Spoiler How Can TMC Be the Beginning of the Split Timeline?

[DuckNoises]

Alright, so, adding more. It's been a few years since I've last beaten the Minish Cap, so my memory was a tad foggy. I beat it again tonight to refresh my memory.

In regards to the hat that gave Vaati his power, Ezlo said that the hat's effects reflect the wishes of its wearer, and that's why the world was filled with evil. This is pretty much exactly the same thing as many statements that are made after Ganondorf tries to use the Triforce to grant his wishes in both OoT and ALttP. That sounds like it's implying that the hat is the Triforce.

Secondly, Ezlo says that since Vaati drained some of the "light force" from Zelda, that now she only has a portion of the power she had before. The fact that he mentions a "portion" could mean he is referring to the Triforce of Wisdom, if indeed the "light force" is the Triforce.

Now, the very last line in the game before the credits is the most provocative; it says something along the lines of: "...surely this is not the end of Link's adventures" and that the "legend" will continue as long as there is the "light force."
We can interpret this several ways. If the light force is the Triforce of Wisdom, then the final statement implies that "the legend [of Zelda] will continue." If that's the case, that's a pretty bland final statement, if I may say so myself. :tired: That means that TMC is not the final game in the franchise or timeline; that conclusion doesn't get us very far.
However, we can spin it the other way; if the "light force" is something entirely different from the Triforce, as some of you have claimed, and the phrase "light force" does not appear anywhere else other than in the Minish Cap, that means that the "legend" will not continue, as dictated by the game's final line. This seems to clash with the fact that many of you believe that TMC takes place before OoT, unless a) the light force is the Triforce (which, as I'm sure you know, crops up many a time ) or b) there is another game after TMC that is the last appearance of the "light force" (but not the Triforce) or c)TMC cannot occur before OoT, and therefore:
i) TMC occurs elsewhere in the split timeline,
ii) TMC is not canon (which I'm sure many of you will disagree with)
iii) TMC takes place in yet another, separate timeline

I'm sure many of you will side with conclusion b that I came to, because that points toward much of the discussion that's been going on about Skyward Sword. Personally, I'd wait until playing Skyward Sword before placing it in the timeline, so I'm much more inclined towards option c)iii). Should Skyward Sword prove to fit all the shenanigans surrounding TMC, I might just hop on the orthodoxy bandwagon. But for now, I'll stand my ground.

Feel free to post your thoughts.

 

[Rytex]

I disagree with you on all three of your points.

Here's why.

The Triforce
There is no mention of the Triforce in this game altogether. It says that the Minish bestowed a sword upon the Hero of Men, and Ezlo says that they created two other gifts to give two more gifts to men, which were the Wishing Cap and the Light Force. Now, as the Triforce was never mentioned in this game (or Ganondorf) or its pre/sequel (?) Four Swords, this places the game before Ocarina of time, because in Ocarina of time, the Triforce is practically the focus of the entire freaking story. Now, in Four Swords Adventures, Ganon does exist and the Triforce is mentioned, so it has to come after OoT. The only other games in the series that have no mention of the Triforce are Link's Awakening (though it says that Link has a triangle on the back of his hand and Ganon and agahnim are in the final boss fight against Dethl), Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks (havent played, but they definately have a prequel), Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland (and who cares about thiss one?), and Majora's Mask (and that also has a prequel).

The Hat
You are right in that a hat having profound effect upon Hyrule being absurd, but think for a little bit. In the stained glass picture showing the Hero of Men, it shows him without a hat. Considering that the stained glass picture portrays a true hero, then it shows that no Hero before Minish Cap ever wore the green hat. Every subsequent game shows Link with a hat, showing that, if you think of it that way, they had to have come after Minish Cap.

The Quote
Really, we have no control over the quote, so we can't try to make head or tail if it wasn't meant to be either.

 

[Locke]

The Triforce
There is no mention of the Triforce in this game altogether.

The Triforce is displayed all over Hyrule Castle. It's not mentioned just because it isn't important to the story. It's probably either in the SR or locked up in some hidden room in the castle not shown in the game, but they (at least the royal family) know (or at least knew) about it. I don't think this affects the game's placement because with respect to the Triforce it would make sense anywhere.

The Hat
Considering that the stained glass picture portrays a true hero, then it shows that no Hero before Minish Cap ever wore the green hat.

