MAJOR THEORY: The Hylian royal family stooped so low as to experiment with magic to create armies of undead monsters and invisible monsters!!

[Kat23]

The Hylian royal family stooped so low as to experiment with magic to create armies of undead monsters and invisible monsters!!

I made a couple of posts on this forums this year, talking about the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family against the various peoples of Hyrule, this is one of the major ones:

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/forum/...d-reading-and-global-mass-surveillance.75372/

And I also posted a playlist which is a big non-exhaustive list of the atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family against the various peoples of Hyrule:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzG_3q50DuPkRcOm-vIy4hvnUyvKV5O-t

The Hylian royal family of Hyrule are NOT the "good guys" that some people think they are...

Now I'm going to show you folks a couple videos and show you the evidence that the Hylian royal family stooped so low as to experiment with magic to create armies of undead monsters and invisible monsters. When you put all the pieces of the puzzle back together and look at the evidence, you cannot deny that this is what the Hylian royal family tried to do. I can't believe that I didn't notice some of those things sooner, I played this game countless times for well over a decade years ago, I should have made the connections, but I didn't. But they are definitely there and it all adds up.

First of all I just want to clarify something. I shouldn't even bring this up because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand but some people have been misled into believing something that isn't true and I think I need to point out why it isn't true:

Somewhere in at least one of those videos that I'm about to show you, someone makes the claim that "Zelda is the "reincarnation" of Hylia" while showing pictures of Zelda Princesses that are not the first Zelda from Skyward Sword and this is WRONG and NON-FACTUAL. Only the FIRST Zelda is the INCARNATION (NOT re-incarnation) of Hylia, all the other Zelda Princesses after that are just mere mortal descendants with a couple special powers that they inherited from their ancestor because apparently they can be passed down through genetics, they are her descendants, they are NOT her. But some dumb people still believe that all Zelda Princesses are Hylia or "reincarnations" of Hylia. There is no "reincarnation", there is only one INCARNATION. After the incarnation died 'cause she became a mortal, there was no "reincarnations", only blood descendants and that's it. Link doesn't "reincarnate" either. As for Ganondorf, the curse is an endless cycle of resurrection NOT "reincarnation". Ganondorf is always resurrected, never "reincarnated". He never come back as a baby with no memory of who he is nor does he ever mentionned imaginary so-called past lives. Same thing for Link and Zelda, minus the endless cycle of resurrections. It's a different Link and a different Zelda every time, not the same Link and the same Zelda in another body. And even most Japanese and Asian people today are too smart and mature and educated to believe in this "reincarnation" nonsense.

But you know what? It's dumb enough believing in "reincarnation" (there's a crap ton of evidence against "reincarnation" and it's a very harmful belief about victim-blaming the victims of horrific tragedies by telling him that if bad, horrible things happen to them then they must have been asking for it or done something to provoke it because they must have done something in their so-called past-lives to deserve it even though they can't recall or remember any of it and can't comprehend why they're being punished for something that they might or might not have done hundreds of years ago and something they can't even remember and why they can't start their lives with a clean slate, it places the blame for horrific crimes and atrocities on the victims instead of the perpetrators and there's the absurd claim that people can be "reincarnated" as bacteria, cockroaches, rodents, dogs, birds, etc, when we damn well know that animals are NOT "reincarnated" humans and that this is blatantly absurd), but you know what is even more ridiculous than belief in "reincarnation"? This absurd idea that one can "reincarnate" as their own descendants as some dumb people seem to think is the case for Zelda is utterly ridiculous. So let me get this straight, Zelda "reincarnate" as her own descendants so she's her own daughter, her own granddaughter and her own great-granddaughter? See how ridiculous it gets?

And don't even get me started on the ridiculous Zelink crap (OMG, I think I'm gonna be sick!) about how supposedly the first Link married the first Zelda and had babies with her and ruled with her and all kinds of ridiculous crap like that (no the person didn't bring this up in the video, I'm just clarifying some stuff). There is no evidence that Link was ever royalty or became one of the royals or that any of the Zelda Princesses descended from the first Zelda (Hylia) were the first Link's daughters or something. There is no evidence for any of that. And Nintendo even said a couple times that Zelink isn't canon and that they don't support this ship because they don't want to be dragged into flame wars. I wish people would stop stating Zelink as fact in their freaking videos and every time they bring it up I feel like I'm going to be violently ill (as if Link should get together with one of those evil Hylian royals). So yeah. Also, the Japanese version of BOTW (the english version does a terrible job of translating this) says something about the curse during the final battle and uses the word "revival" instead of "reincarnation". Revival means resurrection NOT "reincarnation".

Okay, moving on!

Here are the videos I want to show you and then we can discuss...

Let's start with these:

Spoiler

I disagree with people who say that Ganondorf is the source of the Redeads, they were found on the child timeline in the royal family's tomb way before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm, meaning that they existed long before the war and they exist in parallel universes like Termina and other such places, Ganondorf has nothing to do with their existence, he did not create them. The royal family created the Redeads and is behind their existence. As for the ones found in Termina, either the Hylian royals travel to that parallel universe and experimented there as well or someone in that parallel universe must have replicated the same type of experiences. Please note that gossip stones exist in Termina as well. Also, areas where Redeads are found in the Kakariko village catacombs have other undead monsters besides Redeads like Deadhands and Gibdos (there's a room full of Gibdos and coffins in the Well of Three Features, more evil necromantic experiments by the Hylian royal family) which were there way before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm, this whole place was crawling with undead creatures way before Link opened the door of time, obviously.

