Final Fantasy XV's Lack of Female Protagonists

[Emma]

I'll start out by admitting I'm not the biggest fan of the Final Fantasy series. I have only played half of the FF-13 trilogy. I had all three but only got halfway through 13-2, which I liked a lot more than 13. I have not played any others.

I was initially somewhat interested in XV because of its new direct combat system however now I'm not so sure.
My impression of it so far is reduced. The playable characters are all male and they'll be traveling together in a car. The only female characters are ones they meet down the road. A road trip game? Uh....

And the explanations for why they did this are a bit..... well... groan-worthy. Here, according to game director Hajime Tabata:

Speaking honestly, an all-male party feels almost more approachable for players. Even the presence of one female in the group will change their behaviour, so that they'll act differently. So to give the most natural feeling, to make them feel sincere and honest, having them all the same gender made sense in that way. The world might be ready to see the curtain lifted on what boys do when girls aren't around, when they come out of the tent all prim and proper. That's kind of the idea behind it… we think, male or female player, that everyone will feel a certain connection and bond with the four characters.

More approachable? That's just absurd. I'm a bit more moderate on the female player characters thing. I think they should be there along with playable male characters and not replacing them like some radicals like to do (like in the Ghostbusters movie). The ideas in that quote are...... rather insulting towards males. Implying they are dishonest about who they are around women. I'm not liking this at all.

Then later said:

There are quite a lot of female characters the guys will meet along the road they take and they really enhance the story, and perform a lot of different roles in the story. Not just as love interests but other ways as the story progresses.

And this is a stab at the girls. Implying they have to make themselves useful elsewhere because they're not fit to be in on the action with the boys. Ugh..... Like I said I try not to take a radical view on this gender in video game stuff but this one just is ruffling my feathers the wrong way.

So what does everyone else think? Is this going to be an issue at all to dedicated fans of the series?

 

[DoomDash]

Seems fine to me, just like in real life not every group is diverse nor does it need to be.

 

[ZeldafreakCJM]

This wasn't an issue when FFX2 only had a female cast, it's not an issue here.

 

[Misty]

And the explanations for why they did this are a bit..... well... groan-worthy. Here, according to game director Hajime Tabata:

Both quotes seemed very well articulated and not at all groan worthy to me.

More approachable? That's just absurd. I'm a bit more moderate on the female player characters thing. I think they should be there along with playable male characters and not replacing them like some radicals like to do (like in the Ghostbusters movie). The ideas in that quote are...... rather insulting towards males. Implying they are dishonest about who they are around women. I'm not liking this at all.

The quote doesn't imply that at all. It implies they are different when they are around women. Different does not necessitate deception. Relationships differ. That would be like my parents saying I'm dishonest because I treat my friends with less overt and verbal respect than I treat them. The context is different and so my actions are. That's not the same as being two-faced and that is what this person is saying.

All men in a road-trip scenario is a much different context than mostly men and a woman or two men and two women. The job of the writers changes because they don't have to expend energy depicting the female as "one of the boys" or explaining how it is that she is there. I've been friends with men my whole life without it ever turning romantic and gone on road trips with them and people always assumed things about that. If they made the choice to have a woman and didn't address it in a way that was realistic, fans of the series and critics would devour them alive for poor writing.

You seem to have assumed a meaning not made clear in the quote and failed to address the over-all spirit of what was said.

And this is a stab at the girls. Implying they have to make themselves useful elsewhere because they're not fit to be in on the action with the boys. Ugh..... Like I said I try not to take a radical view on this gender in video game stuff but this one just is ruffling my feathers the wrong way.

Once again, I think you are adding all this in when it isn't there. He's saying women appear elsewhere and are dynamic, compelling, and most importantly not just love interests for the boys.

He never says they aren't fit to be in on the action with the boys and given the fact Final Fantasy has always featured a dynamic cast of women in on the action, I cannot imagine they've started believing that now.

You aren't taking a radical view, I hand you that, you're just not really reading what is said by this person.

I think hilariously, this guy is clearly the most progressive person I've seen in video games. He has the courage and conviction to tell a story in which it is unapologetically a tale about men but not necessarily for men. In which featuring a woman in these particular roles is not assumed or necessary for it to be a compelling story for all genders and peoples. Honestly, this may be the first Final Fantasy I play in my adult life. Slow clap to him for having the balls to make this game in the current climate.

 

[Viral Maze]

I think its fine. The words the game director said may not have been the best things, or the most PC, and are definitely groan worthy, but a game with an all male cast, and females relegated to supporting cast is perfectly fine. I'd have no problem if it were the either way around.

