Few Questions About First 6 Zeldas

[Blue Window]

To shinra358

I doubt that the triforce of power is only just to transform into something...

TP shows us that the ToP can make you survive certain things. Otherwise, we don't know much of the exact powers of the Triforce pieces.

And Shiek is just an astral projection from zelda. Much like phantom ganon/agahnim is an astral projection from Ganon. Zelda is imprisoned in a crystal the whole time in the future of OoT. Sitting beside Ganon the whole time in the future of OoT.

Would you like to explain how can Zelda be captured by Ganondorf and imprisoned in a rose crystal after she revealed her disguise, if your theory is correct?

As I say again, she still already knew to begin with. That is why she sent Link on the whole quest.

Zelda knew a lot of things, but she was not aware of the consequences her messing with the Door of Time would lead to.

Originally Posted by OoT Zelda

All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time...

That's out of context. He's using that line to introduce what he's going to explain about TP. "In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link's time." 'Adult Timeline' is a fan designation for one of the "parallel" continuities.

That is not out of context. I copied and pasted exact.

I believe Locke suggests that the line you copied was not taken in full context, not that he doubted the veracity of it. This is the full quote:

Question: When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

Question: And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

TP takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time after the ending where Link is a child, that is clear. Where does the Wind Waker take place?

Question: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall timeline of the Legend of Zelda?

Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.

Mr. Aonuma: There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.

(Note: The first person that responds is probably Miyamoto)

Here we get to know that the Wind Waker takes place after the adult ending of OoT.

We can draw the conclusion that both TP and WW follow OoT then. However, they can not co-exist since one game has Ganondorf being trapped in the Twilight Realm while the other has him sealed in the Sacred Realm. Consequently, the games take place parallel to each other. Still, the actual concept "the Split Timeline" was invented by the theorists.

Question: Where does The Wind Walker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Eiji Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time.

Along with his other quote of "Link went back to the present in Oot, remember?", that means that OoT ended in the present. So that would actually mean that WW takes place 100 years after the final scene in OoT. Which is Link reporting back to Zelda. NOT when Link beat Ganon in the future. Which also means that the director contradicted himself. If the parallel saying was said before this saying, more than likely it was a retcon/fix from his past sayings (the director guy).

Here is the full quotation:

Question: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.

Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?

Aonuma: From the end.

Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...

Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.

We can see that the line you presented does, unfortunately, not give us enough information to accurately analyse the status of WW. When Aonuma goes on by explaining the "two endings", we get to know that the ending of OoT isn't that simple. Aonuma clearly says that WW follows the adult ending.

/Blue Window

 

[Locke]

quote: "There was no time fast-forwarding or rewinding involved. Zelda lived out seven years as a Sheikah, for example. However, it was also stated that Link wasn't "take[n] out of place and replace[d]", but was sealed for seven years." -

You just denied that there is no fast forwarding and rewinding but yet you say he was sealed. How else could he time travel then. Of course he was in the palace for 7 years, I already said that. You just said he wasn't taken out of place and replaced in the future. So that only means fast forwarding and rewinding. You even said look at the characters. I'm looking. And all the kid characters did what, are 'adult' along with Link. It's only 7 years so you wouldn't even see change in the ppl that were grown to begin with. So you just denied only to still agree

Sorry, I think I misstated that a little. While Link's body is sealed and undergoes no travel, his consciousness is able to jump back and forth between two times. If you want to call that being taken out and replaced, then okay.

And Shiek is just an astral projection from zelda. Much like phantom ganon/agahnim is an astral projection from Ganon. Zelda is imprisoned in a crystal the whole time in the future of OoT. Sitting beside Ganon the whole time in the future of OoT.

I'm sorry, what?? Zelda is clearly imprisoned in the crystal after she reveals herself.

quote: "Yes, she would know everything after Link tells her." -

As I say again, she still already knew to begin with. That is why she sent Link on the whole quest.

She had no idea her plan would fail, or else she wouldn't have sent link on his quest. We both agree that she knows Ganondorf will try to take the Triforce. I'm saying that she doesn't know that Link will allow him to do it.

quote: "What matters is that she doesn't send Link off to gather the stones and open the DoT just for Ganon to take the ToX."

She sends Link on the quest in order for Link to gain the power to defeat Ganon.

We must not let Ganondorf get the Triforce!
I will protect the Ocarina of Time with all my power!
He shall not have it!
You go find the other two Spiritual Stones!
Let's get the Triforce before Ganondorf does, and then defeat him!