Also, in the royal family's tomb in OOT there are pools of green glowing liquid with skeletal hands sticking out of them. You see the exact same thing in the Shadow Temple (especially in the boss room and we know that Bongo-Bongo is an undead creature, a shadow beast, and as explained in Twilight Princess a shadow beast is a Twili who was deprived from the light of the Sols, so Bongo-Bongo might have been one of the Sheikah who eventually became a Twili but instead of being sealed in the Twilight Realm maybe because the mirror had not been constructed yet or wasn't active back then, he was clearly executed because his hands and head are severed from his body and turned into an undead before being sealed in the well, and he isn't "evil" like the Hylian royals would have us believed because after breaking free from the well he only attacked one person, a member of the evil Hylian royal family responsible for his suffering, he didn't attack or harmed or killed anyone else, he went straight to the Shadow Temple where he resumed attempting to exposed the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family (warning Link that "Here lies Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred", but Link who is blindly loyal to the establishment/Hylian royal family refuse to listen and try to murder Bongo-Bongo which force him to attack in self-defense, this tragedy didn't have to happen if Link had been reasonable enough to listen to Bongo-Bongo and look at the evidence proving that the Hylian royal family has committed numerous atrocities and evils against so many people in Hyrule merely for questioning or disagreeing with the Hylian royals on anything), yes, those same pools of glowing green liquids with skeletal hands sticking out of them are found in the Shadow Temple and the Well of Three Features, two places that have the Hylian royal crest plastered on them as you can see towards the end of this video:



And there's this:



And you can't progress in the Shadow Temple or the Well of Three Features without the extra secret melody passed down by the royal family for generations. The Hylian royal family's crest is found in every spot where you have to play this melody, a few examples would be on the boat in the Shadow Temple and on the spot where there's a fountain in the shape of a scary monster to change the water levels in the Well of Three Features. The Hylian royal family knew all about that place. The Hylian royal family's crest is also found in the Arbiter's Ground in Twilight Princess where you also find Redeads. Just because we don't see a pool of glowing green liquid there doesn't mean there isn't one, there might be one in an area of the Arbiter's Grounds that we can't access in the game. There's always areas that we can't access in a game and I've always got the feeling that we never get to explore a whole temple, just the parts that we have to complete to get to the boss and that there are blocked off areas that we'll never get to explore. We even see unexplored floating islands that we can't access around the Palace of Twilight. Also, there's something really strange about the Twilight Princess Redeads. Redeads are NEVER mummified, although the Redeads in Wind Waker are wearing gloves for some reason (maybe the Hylian royal family wanted to used THOSE Redeads to manipulate dangerous substances for experimentation).

Ocarina of Time:

Majora's Mask:

Wind Waker:

And now look at the ones from Twilight Princess:

It's like the people at Nintendo who made those Twilight Princess Redeads got confused and got Redeads mixed up with Gibdos (they are NOT the same thing), either that or the folks at Nintendo had the Twilight Princess Redeads mummified for a very specific purpose. The Twilight Princess Redeads are mumiffied. And they are carrying weapons this time around. They never had weapons in OOT, MM and WW or any of the other games. Also, they are wearing old and tattered pieces of armor. Wait a minute! Pieces of armor and weapons? Bingo! Pieces of armor and weapons! Redeads wearing pieces of armor and carrying weapons in a place filled with armies of undeads enemies (Redeads, Stalkins, Staltroops, Ghoul Rats, etc) and where the Hylian royal family's crest is plastered on the entrance. See now? The Hylian royal family was experimenting with pockets of magic and creating armies of undead enemies, undead enemies who can wear armors and used weapons and even invisible undead enemies like the Ghoul Rats and other such monstruosities.

See a list of the undead enemies found in the Arbiter's Grounds right here:

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Arbiter's_Grounds

Here's a video on the Hylian royal family's connection to Arbiter's Grounds:



Also, this page here says:

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/ReDead#Twilight_Princess

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/ReDead_Knight

"The ReDeads in Twilight Princess are known as ReDead Knights and have many significant differences from that of standard ReDeads. They are MUCH LARGER than ReDeads in any other games. Rather than attacking by jumping on Link's back, this variety screams at him, then HITS HIM WITH A LARGE SWORD, DEALING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF DAMAGE IN ONE HIT."

By the time of Twilight Princess, the Redeads are sentient and intelligent enough to wear pieces of armor and use weapons, which means they are an advanced form of Redeads. The Hylian royals created an advance form of Redeads (and also I bet they were also behind the creation of the DeadHand found in the Shadow Temple). Also, the Hylian royal family's crest is plastered over the entrance of the Arbiter's Grounds and above the locked doors in the dungeon, at least in the first room above the locked door. Someone who made a video on Youtube think that the Hylian royal family's tomb is not even a tomb or is more than a tomb and that it's entrace is sealed and accessible only to those who know of Zelda's Lulaby because the first room of the tomb at least was in fact a secret experimentation lab and the Hylian royal family wanted to keep this hidden from the public and that the reason they were experimenting with pockets of magic to create armies of undead monsters, their goal was in fact Hylian supremacy, keeping themselves in the seat of power and world domination, controlling the whole continent and eventually the rest of the world, because the Hylian royal family has always tried to implement a global Hylian monarchy, they even had forced reunification and stuff like that, anyone who resisted them was killed or disappeared in one of the torture and execution chambers. And of course, if you read my post in the very first link above, you'll see that the Hylian royal family used the gossip stones to practice illegal mass mind reading and illegal mass surveillance and that they punished and killed people for "thought crimes".

And here's evidence that the Hylian royal family was experimenting with creating armies of invisible monsters (besides the invisible undead Ghoul Rats found in the Arbiter's Grounds and maybe Bongo-Bongo himself had been experimented upon and that's why he could become invisible):



In TOTK, the path to the Shadow Temple is blocked or no longer there obviously, but there's a well where the walls are covered in splatters of blood, a reference to the Hylian royal family's torture and killing chamber:



And the Hylian royal family has experimented on OOT Link, torturing him in the worse ways imaginable, no wonder the Hero's Shade is so bitter and disillusioned in Twilight Princess (also I wouldn't be surprised if Snowpeak Mansion was a place where the same kind of experiments took place, after all it has giant armors made for monsters with holes in the back for a tail like the one worn by the mini-boss and it has weapons and canons and that's probably one of those places where the Hylian royal family experimented, created monsters and trained them to use weapons because they were creating armies of monsters to reach their goal of Hylian supremacy, also there's a painting of the City in the Sky in Snowpeak Mansion and besides Link only the Hylian royal family knew about the existence of the City in the Sky and the royal family's messengers living there, only the Hylian royal family and a couple Sheikah blindly loyal to them knew about this place, also the coat of arms or crest found in Snowpeak Mansion, the one with the crossed swords is also seen in Hyrule castle, so obviously the Hylian royals were behind the whole Snowpeak Mansion thing and the activities going on inside, also there's a cave near Snowpeak Mansion with ice blocks, the Snowpeak Mansion coat of arms and the Hylian royal family's crest and it's full of weapons and other tools and stuff):