 

[Emma]

I think its fine. The words the game director said may not have been the best things, or the most PC, and are definitely groan worthy, but a game with an all male cast, and females relegated to supporting cast is perfectly fine. I'd have no problem if it were the either way around.

I just take issue with the explanations. A road trip with the boys is a frequent event in real life so I can see that being a relatable story. I just think the explanations for why it's done were just ridiculous. I don't see how at all making the cast all one gender makes it more relatable. Including the past cases where the cast was all female. Since not everyone is male and not everyone is female, that doesn't even work at all. And I still think the explanation about females means they have to be relegated to support roles to be relatable. It just doesn't sit right with me.

And if anyone here is at remotely familiar with me, I take issue with radical SJW nonsense all the time. It doesn't mean there can't be a case where yeah, the people making the game are being sexist in their choices rather than just simply trying to tell a particular story. I do think people should be able to tell whatever story they want. But that's the reasoning they should have used! "This is the story we envisioned, and it was supposed to be about this particular scenario about a road trip with friends which commonly is all one gender in real life." Instead of the incredibly awkward explanation we got.

 

[DoomDash]

It doesn't say the females will be in support roles, they just won't be the main protagonists of this game.

 

[Misty]

I just take issue with the explanations. A road trip with the boys is a frequent event in real life so I can see that being a relatable story. I just think the explanations for why it's done were just ridiculous. I don't see how at all making the cast all one gender makes it more relatable. Including the past cases where the cast was all female. Since not everyone is male and not everyone is female, that doesn't even work at all. And I still think the explanation about females means they have to be relegated to support roles to be relatable. It just doesn't sit right with me.

And if anyone here is at remotely familiar with me, I take issue with radical SJW nonsense all the time. It doesn't mean there can't be a case where yeah, the people making the game are being sexist in their choices rather than just simply trying to tell a particular story. I do think people should be able to tell whatever story they want. But that's the reasoning they should have used! "This is the story we envisioned, and it was supposed to be about this particular scenario about a road trip with friends which commonly is all one gender in real life." Instead of the incredibly awkward explanation we got.

I sorta feel like you aren't imagining his position before he makes those statements.

He and his company/team have decided they want to tell a story that is a story about men and includes a supporting cast of both men and women. (Knowing final fantasy, also strangely dressed animals and other manner of creatures.) They have made this decision in a climate that is incredibly hostile to stories about men or stories which place women in the supporting cast.

In a perfect world, he would just walk out and say "people tell many kinds of stories and we are telling one which happens to include many men in leading positions and both genders in supporting roles". This isn't a perfect world. He is required by this current climate to highlight the fact women will appear, be dynamic, and not just be love interests. And even if he does that, his project is going to receive negative attention.

The awkwardness you are criticizing is not caused by him, it is caused by the actions of SJWtards forcing this particular issue all the time. SJWtards are who he is speaking to essentially. Everyone else wouldn't give a **** unless they were looking for something to give a **** about. Everyone else knows that he means "this is common in real life, **** off" when he says what he actually said.

 

[Emma]

I should say before anyone gets carried away, I'm not really firmly attached to any opinion about this. I'm only slightly interested and I am more interested in just seeing what everyone thinks about it. It's not a series I care that much about and I just noticed this topic hadn't been started yet.

 

[DoomDash]

I haven't been excited about a Final Fantasy game since FF9 until this game. It looks really promising, I'm hoping my love for the series can be restored. It's amazing how FF7 is by far my favorite game yet I cared so little about the series for so long.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

It didn't bother me at all personally when I first read the news because it'll be an interesting change of pace. Final Fantasy has historically had balanced casts gender-wise, which can get kind of predictable and old (Hmmm, will the main male character end up with one of the female party members? I just don't know.....CloudTifa, SquallRinoa, ZidaneGarnet, TidusYuna, VaanPeneleo, the list goes on). An all male cast will change things up and hopefully introduce some more character motivations, such as true "life-long" friendships that can now be shown instead of told due to other, not as "in-the-group" characters not being present.

I don't have a problem with the first quote from the director, because I feel like it's definitely true. I would certainly act differently if I went on a summer vacation with my three best friends (as I've done every year since high school ended), and one of them brought his girl-friend along. It would certainly change the dynamic of our long-lasting friendship that we all have together and how we act. I especially liked what Misty had to say above:

Relationships differ. That would be like my parents saying I'm dishonest because I treat my friends with less overt and verbal respect than I treat them. The context is different and so my actions are. That's not the same as being two-faced and that is what this person is saying.

