No Motion Controls After All?

[Big Octo]

A couple of days ago, many Zelda sites have been featuring a news report of an interview with Miyamoto, in which he hints on Zelda Wii U. One of the major highlights is a mention of possibly not including motion controls in the next game.

Yeah. With the last game, Skyward Sword, that was a game where you had motion control to use your weapons and a lot of different items, and I thought that was a lot of fun, but there were some people who weren’t able to do that or didn’t like it as much and stopped playing partway through it. So we’re in the phase where we’re looking back at what’s worked very well and what has been missing and how can we evolve it further.

With this in mind, I'll give an opinion.

Too be truly honest, I'd much more prefer classic controls. Motion controls are fun for some games, but I don't think they should overtake a franchise that has been mainly built on classic controls. Whenever I play a game with this situation, it feels much more like I'm playing with a toy rather than enjoying a game. I do acknowledge that motion controls can be good if done right, but this doesn't change my views.

Too compensate for a lack of motion controls (assuming they're not implemented in Zelda Wii U), there's always the game pad. The tablet touch screen can do wonders, such as working as a map or inventory screen. Need I say more?

So, here you go. Now it's your turn; what's your opinion on the matter?

 

[octorok74]

I'm with you in that I prefer classic control. I did like the motion control, but living with five other people means someone is getting a Wiimote to the throat. And that makes me the bad guy. I just really like using buttons to control a character's actions, it somehow makes me feel more involved.

 

[A Link In Time]

Interesting thread. Personally, I don't believe Miyamoto's statement excludes motion controls just yet, he merely vaguely alluded to the fact that motion controls are not for everyone. Remember: Zelda Wii U is still in its Research & Development phase.

Eiji Aonuma, on the other hand had this to say regarding motion controls shortly following the release of Skyward Sword in an interview last November:

Obviously, it’s the new controller that’s got the screen built into it, and in particular we’re looking at how we can combine that new controller with something like motion control, and perhaps use the new controller in such a way that it becomes a new item that you’re able to use to make the game feel fresh and new.

At this point, we see a face-off between the new and old guards regarding what we'll see from the franchise's future. I believe it's safe to say after Nintendo's E3 presentation this year that motion control will be included in Zelda Wii U but to a lesser extent than in Skyward Sword and that's just the way I want it.

 

[Spirit]

I'd prefer button controls too (even though I'm in the habit it trying to move my Gamecube controller when i play certain games) after playing SS.
The motion controls worked fine for every game i played and I didn't have anything against them, they just felt unnecessary.

However, I don't think Miyamoto meant that they were throwing away motion controls Anouma said that the next home console Zelda will use a lot of unused ideas from SS, and while this wont necessarily mean the next home console Zelda will have motion controls because of left over ideas, I think Miyamoto meant that they'll be coming at them a different way, perhaps lessening the motions you need to control things with or only having motion controls at certain points through the game, or perhaps even meaning that they'd be optional. I certainly don't think after having the Wii and calling their next console the Wii-U that Nintendo will back track on a whole generation and do away with motion controls.

I have friends who weren't of able body to play games like SS, i think Miyamoto will be looking in to h to make motion controls accessible to and possible for people with playing difficulties.

 

[Dio]

I liked SS's motion controls as they allow you to swing the sword how you want, but I preferred combat in games like WW when combat was more fast paced and you could be surrounded by tens of enemies. I also missed the parry attack/backslice from WW and TP respectively.
To be honest I'm not really that fussed what they do, both play styles I enjoyed so I'll just accept what they give me.

 

[Locke]

To me it sounds like they're trying to "evolve [motion controls] further." Not that they're experimenting with alternatives, but that they're trying to improve what's already there. It's early on and anything can happen, but I think both Aonuma and Miyamoto really want motion controls to happen again. I do too, as long as they pinpoint what didn't work and fix it, and add new ways of experiencing it.