Spoiler

Isn't that bone-chilling? I wonder if the OOT era Zora were aware that the Hylian royal family was conducting experiments in that cave to create armies of invisible monsters and maybe even use invisible monsters to spy on the Zora and the other people of Hyrule, kinda like what the Hylian royal family did with the gossip stones, minus the mind reading ability. Maybe they're trying to create a more sentient and intelligent advanced form of the four invisible Skulltulas like they did with the Redeads. This is creepy AF and bone-chilling, man. That cave in Zora's Domain with its invisble Skullatulas and its ladder makes my skin crawl just like the royal family's tomb, the Shadow Temple, the Well of Three Features, the Arbiter's Grounds, and that giant roman or greek style colloseum in BOTW. What in the world did the Hylian royals do with that giant colloseum? They most propably locked up people who questioned them, disagree with them or challenged them in anyway, forced them to harm and killed each other in gladiator style fights for their own sadistic pleasure and then threw them to the Lynels to be devoured, after being starved for days or weeks those Lynels would eat anything. I wouldn't be surprised. Is there any evil that the Hylian royal family wouldn't stoop to?

And then some people look at me like I'm crazy when I point out all the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family (and I back up my claims with in-game evidence) and point out that Ganondorf had very good reasons to hate the evil and tyrannical Hylian royal family, and not just because of the atrocities, harm and death and destruction that the Hylian royals have committed against his people for generations, but also because anyone who would dare to question, disagree with or challenge the tyrannical Hylian royals was tortured and murdered or disappeared somewhere and never seen again, and anyone in their right mind would revolt like Ganondorf did, just like the Jews revolted against the Nazis and just like black people revolted against the white supremacists and just like the peasants revolted against Stalin, etc. Ganondorf isn't all bad and the Hylian royal family certainly isn't all good. The Hylian royals have caused an untold amount of suffering and violently punished any dissent. Just like Donald Trump, they won't take no for an answer and they can't take any criticism, because psychos can't take any critism nor can they take no for an answer.

There's also this video, and those two people have a lot of good points about the Hylian royal family's necromantic experiments, except I don't think those pockets of magic are necessarily "Farorian magic" or "Sol magic" or something, nor do I think it has anything to do with the myth of the three golden goddesses, although they have some good points I don't agree with everything said there, those people seem to blame it all on the Sheikah when in fact most Sheikah are victims of the Hylian royal family and most of them disagreed with the Hylian royal family which is why they were wiped out and Impa was the last one in OOT and I also think the person who said "How dared they? They were chosen by the goddess Hylia but they were using some kind of demonic magic." is rather naive, I don't think Hylia is any less bad than the Hylian royal family and I think neither of them are "good guys".

Here's two videos you should watch (if you can't understand half of what's been said in the first one because of that person's thick accent, turn on the captions):

Spoiler

Or to be more clear and more specific, I think that this "goddess" Hylia if she really is a deity because she might have lied about that to get worship and to manipulate and control people more easily (the first Hylian Princess might just have been an insane cult leader), is really no better than the Hylian royal family. She has seen and even overseen the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family of Hyrule (watch the playlist I posted abive for a big non-exhaustive list of the atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family) and she was totally okay with it. She did jack freaking squat and she even let the Hylian royal family drive Ganondorf's people into a ghetto in the deadly desert where the wind brought nothing but death and watched as a child Ganondorf raged and cry as a little child watching his people suffer and die in this horrible desert that killed so many of them and she did nothing, jack freaking squat.

Speaking of that, speaking of the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family, as well as their lies, their omissions, their dissimulation, I recently wrote this fic where I exposed the Hylian royal family for what they really are and what they really did, brought the curse to an end, and vindicated the Gerudo, Ganondorf and all the people of Hyrule that have been wronged, harmed or slaughtered by the Hylian royal family over several generations, and I even gave Link the worthy spouse, the daughter and the love that he deserves, now that's what I call a happy ending:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/49387771

Concerning the Hylian royal family's tomb, the Shadow Temple and the Well of Three Features, in each and every one of those locations, there are always Redeads hanging around those pools of green glowing liquid, except Newbornkilik thought it was just "toxic liquids" or "toxic waste". But it's far worse than that. That stuff is probably a pocket of some kind of magic and it was obviously used to create those Redeads. It is important to note that the Redeads are creations of the Hylian royal family. They were in the royal family's tomb and were there long before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. Also, a stone tablet on the wall talk about a melody that the royal family had some people composed and it allows one to petrify and control the undead (the Redeads) to stop them from attacking/revolting. In the royal family's tombs there are skeletons and skulls all over the place in the first room and they are not in coffins but instead they're scattered all over the room as if they had been brought there to be experimented on. There are green fumes emanating from the pools of glowing green liquid and green is the color of magic, like Link's magic meter and the green potion. In the video entitled "The curious case of Kakariko village", it is said that green potion might be the result of experiments to render this substance found in the pools edible for human consumption so it can restore magic power, which would explain why it replenish the magic meter. It's possible that the same kind of green substance is used for the stamina potion, but that might be a different green substance entirely.

If you want to know more about the Shadow Temple, the Well of Three Features and the atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family, watch the rest of my playlist.

Btw, I don't play Zelda games anymore and I much prefer reading (and sometimes writing) Zelda fanfictions (fanfictions featuring a Link who has enough courage to question, think for himself, challenge the establishment, walk away from the Hylian royal family, who doesn't tolerate the Hylian royals' atrocities. injustices, and indoctrination, etc, you get that in the fanfictions, but you never get that in the games because in the games Link practices blind loyalty and blind obedience to the establishment/Hylian royal family, the fanfictions are far better and far more satisfying to me than the games and it's the reason why I much prefer fanfiction Link over video game Link. Video games too should teach people to question and challenge the establishment, not blindly catter to it like video game Link does, after seeing all those videos on Youtube, I know I'm not the only one who think this way, far from it.