Zelda sends Link to get the Triforce. What she doesn't know is that this is Ganondorf's trap:

Geh heh heh! Excellent work!
As I thought, you held the keys to the Door of Time!
You have led me to the gates of the Sacred Realm...
Yes, I owe it all to you, kid!

quote: "Saria, Ruto, Darunia, etc. weren't awakened on the CT. The Sages in TP are different ones. I'll leave the debate over whether they were awakened before or after OoT out of this."

Then they (the white sages) would have been in the place of them (OoT sages) in OoT then instead of the OoT sages being "awakened". Awakened or not, whether they knew it or not, they still were sages. To me, Saria acted as if she knew all along that she was a sage. The all knowing Deku Tree would have told her.

The common theory here is that Ganondorf killed them on the AT. Otherwise, why would Link have to awaken the other Sages?

Quote: "That's out of context. He's using that line to introduce what he's going to explain about TP. "In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link's time." 'Adult Timeline' is a fan designation for one of the "parallel" continuities."

That is not out of context. I copied and pasted exact.

That's not what out of context means. You took a portion of the exact quote without the surrounding information in order to change its meaning. In context (without taking away the information about TP that follows it), that quote refers to TP, not WW.

quote: "I don't think so. Agahnim was killed in LttP." -

But the wizard wasn't killed in Zelda II. That's why I had asked.

Yes he was, he died from the overwhelming power of his spell.[/quote]

quote: "Question: Where does The Wind Walker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Eiji Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time." -

Along with his other quote of "Link went back to the present in Oot, remember?", that means that OoT ended in the present. So that would actually mean that WW takes place 100 years after the final scene in OoT. Which is Link reporting back to Zelda. NOT when Link beat Ganon in the future. Which also means that the director contradicted himself. If the parallel saying was said before this saying, more than likely it was a retcon/fix from his past sayings (the director guy).

You're taking things out of context again. After the quote you posted, he clarified: "The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina." (I posted this too...idk how you missed/ignored it). And yet again, "Link went back to the present in OoT, remember?" sets up for Twilight Princess, not Wind Waker. He explains that in the very next sentence.
The WW quote ("takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina") is from 2002. The TP quote (Link goes back to the present, TP takes place a hundred and something years after that. WW is parallel) is from 2007. He doesn't contradict himself at all. He says WW is on the AT in 2002, then he says that TP is on the CT and WW is parallel in 2007.

Twilight Princess - Over a century, after Link and Zelda thwart Ganon's attempts of a takeover through the convo seen at the end of OoT, Ganon is executed and
reborn with the power of his innate triforce of power. New Link must stop his tyranny again.
Wind Waker - 100 years after Link and Zelda thwart Ganon's attempts of a takeover through the convo seen at the end of OoT. The intro even says "weilding
the master's sword, he sealed ganon away and gave light to the land. This boy (not adult) who traveled through time to save the land was also known
as the hero of time. (pic shows kid Link of OoT riding epona like he was in MM)". This MUST have happened 1 generation after TP. By them saying Link's
legend was told generations after generations before WW starts, means there is lots of time where TP can happen in between. And since TP happens 100
years after OoT, this must shortly come right after TP. And I say at least 1 generation for that fact that it says this happens 100 years after OoT, so to
closely match that, is why I say it. A generation is about 20-25 years which can still be rounded up to the nearest earliest hundred since it is not over 50.

WW says the HoT sealed Ganon away, then Ganon returned but there was no hero to stop him so Hyrule was flooded, which leads into WW. How is there room for TP in there?

The true ending of the game shows Link sailing. Link wasn't in Hyrule during OoX. The boat could be merely just because he is going back to Hyrule. Not because he's going to train. In LA, he was leaving hyrule. Not Holdrum, or whereever OoX takes place.

"After a long and fruitful voyage, you breathed deeply the sea spray from the deck of the ship that carried you home to Hyrule." - Link is returning to Hyrule at the beginning of LA.

 

[thawk]

Too ......many ......quotes xD :

Okay, Zelda was captured after she gave Link the Light Arrows. I forgot that part. So it wasn't an astral projection.

I accept that Zelda didn't/doesn't know by the info given.

Okay, I see that continuing quote/second half further questioning Eiji now.

@ the LA snippet ~ DOH! XD. Ya got me.

Even though Eiji said another story starts in the adult timeline, that's still not possible in real life if time traveling was possible. But i will have to accept it considering that's what he said about the series.