 

[Terminus]

How bout an option to use "classic" controls so those who cannot use motion for one reason or another? I personally think the controls could have been better. Also, add in a "Lefty Mode" so people will stop griping about "Right-Handed Link."

Alos, the tablet could be your shield and the wiimote would still be the sword. Interesting possibilities there...

 

[JuicieJ]

To me it sounds like they're trying to "evolve [motion controls] further." Not that they're experimenting with alternatives, but that they're trying to improve what's already there. It's early on and anything can happen, but I think both Aonuma and Miyamoto really want motion controls to happen again. I do too, as long as they pinpoint what didn't work and fix it, and add new ways of experiencing it.

This. Miyamoto and Aonuma are all about innovation and moving forward with gameplay, and they know that taking a step backwards by going back to the inferior button controls would be a bad move in terms of potential of and financial gain. SS percentage-wise is the best-selling Zelda title to date. There's no doubt the Wii MotionPlus is a major reason for this. The fact that this game was a swan song for the Wii makes this all the more significant. The motion controls opened up so many doors for the Zelda series, and closing those doors would just be stupid. The vast majority of fans like the motion controls and don't want Nintendo to leave them behind. And they won't. They're just going to find ways to improve them and, in turn, find ways for even more people to like them.

 

[SinkingBadges]

How bout an option to use "classic" controls so those who cannot use motion for one reason or another? I personally think the controls could have been better. Also, add in a "Lefty Mode" so people will stop griping about "Right-Handed Link."

Yeah, I remember a lot of people used to propose a classic controller alternative for SS along those lines, but the problem would be potential design restriction. To explain myself: Picture if they had included a gamecube pad/CCP option in SS; that would mean they'd have to make it so both work (obviously), therefore, game mechanics would have to be twisted/cropped to suit both, or one would work better than the other (which would make one of the options look like a waste of time). Then again, that is assuming the control sceme is taylor made for the next controller, like SS was with the WMP. If they plan their controls differently next time, that could change. Chances are I'm speaking too early.

And yeah, letting you pick hands would be nice if the control scheme calls for it.

This. Miyamoto and Aonuma are all about innovation and moving forward with gameplay, and they know that taking a step backwards by going back to the inferior button controls would be a bad move in terms of potential of and financial gain. SS percentage-wise is the best-selling Zelda title to date. There's no doubt the Wii MotionPlus is a major reason for this. The fact that this game was a swan song for the Wii makes this all the more significant. The motion controls opened up so many doors for the Zelda series, and closing those doors would just be stupid. The vast majority of fans like the motion controls and don't want Nintendo to leave them behind. And they won't. They're just going to find ways to improve them and, in turn, find ways for even more people to like them.

Depends on how you look at motion controls, actually. If you look at them as an improvement along the same lines control pads or shoulder buttons were, I can see how you'd favor keeping them because not doing it would be "going backwards". On the other hand, there is the "they're just an interesting alternative for devs to use if they want" way to look at them, which happens to be my point of view. I'd personally say they look like an interesting option to use if they saw it fit this time, but I fail to see a reason they should do it this time, unless Aonuma or whoever is in charge finds it appropriate.

Also, a good number of people seem to have had reasonable issues with the controllers in SS, and I've seen some cases to be convinced some people might not be able to play a game like that. Not to say the controls didn't work or that I didn't like them (I really did), but I've yet to see a real reason for them to keep them over other things SS brought like dashing (one of its real improvements over established formulas, if you ask me).