I rarely post in the Zelda section of the forums, I mostly post in the "general chit-chat" section or the "mature discussion" section of the ZD forums, I like it here and everyone is so sympathetic and kind. But I don't post much in the "Zelda forums" section of the ZD forums, there are other games that I love more than Zelda now, like Animal Crossing and Pokemon.

(PS) (The Hylian royal family either left the Redeads in their royal tomb to force them to guard it or they sealed the tomb to keep the Redeads hidden from the public. Please note that the Shadow Temple was also sealed and the Well of Three Features as well. Only the Arbiter's Grounds wasn't and the Hylian royals probably thought that no one would venture in the deadly desert after the Gerudo were all gone. The Hylians royals went out of their way to hide their secret experiments from the public because they knew it would paint them in a negative light and since they dream of reaching their goal of Hylian supremacy, they have to keep the public ignorant about their horrible experiments.)

 

[Zettafleya]

Redeads could be made through magic or some sort by the Royal Family or the Sheika, but perhaps they can also exist naturally or made through evil methods.

Maybe would explain why they are in the Royal Family tomb, the well, and the Shadow Temple. Maybe they are the remains of others, or maybe they were placed there as guards or something.

But they are also present in the destroyed castle town, so maybe there are other methods to making them.

 

[Kat23]

Redeads could be made through magic or some sort by the Royal Family or the Sheikah, but perhaps they can also exist naturally or made through evil methods.

Maybe would explain why they are in the Royal Family tomb, the well, and the Shadow Temple. Maybe they are the remains of others, or maybe they were placed there as guards or something.

But they are also present in the destroyed castle town, so maybe there are other methods to making them.

The Redeads don't exist naturally, there is nothing nautural about zombies and necromancy, it is supernatural not natural. Redeads are people raised from the dead as zombies/undead and Redeads are made with magic, Redeads like your typical zombies make horrific zombie moaning sounds when they're not screaming to paralyze their victims, and just like your typical zombies they latch unto their victims and tried to bite into their skulls to eat their victims' brains, the horrific magic spell/ritual used to create Redeads probably kills the victims twice before turning him or her into a Redead, which is probably why they are called Redeads, Re-dead as in DEAD AGAIN or DYING TWICE.

The Hylian royal family have committed so many atrocities and horrific experiments. And yet, some people are still dumb enough to believe that the Hylian royal family are the "good guys".

"Better to get hurt by the truth than comforted with a lie." -- Khaled Hosseini.

“History is a set of lies agreed upon.” - Napoleon Bonaparte.

“History is Written by Victors.” The quote gets attributed to Winston Churchill, but its origins are unknown. It implies that history is not grounded in facts, rather it's the winners' interpretation of them that prevails (that's why no one should trust what the Hylian royal family says and there's a crap ton of in-game evidence that they are NOT the "good guys").

Yes, history is a set of lies agreed upon.

Here's just a couple of examples of that:

The American Civil War, which wasn’t a civil war, and thus is a lie in its very name. Nor was it a “War between the States,” since the invading entity didn’t claim to be states, but a single nation that owned all of them. So it was just a war of treachery, conquest and deceit.

Few now deny that each state ratified the US Constitution as a sovereign nation, as an act of its respective People; and only a charlatan would claim that they intentionally to be such by doing so (and I know this because dozens of charlatans have done so); but rather, the constitutional USA was intended to be a voluntary Union like the EU.

Therefore an invasion based on such a claim, was simply an act of conquest by a made-up "imperial" pseudo-state.

However while it was wrong for Japan, Germany and Iraq to conquer other nations by force, apparently it’s USA-okay to call it a “civil war” as long as you win— not only after the fact, but retroactively changing history as it actually happened.

Lies can’t get any bigger than that; and as a result, the American people no longer rule themselves, but rather it’s done by political racket which give the People the illusion of choice through token franchise, but while the federal government has final authority.

Thus we can see that history is a set of lies agreed upon. And not just in our world, but in Hyrule as well. The evil and tyrannical Hylian supremacist royal family of Hyrule rewrite history whenever it's convenient for them to do so and they call the shots as to what is taught in the schools in terms of history, anyone who is caught attempting to expose the lies is either killed or disappeared somewhere to be used as a lab rat in horrific experiments...

I strongly recommend you watch those two videos:





Take care,

Kat.

 

[Chevywolf30]

The American Civil War, which wasn’t a civil war, and thus is a lie in its very name. Nor was it a “War between the States,” since the invading entity didn’t claim to be states, but a single nation that owned all of them. So it was just a war of treachery, conquest and deceit.

Few now deny that each state ratified the US Constitution as a sovereign nation, as an act of its respective People; and only a charlatan would claim that they intentionally to be such by doing so (and I know this because dozens of charlatans have done so); but rather, the constitutional USA was intended to be a voluntary Union like the EU.

Therefore an invasion based on such a claim, was simply an act of conquest by a made-up "imperial" pseudo-state.

This feels very pro-Confederate.

 

[GZ Zelda]

However while it was wrong for Japan, Germany and Iraq to conquer other nations by force, apparently it’s USA-okay to call it a “civil war” as long as you win— not only after the fact, but retroactively changing history as it actually happened.

Wtf, this isn't...I don't...what even...oh my god I'm just gonna respond to the OP oh my god jesus christ oy yoi yoi!

Somewhere in at least one of those videos that I'm about to show you, someone makes the claim that "Zelda is the "reincarnation" of Hylia" while showing pictures of Zelda Princesses that are not the first Zelda from Skyward Sword and this is WRONG and NON-FACTUAL. Only the FIRST Zelda is the INCARNATION (NOT re-incarnation) of Hylia, all the other Zelda Princesses after that are just mere mortal descendants with a couple special powers that they inherited from their ancestor because apparently they can be passed down through genetics, they are her descendants, they are NOT her. But some dumb people still believe that all Zelda Princesses are Hylia or "reincarnations" of Hylia. There is no "reincarnation", there is only one INCARNATION. After the incarnation died 'cause she became a mortal, there was no "reincarnations", only blood descendants and that's it. Link doesn't "reincarnate" either. As for Ganondorf, the curse is an endless cycle of resurrection NOT "reincarnation". Ganondorf is always resurrected, never "reincarnated". He never come back as a baby with no memory of who he is nor does he ever mentionned imaginary so-called past lives. Same thing for Link and Zelda, minus the endless cycle of resurrections. It's a different Link and a different Zelda every time, not the same Link and the same Zelda in another body. And even most Japanese and Asian people today are too smart and mature and educated to believe in this "reincarnation" nonsense.

