed. The moment I received this warning and I let people know about it, interest in the clan idea surged and people began actually discussing it instead of making excuses to not discuss it. I kept being painted as the villian when I never did anything wrong. Pointing out how a plan is illogical and was going to harm people is not a personal attack. Insisting that it is, is in itself an abuse of power because it can easily be seen as an attempt to utilize the rules in a way that stops me from discussing it. The rules are explicit in that they allow for disagreeing with staff decisions. And I disagree with the assertion that the way I did it was inappropriate. I completely disagreed with Kitsu's allegation that I was making personal attacks, but regardless I turned my attention to decision itself rather than any individual advocating it after he made that statement. It is completely untrue that I kept accusing Rep even when it was made clear this was an entire staff decision. when that's the exact opposite of what I did.

A warning isn't the end of the world. It's simply a nudge in the right direction. This is reflected in the fact that it carries a value of zero infraction points. It should be taken as an opportunity for self-reflection by trying to avoid such behavior in the future.
Yes an infraction could have been worse. However, given how inappropriate it was in the first place to do it, and insisting it was the right thing to do when the rationale for doing it does not stand to scrutiny, I think it is still important to stress how wrong it is, to help prevent problems like this from happening to anyone else in the future.
 
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Jamie

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I didn't say HKs couldn't discuss it, I said it is not an HK decision, we gave the HKs equal say as the rest of the community.

You should use the report button or PM a mod with certain posts or VMs or what have you, so the mods can analyze them on a case by case basis. On the topic of clans, that was not the topic of the thread. I was tackling the exact topic at hand.
 
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Emma

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I didn't say HKs couldn't discuss it, I said it is not an HK decision, we gave the HKs equal say as the rest of the community.

You should use the report button or PM a mod with certain posts or VMs or what have you, so the mods can analyze them on a case by case basis. On the topic of clans, that was not the topic of the thread. I was tackling the exact topic at hand.
I went and did so for the one I felt was most severe and the least ambiguous. However I don't understand why that should be necessary when the staff has been watching both threads, in which I pointed these out already. If you can see something like this yourself, I don't understand why you still need a report to do something about it.
 
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