 

[Emma]

I was one of those that had difficulty playing due to medical issues. I pushed my way through finishing the game. But I have to say I don't have much desire to play though it again. It was too stressful on my body and I don't really like being in pain just playing a video game.
I really don't want to see motion controls again. Not like that anymore. They were nothing but a gimmick, and they weren't that innovative. Motion controls had already been used for almost a decade in PC gaming. And it had existed for a long time before that outside of gaming. It might be "cool" but it just isn't practical. I don't like Nintendo constantly being called "innovative". They're not. Most of what they do is just a gimmick to attract sales. And they never use cutting edge technology. Oh, but yeah they'd love to. They just can't. It's too expensive. And before you say "What about 3D like on the 3DS?", sorry, you're wrong there too. 3D like we've seen on the 3DS has existed for over 15 years. It simply was prohibitively expensive before now. The GameCube was actually designed with the exact same 3D capabilities as the 3DS. Originally they intended to have an add-on 3D screen. But it was just too expensive to market. Luigi's Mansion remained the only game that had the 3D programming in it.
So.. please... please stop using the "Nintendo's so innovative" line to justify everything Nintendo does. They are not innovative. At least technology-wise. The non-hardware aspects of their game development? Sure, it's reasonable there. But not with their hardware.

I am really hoping Nintendo learned their lessons with the Wii about taking gimmicks too far. With the 3DS, it seems like they have. Both the 3D feature and the motion controls are optional. Even the touch screen isn't the primary method of control anymore. That task has been handed down to the far more practical circle pad. The circle pad, it's not flashy, it's not fancy, but it gets the job done and it does it well. That's the kind of practicality I want to see in the Wii U and in the Wii U Zelda games. Something that makes it more accessible to all players and not just the perfect health ones that like gimmicks.

 

[JuicieJ]

Depends on how you look at motion controls, actually. If you look at them as an improvement along the same lines control pads or shoulder buttons were, I can see how you'd favor keeping them because not doing it would be "going backwards". On the other hand, there is the "they're just an interesting alternative for devs to use if they want" way to look at them, which happens to be my point of view. I'd personally say they look like an interesting option to use if they saw it fit this time, but I fail to see a reason they should do it this time, unless Aonuma or whoever is in charge finds it appropriate.

Also, a good number of people seem to have had reasonable issues with the controllers in SS, and I've seen some cases to be convinced some people might not be able to play a game like that. Not to say the controls didn't work or that I didn't like them (I really did), but I've yet to see a real reason for them to keep them over other things SS brought like dashing (one of its real improvements over established formulas, if you ask me).

Great post, Sink, but you're only proving what I'm saying. It's these kinds of statements that had Miyamoto saying what he did, because he wants EVERYONE to believe they're the right path for Zelda's future.

I was one of those that had difficulty playing due to medical issues. I pushed my way through finishing the game. But I have to say I don't have much desire to play though it again. It was too stressful on my body and I don't really like being in pain just playing a video game.
I really don't want to see motion controls again. Not like that anymore. They were nothing but a gimmick, and they weren't that innovative. Motion controls had already been used for almost a decade in PC gaming. And it had existed for a long time before that outside of gaming. It might be "cool" but it just isn't practical. I don't like Nintendo constantly being called "innovative". They're not. Most of what they do is just a gimmick to attract sales. And they never use cutting edge technology. Oh, but yeah they'd love to. They just can't. It's too expensive. And before you say "What about 3D like on the 3DS?", sorry, you're wrong there too. 3D like we've seen on the 3DS has existed for over 15 years. It simply was prohibitively expensive before now. The GameCube was actually designed with the exact same 3D capabilities as the 3DS. Originally they intended to have an add-on 3D screen. But it was just too expensive to market. Luigi's Mansion remained the only game that had the 3D programming in it.
So.. please... please stop using the "Nintendo's so innovative" line to justify everything Nintendo does. They are not innovative. At least technology-wise. The non-hardware aspects of their game development? Sure, it's reasonable there. But not with their hardware.

1.) SS's motion controls don't require much movement to use. They were designed so that young and old players alike could play them with ease. You were probably swinging harder than necessary.

2.) Motion controls existed, yes, but nothing like the Wii MotionPlus (that I'm aware of).

3.) Indeed, they're innovative with what they DO with their hardware, not the hardware itself.

 

[SinkingBadges]

Great post, Sink, but you're only proving what I'm saying. It's these kinds of statements that had Miyamoto saying what he did, because he wants EVERYONE to believe they're the right path for Zelda's future.