They all have the blood of the goddess though, yes? Cuz they all descend from that first Zelda?

The Hylian royal family was experimenting with pockets of magic and creating armies of undead enemies, undead enemies who can wear armors and used weapons and even invisible undead enemies like the Ghoul Rats and other such monstruosities.

Very well-layed out, super good evidence, the Hylian royal family made the undead warriors in Hyrule(I would argue also in Termina) through torture and magic. They and the Sheikah created a surveillance state and did normal tyrannical monarchy things, bad bad bad.

In TOTK, the path to the Shadow Temple is blocked or no longer there obviously, but there's a well where the walls are covered in splatters of blood, a reference to the Hylian royal family's torture and killing chamber:

Holy ****, great find.

And the Hylian royal family has experimented on OOT Link, torturing him in the worse ways imaginable, no wonder the Hero's Shade is so bitter and disillusioned in Twilight Princess (also I wouldn't be surprised if Snowpeak Mansion was a place where the same kind of experiments took place, after all it has giant armors made for monsters with holes in the back for a tail like the one worn by the mini-boss and it has weapons and canons and that's probably one of those places where the Hylian royal family experimented, created monsters and trained them to use weapons because they were creating armies of monsters to reach their goal of Hylian supremacy, also there's a painting of the City in the Sky in Snowpeak Mansion and besides Link only the Hylian royal family knew about the existence of the City in the Sky and the royal family's messengers living there, only the Hylian royal family and a couple Sheikah blindly loyal to them knew about this place, also the coat of arms or crest found in Snowpeak Mansion, the one with the crossed swords is also seen in Hyrule castle, so obviously the Hylian royals were behind the whole Snowpeak Mansion thing and the activities going on inside, also there's a cave near Snowpeak Mansion with ice blocks, the Snowpeak Mansion coat of arms and the Hylian royal family's crest and it's full of weapons and other tools and stuff):

I don't think I buy that Link was tortured, though I do agree with Zeltik's theory that the Snowpeak Ruins were used for experiments. We never saw OoT Link older than 16, I think he probably just grew.

And then some people look at me like I'm crazy when I point out all the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family (and I back up my claims with in-game evidence) and point out that Ganondorf had very good reasons to hate the evil and tyrannical Hylian royal family, and not just because of the atrocities, harm and death and destruction that the Hylian royals have committed against his people for generations, but also because anyone who would dare to question, disagree with or challenge the tyrannical Hylian royals was tortured and murdered or disappeared somewhere and never seen again, and anyone in their right mind would revolt like Ganondorf did, just like the Jews revolted against the Nazis and just like black people revolted against the white supremacists and just like the peasants revolted against Stalin, etc. Ganondorf isn't all bad and the Hylian royal family certainly isn't all good. The Hylian royals have caused an untold amount of suffering and violently punished any dissent. Just like Donald Trump, they won't take no for an answer and they can't take any criticism, because psychos can't take any critism nor can they take no for an answer.

Kat wtf, like, just optically, don't compare Ganondorf to jews in the Holocaust. Like, I get your point but like nononononono.

Or to be more clear and more specific, I think that this "goddess" Hylia if she really is a deity because she might have lied about that to get worship and to manipulate and control people more easily (the first Hylian Princess might just have been an insane cult leader), is really no better than the Hylian royal family. She has seen and even overseen the horrific atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family of Hyrule (watch the playlist I posted abive for a big non-exhaustive list of the atrocities committed by the Hylian royal family) and she was totally okay with it. She did jack freaking squat and she even let the Hylian royal family drive Ganondorf's people into a ghetto in the deadly desert where the wind brought nothing but death and watched as a child Ganondorf raged and cry as a little child watching his people suffer and die in this horrible desert that killed so many of them and she did nothing, jack freaking squat.

Hylia isn't really interfering anymore by the looks of things, but I agree that the Hylian royal family are complacent, incompetent and borderline monarchically totalitarian, letting social unrest and political instability fester until the most psychopathic and charismatic fascistic leaders throw the entire kingdom into ruin. If we want to do genuine political analysis of the Zelda series, that's all to the good, but this framing doesn't have the nuance to do that. But I do appreciate the provocation: the good guys were the bad guys the whole time is always fun and subversive.

Btw, I don't play Zelda games anymore and I much prefer reading (and sometimes writing) Zelda fanfictions (fanfictions featuring a Link who has enough courage to question, think for himself, challenge the establishment, walk away from the Hylian royal family, who doesn't tolerate the Hylian royals' atrocities. injustices, and indoctrination, etc, you get that in the fanfictions, but you never get that in the games because in the games Link practices blind loyalty and blind obedience to the establishment/Hylian royal family, the fanfictions are far better and far more satisfying to me than the games and it's the reason why I much prefer fanfiction Link over video game Link. Video games too should teach people to question and challenge the establishment, not blindly catter to it like video game Link does, after seeing all those videos on Youtube, I know I'm not the only one who think this way, far from it.

The analysis required for this isn't really good for the theory section, but I recommend playing Zelda for the gameplay not the story. Link also doesn't follow the royal family in most games, he follows Zelda (who's usually like a kid or whatever). The "status quo" is broken in all games except ALttP (where the king is resurrected for no reason oh my god) and ST (where they build an identical kingdom to their flooded, under-the-sea one). Z1/Z2/ALttP/OoT/WW/TP/ST/BotW/TotK are all about Link and Zelda working to un-build the incompetent world that the royal family left them with (Harkinian letting his kingdom fall into complete ruin, the Prince being the worst, ALttP king letting Agahnim work for him, OoT king doing a bad civil war and then accepting a fealty kneel, Daphnes flooding his kingdom, TP king "executing" Ganondorf, ST king letting Cole do his thing, Rhoam being the worst to Zelda, Rauru let his wife die oh my god that's so his fault. Link (and Zelda) are the prime movers of these changes towards community (other than Legend and Spirits, where they just keep everything the same). I'd give video game Link a little bit more benefit of the doubt, though I understand why a fic Link that you can mold to your whims might be more narratively satisfying.