About the wizard in Zelda II - there are 2 main wizards in this game. I was talking about the one that is shown after you beat dark Link. But as I read another wiki, it states this wizard as being a sage.


So now, after all that, I'm getting this:


----------> MM > LCT/TP
SS > OoT-|
----------> WW > PH > ST

MC > FS > FSA > LA > OoX > ALTTP > LoZ > AoL

Thoughts?

 

[MikauIncarnate]

I doubt that the triforce of power is only just to transform into something...

Just because you doubt it doesn't mean you can attribute powers to it. You can only make an assumption if there's a basis for it. "I think it is" is not a basis.

And Shiek is just an astral projection from zelda. Much like phantom ganon/agahnim is an astral projection from Ganon. Zelda is imprisoned in a crystal the whole time in the future of OoT. Sitting beside Ganon the whole time in the future of OoT.

No. This is just wrong. Zelda isn't trapped in the crystal until after she reveals herself.

As I say again, she still already knew to begin with. That is why she sent Link on the whole quest.

No, she sent him on the quest because he gave off a bad vibe. Not because she knew that 7 years in the future he would be a dictator.

She sends Link on the quest in order for Link to gain the power to defeat Ganon.

"You go find the other two
Spiritual Stones!
Let's get the Triforce before
Ganondorf does, and then defeat
him!"

Then they (the white sages) would have been in the place of them (OoT sages) in OoT then instead of the OoT sages being "awakened". Awakened or not, whether they knew it or not, they still were sages. To me, Saria acted as if she knew all along that she was a sage. The all knowing Deku Tree would have told her.

What? And no, Saria didn't know, because she is "awakened" to being a sage. Therefor she did not know beforehand.

That is not out of context. I copied and pasted exact.

That is out of context. You used it as though it refers to WW when in fact it refers to TP. That is what taking something out of context is.

quote: "Question: Where does The Wind Walker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Eiji Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time." -

Along with his other quote of "Link went back to the present in Oot, remember?", that means that OoT ended in the present. So that would actually mean that WW takes place 100 years after the final scene in OoT. Which is Link reporting back to Zelda. NOT when Link beat Ganon in the future. Which also means that the director contradicted himself. If the parallel saying was said before this saying, more than likely it was a retcon/fix from his past sayings (the director guy).

LIke I said earlier. He says after Link when back to being a kid, TP happens. Not WW.

 

[thawk]

Dude, you're late. All that has been gone over

So now, after all that, I'm getting this:


------------> MM > LCT/TP
SS > OoT-|
------------> WW > PH > ST

MC > FS > FSA > LA > OoX > ALTTP > LoZ > AoL

Thoughts?

 

[MikauIncarnate]

So now, after all that, I'm getting this:


----------> MM > LCT/TP
SS > OoT-|
----------> WW > PH > ST

MC > FS > FSA > LA > OoX > ALTTP > LoZ > AoL

There aren't three timelines. It's been stated that there is a split timeline. Not an alternate one. And certainly not 3. And if LA is a direct sequel (though this is now debated but it's confirmed it comes after) to ALTTP, how does it come before it?

Even though Eiji said another story starts in the adult timeline, that's still not possible in real life if time traveling was possible. But i will have to accept it considering that's what he said about the series.

No one can say what's possible with real life time travelling because it doesn't exist. It could work exactly this way. No one knows.

 

[thawk]

Since it was said that SS shows the origin of Ganon and would come before OoT, it would mean that MC is not related to anything of the SS timeline. SS, the lineage has his headgear. MC, the lineage doesn't and before MC, the lineage still doesn't have the headgear as shown in the intro of MC. Both are origin stories but both can't fit on the same line.

Link leaves Hyrule after defeating Ganon in FSA, and when returning, his ship is struck down. After his dream, he returns to Hyrule. He then heads to the castle and the triforce ships him to Holodrum. That's one way I see it. OoX can't be used in the other timeline because Ganon's mom is still alive. It also can't come after ALttP because in the end of ALttP, Link puts the Master sword back in the pedestal and it is never touched again as said by the ending of "it sleeps forever". LA is where it is at because if OoX can't come after ALttP, it only makes sense that it is a prequel to OoX instead. And because it can't seem to go anywhere else. FSA fits LA intro story just as well as ALttP. Until proven otherwise of course. I had it after ALttP at first though because it could fit there too. But then i changed to before OoX. I'm trying to remember how Link and Zelda meet each other again in OoT and what they say to determine if I should change it back or not.