Faulty logic is faulty. Actually I think there's a specific term for what you did there. All the stained glass picture shows is that the HoM didn't have a hat.

 

[Rytex]

Actually I think there's a specific term for what you did there.

Try "assumption." (plus thirty characters)

 

[DuckNoises]

No, I think Locke64 is referring to a Latin term, but I also forget what it is.

 

[ganonlord6000]

The light force has nothing to do with the triforce. The Triforce is as old as Hyrule. The light force was given to the Hylians by the minish. I just played through the game twice recently, so I know what I am talking about. The director of TMC even mentioned that the Light force is a very old Hylian legend.

I think that all of the FS games are before OOT at the current moment in time, but I am only talking about TMC here. the hat really doesn't work very well on its own aside from the fact the this Link literally gets it at the very end of the game. I also seem to remember a quote from one of the developers which mentioned that TMC is the story of how Link got his hat and that it takes you deep into Hylian lore.

The ending does seem to imply an early placement as well. The Japanese ending is very clear on this matter because it calls TMC the first adventure of Link. nintendo never forshadowed sequels to other games before, and TMC was a prequel in the first place.

Why are the Capcom games the only ones that are a lot of trouble to place?

 

[DuckNoises]

So people in Japan probably have a clear and perfect understanding of the timeline, then?
But that Japanese ending sounds promising. Is there some way you could find a translation of it? (One that's not the English version of TMC; that would bring us back to where we are) XD

 

[Pinecove]

Right here DuckNoises:

こうして リンク のはじめての 冒険は おわりました
しかし これからも リンク に ゼルダにハイラルに さまざまなできごとが おとずれるでしょう
そう ものがたりは つづいていくのです
フォースの みちびきが あるかぎり…

Thus Link's first adventure ended.
But hereafter, many kinds of occurences will perhaps come to Link and Zelda in Hyrule.
So, the story goes on.
As long as there is the Force's guidance...

(Ignore this text, it's to lengthen my post to 30 characters.)

 

[ganonlord6000]

Aren't the translations on this site? Those really did help with the timeline debates on other sites such as ZI and ZU.

This is to everyone here. I highly recommend reading the translations.

 

[ironknuckle1]

thats a very interesting translation and i am reading it the way you are but i think that when some people read it they may think of it as only the first adventure of the FSS Link (the link in MC through FSA). So then they would think because of this that MC doesnt have to go first. But i agree with you all.

 

[Pinecove]

Aren't the translations on this site? Those really did help with the timeline debates on other sites such as ZI and ZU.

Yes. They're up in the stickied theorist's resources which I posted, which almost nobody uses.

 

[DuckNoises]

That does clear things up a fair bit, but it's still fairly ambiguous as to whether or not it's referring to all Links, or just that Link in particular, as Ironknuckle said. We still need to identify what the "light force" exactly is, though.

 

[Rytex]

We still need to identify what the "light force" exactly is, though.

I can help there. Ezlo says in the game that the Light force was the second gift to mankind after the sword. Havebn't played the game in forever, so I can't remember exactly where, but I do remember such a line.

 

[Meego]

I also think the reason for people placing TMC at the begining of the timeline is because Link and Zelda are a lot younger...but I don't know that this is accurate though. It may just seem like that because of what they look like in the game but there is no proof of their age.

How does a hat have anything to do with the order of the timeline? Isn't it a style choice?

And, as other people have said, there is no record of the Minish obtaining the Triforce. I don't recall much mention of the Triforce at all in the game. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure of that.

Just out of interest, what would you place at the begining of the timeline?

 

[Tyeforce]

That does clear things up a fair bit, but it's still fairly ambiguous as to whether or not it's referring to all Links, or just that Link in particular, as Ironknuckle said. We still need to identify what the "light force" exactly is, though.

Well, it would have to refer to all Links, because the Link in TMC only had one adventure (that we know of, at least). And we know what the Light Force is. It's a source of limitless magical power that resides in Princess Zelda, a gift from the Picori. While it hasn't appeared in any other game by name, we can assume that it still exists in every Zelda, which would explain her magical abilities. It would also explain why she is kidnapped by villains in games where she doesn't even wield the Triforce of Wisdom. Even without the Triforce, she possesses a great power inside of her; the Light Force.