 

[Kat23]

This feels very pro-Confederate.

That's not the first time that I'm falsely accused of being "pro-confederate" and it won't be the last (just like the radical-Right falsely accused me and others who disagreed with them on their messed up Conservative ideology of being "commies"), so I've learned to just tell these people, "think whatever you want" and just move on. I don't let their false accusations and insults affect me anymore. Both parties, especially the extremists in those parties, are guilty of falsely accusing anyone and everyone who disagree with them on something of being one or more of those things; "a Nazi", "a commie", "a groomer", "a marxist", "a terrorist sympathizer" (the Right will accuse you of being a "terrorist sympathizer" if you support justice and equality for Palestinians and hold Israelis accountable for the apartheid and Palestinian genocide and if you demand justice and equality for Arab people and Muslims), "an internalized misogynist and woman-hater" (the radical-Left will call you that if you are a woman and call yourself an Egalitarian instead of a Feminist and if you support men and boys' rights as much as women and girls' rights because you care just as much about men and boys' issues as you do about women and girls' issues and care as much about injustices that men and boys face than you do about injustices that women and girls face, because that's what TRUE equality is about and you can't do otherwise if you care about your male relatives and friends), "mentally ill", "depraved", and so on and so forth, etc. The second someone accuse you of being "a nazi" or "a commie" or something like that they have lost the debate because that don't have valid arguments and they resort to vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition (that's rather childish too, don't you think?). That's also what Donald Trump and George W. Bush do. The radicals in both parties have far more in common than they're willing to admit.

Btw, here's something else that bothers me about the Legend of Zelda. Nintendo's treatment of albino people in the Legend of Zelda and their stereotype of the albino "villain" or an albinos being depicted as a villain (which to me reeks of victim-blaming).



Vaati is not a "villain", he's a victim. He's very different from the other Picori and has very pale skin, red eyes, and purplish white hair. He's obviously an albino Picori. He was abused, bullied, persecuted, targeted for violence, ostracized, shunned and marginalized (and probably hunted down for his body parts whom some people assumed had magical properties so his life was most probably constantly in danger) by his peers growing up and one day he snapped because he couldn't take it anymore and no matter what he said or did it was never good enough for anyone so he decided that he was going to steal the hat and better his lot in life and he wanted to punish people for the cruelty, sadism, hate, violence, exclusion and discrimination that he experienced at their hands for years for being born an albinos through no choice or fault of his own. The world was cruelly unfair to members of marginalized groups like him and he wanted to make it more fair.

Here's a couple examples of how albino people are treated in our world and the horrors and atrocities they face everyday of their lives just for having been born different through no choice or fault of their own and this is just a few examples, a non-exhaustive list:

Spoiler

https://www.lifehack.org/articles/c...ly-people-with-albinism-would-understand.html

https://obscured.sg/2022/02/08/abusive-treatment-of-albino-people/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/horror-albino-children-hunted-body-9652602

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_people_with_albinism

https://albinismumbrella.org/2022/06/30/action-for-torture-against-persons-with-albinism/

https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/groups/University Honors Program/Journals_two/17_nebre.pdf

https://theconversation.com/taunts-...en-with-albinism-from-tanzanian-schools-63559

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/02/09/it-felt-punishment-growing-albinism-tanzania

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/02/1032271

https://www.omct.org/en/resources/s...-working-on-albinism-must-be-better-protected

https://www.ijern.com/journal/June-2014/25.pdf

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/albinism-killings-malawi-amnesty-b1798472.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...illed-in-record-numbers-for-their-body-parts/

https://www.ohchr.org/en/stories/20...e-albinism-are-hate-crimes-un-albinism-expert

Also, if you have read the Minish Cap manga, you should definitely read this 12 chapters long story (the author's explanations about Vaati's situation and past and origins and Vaati's connection to the Wind Tribe as the Wind Mage, she explains it so much better than I do, this story is a gem and I highly recommend it):

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3259093/1/The-Minish-Magician

If you haven't read the Minish Cap manga, you should read that first before you read "The Minish Magician".

In the manga, the author gave Vaati a redemption arc towards the end of the manga, which to me makes the manga flat out superior to Nintendo's game that not only deny Vaati a redemption arc and push the stereotype of the albino "villain" or an albinos being depicted as a villain (which to me reeks of victim-blaming) but also portray him as an unredeemable "villain". And it's funny how the the evil people who abused, bullied, persecuted, targeted for violence, ostracized, shunned and marginalized Vaati for his being born different through no choice of their own are never held accountable while the video game portrays the albino victim as a "bad guy", turn him into some kind of monstruosity with a giant eyeball (albino people are often depicted as "villains" but also as "monstruosities" in entertainment and the Minish Cap video game also spread that kind of dehumanizing depiction of albino people) and then had him brutally murdered by a "hero" who splitted himself into four versions of himself.

There are even moments in the game where it's like Nintendo is almost trying to get us to believe that Vaati was just "inherently bad" and despite all the injustices he's experienced they hardly humanized him in the game as a person with feelings of hurt, anger and anguish, a member of a marginalized group who just always wanted acceptance, love and approval from his peers from early childhood and never received any of that as a child nor as a teen and in the video game we're led to believe that he'll never get any of that as an adult either. The manga is flat out superior to the video game. And EternalFluffy's "The Minish Magician" fic is a sequel to the manga and really worth the read.