Um, none of what I said was really supposed to prove/disprove anything as much as adding some dimension and a personal take on what you said. Looks like a better overview of your statements and my take on them is necessary here.

Miyamoto and Aonuma are all about innovation and moving forward with gameplay, and they know that taking a step backwards by going back to the inferior button controls would be a bad move in terms of potential of and financial gain.

I can assure you, I'm certainly not proving any of this, nor did I intend to.

"I'd personally say they look like an interesting option to use if they saw it fit this time, but I fail to see a reason they should do it this time, unless Aonuma or whoever is in charge finds it appropriate."

I agree the motion controls brought something, but calling button based controls inferior... it's just off. That's why I put the "an interesting option" and "should", in itallics when referring to wether they should/should not stick to motion controllers. What I said there is: It would only be a good option if (and just IF, i.e. I don't see any other reason) they think it's the best idea to work with. Now, you seem to be suggesting that button controllers are "the past", but in all truth, motion controls are apparently more of an experiment now after reception for SS came in. Oooooor that's what I've read into developer statements as of late, and it also makes sense from a business perspective.

SS percentage-wise is the best-selling Zelda title to date. There's no doubt the Wii MotionPlus is a major reason for this.

Also, I should mention that I've never heard of the WMP being a reason SS sold well. If anything, it would make more sense the other way around. It seemed to me like they depended more on the graphic style, story, etc more than the controllers as their selling points. Not saying WMP wasn't a selling point, it just wasn't the most prominent one from what I saw.

The fact that this game was a swan song for the Wii makes this all the more significant. The motion controls opened up so many doors for the Zelda series, and closing those doors would just be stupid.

Hm, I think it's already clear what I thought the real improvements were. Dashing, real time item change and stuff like that looked like some of the best things SS did to me. To give the motion controllers something, though, adding more variety to bomb throws was also a pretty cool idea that motion controls made easier (that said, I don't think finding another way to do that would be hard).

The vast majority of fans like the motion controls and don't want Nintendo to leave them behind. And they won't. They're just going to find ways to improve them and, in turn, find ways for even more people to like them.

I could just as easily say they won't keep the controllers, but honestly, we'd both be talking way too soon.

 

[Mariley]

Perhaps it is just me, but I interpreted Miyamoto's quote as saying they want to fix what didn't work well with the motion controls in SS and find better ways to implement motion control in general. Of course, they could always be considering using a more traditional control scheme with the GamePad Pro for the next Zelda. While I thought the motion controls worked quite well overall in SS, I still prefer a traditional controller in my hand.

I honestly don't believe Nintendo is going to abandon motion controls for the WiiU, or even give players the option to use the GamePad Pro on a lot of the games (especially first party titles like Mario & Zelda) They have so many Wii's out there, that just going back to using a regular controller like the other consoles would seem too much like admitting they made a mistake by going with motion control in the first place. While I would personally love for them to allow players to choose between the regular controller or motion controls, I don't see that as very realistic expectation.

Games have to be developed & designed with the control schemes in mind. I don't see all developers on the WiiU designing the games to work with both motion control & the GamePad. They are just too different.

 

[MW7]

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret Miyamoto's quote. I highly doubt they would abandon motion controls, but they also don't want to alienate people who can't use or don't enjoy motion controls. A while ago in an old thread I noted that it would have been possible (but complicated) to have allowed people to play Skyward Sword with a gamecube controller. For instance using the C stick could have been equivalent to the motion controls.

So I think they could add options for people who don't want to use motion controls. Personally though I just want to use the tablet controller for Zelda Wii U. Having a touch screen was really awesome with the ds Zeldas (I didn't like everything though like having to move with the stylus), and I'd really enjoy a console Zelda with a second screen for switching items quickly or marking a map among other things.

 

[winterbbytumblr]

I don't think he's talking about eliminating motion controls, just adjusting them to make them perfect.
However, yes, I absolutely prefer classic controls, though the motion controls were amazing and I did love them.