This is absolutely how I feel about it. A vast majority of Final Fantasy games feature a cast that was cobbled together at the last minute; they're all thrown into a situation and don't know each other, but they're forced to work together due to their mutual problem. This is on top of many of the games featuring playable characters that the main party just stumbles upon and decides to add to their ranks. The context for this game seems to be completely different - we have some guys that have been best friends for a very, very long time and have an adventure together. Arbitrarily inserting a female main into the mix would break that dynamic in two ways: 1.) This band of friends would suddenly have a complete, opposite sex stranger among their midst and would have to act accordingly, or 2.) We have a life-long female friend that we have to justify being "one of the guys" by making her inevitable "tom-boy" trope a pain to sit through (don't forget this is a Japanese game; this trope is everywhere).


I also believe the second quote you used is being misunderstood a bit. There's no malice or talking-down-to in its context, I feel. If anything, the female characters we've already been introduced to do the exact opposite - Cindy is the first female Cid in the entire series, and seems to be an incredibly skilled mechanic who will probably deal with item synthesis/upgrades along with airship mechanics if there is a playable one. She's not part of the main party because she's not a fighter; she's a mechanic, and seems to be actively taking the role away from a character that has historically been male since the beginning. It's actually really nice to have a Final Fantasy character that for once isn't part of the party just for the hell of it when their inclusion doesn't make sense (like 6-year-old child characters, and another mechanic Cid in FFIV).

This wasn't an issue when FFX2 only had a female cast, it's not an issue here.

And yeah, I feel like this has to be brought up too. This isn't Square's first time tackling a single gender playable cast. Say what you will about FFX-2's more light-hearted continuation of FFX plot wise; its gameplay was awesome and incredibly deep and satisfying. It's a really good game that I can appreciate despite being male and playing as an all-female cast. From what I can tell and remember, there was no outrage at an all-female cast despite the game before it (FFX) having a balanced cast of males and females. This should absolutely be no different.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

to be honest,i don't see how this was something worth addressing in thread form, to me this is just as problematic as the cast of nicktoons unite

 

[Emma]

And yeah, I feel like this has to be brought up too. This isn't Square's first time tackling a single gender playable cast. Say what you will about FFX-2's more light-hearted continuation of FFX plot wise; its gameplay was awesome and incredibly deep and satisfying. It's a really good game that I can appreciate despite being male and playing as an all-female cast. From what I can tell and remember, there was no outrage at an all-female cast despite the game before it (FFX) having a balanced cast of males and females. This should absolutely be no different.

There is one issue with that though. Historically all female casts usually never get criticized, while all male casts frequently do. Ghostbusters is a special case because it's a deliberate replacement of an all-male cast with an all-female cast that was explicitly stated was just so it could be all female (as expressed with the cast posing in a girl power picture), that is also happening in an era that has been having stronger and stronger pushback against radical SJW actions.

It being a male cast now when traditionally in Final Fantasy, single gender casts were always female, I think will be much more strongly critcized, particularly with the likes of Anita Sarkeesian and her band of zombie followers obsessing over this kind of thing and how the "male domination" in gaming needs to go away.

 

[Ventus]

He's a hundred percent correct in his reasoning. Guys naturally muh dick around girls, whether implicitly or explicitly. It's not anecdote, it's biological imperative. By removing the female (or the male, as in FFX-2) you allow for realistic character writing that really wouldn't take place otherwise. You allow for jokes that won't be taken offensively because of the Bro Code™. You allow for a bond (between pixels, granted) that would not exist between opposite gender, or same sex couples. XV's cast is a team of bros, not lovers or childhood friends.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

It being a male cast now when traditionally in Final Fantasy, single gender casts were always female, I think will be much more strongly critcized, particularly with the likes of Anita Sarkeesian and her band of zombie followers obsessing over this kind of thing and how the "male domination" in gaming needs to go away.

"Traditionally" is a bit too strong of a word to use, as there has been only a single instance in the main-series games with an single-gender cast, the aforementioned FFX-2 (I've not played many of the spin-offs, but I seriously doubt it's a different case there).

A precedent is there for sure, but it isn't a pattern; single-gender casts are not at all a regular thing in Final Fantasy. It's pretty much just a way to show to those Sarkeesian-esque types that Square has absolutely never favored one gender or the other when it comes to the vast majority of their Final Fantasy games, with the lone exception of an all-female cast having a story driven reason behind it (Two of the four main male characters die at the end of FFX, the others become leaders/fathers of their respective villages).

As for FFXV inevitably going to be criticized due to today's gaming climate, I agree completely. It's just the way the industry works right now, unfortunately. I feel like the best way to handle it is for the true fans of the series to just point out the hypocrisy and move one.