Also, as some other people have pointed out on other websites (and that's just one of many interesting conversations I've seen on this topic):

(Quote) "I love your hcs, especially since I share many of them. I hc Vaati as having albinism (white fur, red eyes) and seeing how albinism was seen as a "punishment from God" or a "mark of the devil" and how people with albinism were often killed at birth or abandoned, and even today are still persecuted and killed for their body parts, it can fully well be he was treated badly. Especially if we consider that, in universe, red eyes are (nearly?) only seen in monsters. So yes, an albino baby suddenly appearing in the village could make people suspicious. Children are cruel, too.

I also hc Ezlo as a strict teacher when Vaati needed a loving parent (because what child doesn't?) and thus emotionally and physically neglected Vaati. Not because he didn't like him or whatever, but bc he did what he thought was best. I hc Ezlo as not being a very touchy-feely person in general and thus Vaati is touch-starved (which can lead to aggressive behavior, among other things) and with Ezlo maybe mimicking his own teacher's style there is little of 'Well done!'/'Good work!' and very little of 'I'm proud of you.' but more of 'Well, that could be worded better'/'You should change that'/'Rewrite it'/etc bc he thinks criticism is how you best learn, forgetting that he (most likely) had his family and friends to meet his emotional needs and praise him while Vaati (most likely) has only him.

Ezlo gives back a graded paper and says: "There were a few typos and once sentence that didn't make much sense."
Ezlo means: "I found nothing else wrong in there, you can be proud of yourself, well done!"
Vaati hears: "Can't you do anything right? Failure."
(He does want to show off to Ezlo after all)

That all feeds into the 'They'll see, I'll be the best ever and then no one will dare to speak badly to me' kinda thing." (Unquote)

(Quote "((Hell YES I HC that too just in my stories some of the disabilities that come along with albinism (such as bad eyesight and sensitive skin) were just tedious to write into. Besides he seems to have a normal eyesight from what I see. But from the appearance alone, yes definitely!

Oh the Ezlo thing too definitely! I can totally subscribe to all you have said! Right now I have started to work on a longer comic featuring Vaatis past (still in scripting stage) and it's literally all about what you have said with feeling neglected and all that. So I am happy to have commonly shared HCs! Also I can see Ezlo accidentally humiliating Vaati with his naturally harsh behaviour and while this is Ezlo's weird way to show that he cares Vaati takes it as an insult.))" (Unquote)

(Quote) "Well, I hc Vaati as having crazy migraines due to albinism. My girlfriend is photosensitive, so any bright light causes headaches, and that's where my idea comes from. Eyes without color don't shield from the sun (that's most likely where a lot of the eye damage comes from) and thus it's easy for people with albinism to get bad headaches. Add to that the sudden surge of magic and we get hella back migraines. That's also how I excuse the whole "I'm searching for the Light Force which was given to the humans by the Minish. Now, girl with Light Magic, out of my way! I have to find the Light Force!" Yeah, not his finest moment...

I love people having the same hcs (I’ve been grinning the whole time I wrote this), and I would love to see your work! Could I ask you how old you hc Vaati?

With Ezlo, yeah, Link is already used to the gruff grandpa behavior due to Smith, who still makes it clear he cared deeply about Link. So he knows some people are just like that and knows how to deal with it. Some people can deal with such behavior and some can’t. I didn’t like my uncle when I was younger and loved my aunt, because my uncle is very harsh and I always thought he didn’t like me. But now I like my uncle more and had more problems with my aunt so…

But with Vaati, if he really didn’t have any other people who are close to him, and (as I hc) has an inferiority complex (because nothing says “I’m very secure with myself” like needing to be as powerful as a literal god and calling yourself a miniscule nothing) from which his superiority complex develops as a way of overcompensating, every time Ezlo, his only real social partner and guardian, says something harsh it cuts deep. He doesn’t know that some people are just like that and that they show affection in that way (like a parent yelling at you for drinking too much not because they hate you but because you put yourself into danger and they love you), because there are no other people who he can really compare it to. And I hc him as a teen, so the teenage angst and overall teenagerness comes to that as well.

I do think he still wants to show Ezlo off, he wants to show how far he got, how great he is (“No matter what power you wield, you will never break it.”). Ezlo harshly puts him down (“I should never have created that cap. It only fueled your insane desires!”). In the Minish Cap video game Vaati could have easily killed them, I think, but he didn’t. I think he kinda couldn’t. He only really tries to kill them later in the other video game, especially after he lost his body and was basically a mad mind given form. I mean, his latest transformation doesn’t even have a gender anymore, it’s just an it.

And from that, my hc for later games come from. His plans to "marry" Zelda? He was just released from the sword and probably suffered from overstimulation and maybe thought it was a hallucination. (There is a great video from Philosophy Tube on YT about how easily solitary confinement can destroy someone’s mind in mere days or weeks, and Vaati was inside a sword for probably around a century at that point). He only knew she had something he wanted. I don’t think he really wanted to "marry" her, it was more of "I want her because she has something I want". He was resealed and later released by Shadow Link, created by Ganon to hinder the heroes, where he just kinda… flings them away in panic. His kidnapping of maidens? Well… there was something he wanted, and it had something to do with a young girl… possibly… maybe? Welp, better go get some maidens, we can figure out the pesky details later. Probably aren't important anyway.

In the game his mind is pretty much destroyed by the time FS+ roles around, which is why he was able to be killed then, so at least he was freed from eternal torture in a sword by death. Which makes it extra sad when you think that in the adult timeline, he is still there, somewhere under the sea.

And now I made myself cry…

Anyway, I wrote over a page in word now, so I’ll leave it at that, especially since I should be cleaning up now, otherwise I’ll never get ready before I have to leave for work…" (Unquote)

(Quote) "Out of all Vaati interpretations that are around I am in Team Superiority/Inferiority complex too. No matter what out of those two it is in the end, it's a fact for me that he tries to artificially raise his self-esteem/convince himself he is the greatest while deep down he believes the opposite.

I believe Vaati is 15-18 years old in human years (since noone knows how old a Picori can become). Apprenticeships in the human society are placed in that age and it would make no sense neither to human nor Picori to keep somebody as an apprentice when they have already reached the adult age." (Unquote)

(Quote) "No problem. Your HCs actully make sense, well I feel like they do. Because in the game you'll notice that Vaati is the only Minish with very pale skin, purplish white hair and red eyes so I feel like it would have been true for him to be treated like an outcast. That's so sad." (Unquote)

I think they have many good points.

Kat.

 

[GZ Zelda]

That's not the first time that I'm falsely accused of being "pro-confederate" and it won't be the last (just like the radical-Right falsely accused me and others who disagreed with them on their messed up Conservative ideology of being "commies"), so I've learned to just tell these people, "think whatever you want" and just move on. I don't let their false accusations and insults affect me anymore. Both parties, especially the extremists in those parties, are guilty of falsely accusing anyone and everyone who disagree with them on something of being one or more of those things; "a Nazi", "a commie", "a groomer", "a marxist", "a terrorist sympathizer" (the Right will accuse you of being a "terrorist sympathizer" if you support justice and equality for Palestinians and hold Israelis accountable for the apartheid and Palestinian genocide and if you demand justice and equality for Arab people and Muslims), "an internalized misogynist and woman-hater" (the radical-Left will call you that if you are a woman and call yourself an Egalitarian instead of a Feminist and if you support men and boys' rights as much as women and girls' rights because you care just as much about men and boys' issues as you do about women and girls' issues and care as much about injustices that men and boys face than you do about injustices that women and girls face, because that's what TRUE equality is about and you can't do otherwise if you care about your male relatives and friends), "mentally ill", "depraved", and so on and so forth, etc. The second someone accuse you of being "a nazi" or "a commie" or something like that they have lost the debate because that don't have valid arguments and they resort to vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition (that's rather childish too, don't you think?). That's also what Donald Trump and George W. Bush do. The radicals in both parties have far more in common than they're willing to admit.

This obviously is better for MD, but just in its reference to Zelda, saying that Ganondorf's "civil war," where he conquered Hyrule and killed thousands and turned hundreds more into refugees, was the same as the American Civil War and then saying that it was only called a civil war because history is written by the victors...like...people are calling you pro-confederate because you are espousing pro-confederate talking points. Supporting Palestinians is a totally valid cause; supporting anti-Israeli "let's murder all the jews" Hamas is not. Supporting men is great; being anti-feminist is not great. Saying pro-confederate things in the context of the Hyrulean Civil War...is pro-confederate, Chevy is not aggrieving you by pointing that out, and it is ok if you are pro-confederate on the idea that the civil war was not a civil war and that the South had a valid claim to independence (which is the pro-confederate claim you are making). But own that.

In the manga, the author gave Vaati a redemption arc towards the end of the manga, which to me makes the manga flat out superior to Nintendo's game that not only deny Vaati a redemption arc and push the stereotype of the albino "villain" or an albinos being depicted as a villain (which to me reeks of victim-blaming) but also portray him as an unredeemable "villain". And it's funny how the the evil people who abused, bullied, persecuted, targeted for violence, ostracized, shunned and marginalized Vaati for his being born different through no choice of their own are never held accountable while the video game portrays the albino victim as a "bad guy", turn him into some kind of monstruosity with a giant eyeball (albino people are often depicted as "villains" but also as "monstruosities" in entertainment and the Minish Cap video game also spread that kind of dehumanizing depiction of albino people) and then had him brutally murdered by a "hero" who splitted himself into four versions of himself.

Albino people don't have red eyes or purple hair. Vaati is a villain because, as the manga points out, he doesn't "work hard and grow strong under [his] own power," he instead covets the light force to unleash his wrath. It is only in the "brutal murderer's" ability to forgive Vaati for his actions that allows Vaati to grow.

But with Vaati, if he really didn’t have any other people who are close to him, and (as I hc) has an inferiority complex (because nothing says “I’m very secure with myself” like needing to be as powerful as a literal god and calling yourself a miniscule nothing) from which his superiority complex develops as a way of overcompensating, every time Ezlo, his only real social partner and guardian, says something harsh it cuts deep. He doesn’t know that some people are just like that and that they show affection in that way (like a parent yelling at you for drinking too much not because they hate you but because you put yourself into danger and they love you), because there are no other people who he can really compare it to. And I hc him as a teen, so the teenage angst and overall teenagerness comes to that as well.

The game, Minish Cap, is a prequel to Four Swords where it is clear that Vaati has not grown from the fundamental inadequacy and insecurity that drives his character: kidnapping maidens, kidnapping Zelda to marry her, working as a puppet for Ganondorf just to gain approval. That arc is also strong (maybe not as explicitly strong as the manga), but I would argue still strong.

And, yes, it probably is the case that Ezlo instilled that insecurity (and he notably and consistently feels guilty for that throughout both adaptations). Vaati being an angsty not-albino teenager doesn't excuse any of his actions, but it deepens his character. That doesn't mean Link brutally murdered him though: Vaati hurt a lot of people and was trying to kill Zelda and subjugate the entire world. Gotta stop that behavior.

I don’t think he really wanted to "marry" her, it was more of "I want her because she has something I want". He was resealed and later released by Shadow Link, created by Ganon to hinder the heroes, where he just kinda… flings them away in panic. His kidnapping of maidens? Well… there was something he wanted, and it had something to do with a young girl… possibly… maybe? Welp, better go get some maidens, we can figure out the pesky details later. Probably aren't important anyway.

I think he was power-hungry and instinct-driven.

In the game his mind is pretty much destroyed by the time FS+ roles around, which is why he was able to be killed then, so at least he was freed from eternal torture in a sword by death. Which makes it extra sad when you think that in the adult timeline, he is still there, somewhere under the sea.

I don't think he's mindless, I think he's working for Ganondorf, clinging to any sense of power because he completely lost himself trying to become basically human.

I think they have many good points.

I just realized that all of these quotes aren't yours: if you agree with them, then you recognize the nuance in Game Vaati's character and should be able to appreciate the adaptational changes for manga. Instead, you keep calling him albino when he shares one (1) characteristic with albino people. Albino people don't have red eyes or purple hair. It's not a trait. Maybe he was bullied for being purple, or for having red eyes, but that doesn't make you obsessed with the evil in the hearts of men: poor mentorship does. Vaati is Ezlo's fault, which is why Ezlo apologizes so much for Vaati's actions.