Edit: The concept of LA Link being the same OoX can't be a direct prequel to OoX because Link and Zelda meet for the first time again on there. And Four Swords Link looks a bit too young to be the same Link as LA. So now I will have to change it this:



----------> MM > LCT/TP
SS > OoT-|
----------> WW > PH > ST

MC > FS > FSA > ALTTP > LA > LoZ > AoL

OoX


It's actually hard to place OoX anywhere actually. So I'll just set it aside. I'm not going to include BS The Legend of Zelda: The Ancient Stone Tablets because it was japan only so I doubt it is canon to the storyline. Link's crossbow training I put in their because he could have done this training when he got the bow in TP. I take it as a
short story within TP.

Discuss.

 

[MikauIncarnate]

Since it was said that SS shows the origin of Ganon and would come before OoT, it would mean that MC is not related to anything of the SS timeline. SS, the lineage has his headgear. MC, the lineage doesn't and before MC, the lineage still doesn't have the headgear as shown in the intro of MC. Both are origin stories but both can't fit on the same line.

Headgear is such an absurd thing to base a timeline on. Besides, just because SS shows the origin of Ganon doesn't mean MC can't go there, MC doesn't show the origin of Ganon, only Vaati.

OoX can't be used in the other timeline because Ganon's mom is still alive.

Twinrova is alive in the CT because Link never killed them. It can go there quite easily.

It also can't come after ALttP because in the end of ALttP, Link puts the Master sword back in the pedestal and it is never touched again as said by the ending of "it sleeps forever".

... No it doesn't. Maybe you're thinking of a different game but... that's not in ALttP

I'm trying to remember how Link and Zelda meet each other again in OoT and what they say to determine if I should change it back or not.

The concept of LA Link being the same OoX can't be a direct prequel to OoX

What?

And Four Swords Link looks a bit too young to be the same Link as LA.

Like I said. Looks aren't a good basis for the timeline. The artistic styles of FS/FSA/MC and LA are completely different, and as such can not really be compared. If you were given an abstract painting of a woman and a Mona-lisa-esque version of that same woman, you couldn't say "that one looks younger so they can't be the same." Not that I'm saying FS link is the same as ALttP Link because I don't really think so, but still, you need more reasoning than that.

 

[thawk]

Yeah but it showed in MC 2 generations of the cap. MC would be the 2nd story of a capless hero. The hero in the generation before MC didn't have a cap in the intro. It can't come after anything else because all of the heroes in all the other games have a cap. Obsurd as a cap? Hey, that's what the whole game was about so, what can you do?

About the master sword sleeps forever in ALttP; yes it does and it's right here @ 5:34 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac

You got a point with the TwinRova statement. I will adjust based on that info:



----------> MM > LCT/TP
SS > OoT-|
----------> WW > PH > ST

MC > FS > FSA > ALTTP > LA > LoZ > AoL

*OoX - unknown*

It is still hard to place OoX at a location because it could come after some generations of TP or it can come after some generations of AoL. So OoX is still up in the air.
Discuss.

 

[MikauIncarnate]

Just because the game is about a hat doesn't mean that that's something to base a timeline on. It begins with a LEGEND. A LEGEND is something that is passed down through generations. Do you really think people are going to tell their children "Once upon a time, there was a hero who defeated the evil and gave us the Picori Blade. And he wore a green hat." ? No, because they, as I do, would think it's an unimportant detail. Besides, the only reason you can say the hero in the generation before doesn't have a cap is because of the stained glass windows. Art is subject to change and artistic liberty. I don't know for sure, but maybe if I was the person making that window in a church or a shrine or something, I would have said "this hat really doesn't look good, so I'm going to leave it off." I just don't get how MC has to start a separate timeline.

On another note. If the master sword sleeps forever why does LA come after ALttP. Even though that statement isn't necessarily true anymore, when the developers said it, it was. Therefore, they must have taken into account the "the master sword sleeps forever" quote, and still said that LA comes after. And in OoX, the master sword is more of a side thing that you get as a product of a trading quest, if I'm right. (Am I? Sorry, haven't played linked game) I see it as, even if the MS sleeps forever, the Goddesess could have decided they needed it again because, oh, I don't know GANON IS BEING REVIVED. Seems like something they would pay attention to. Besides, for him to be revived, wouldn't he have to die first? As well as, in the beginning of ALttP he's sealed, not dead, which he is at the end of OoX.

On a side note, you might want to put the CT at the bottom and the AT at the top. It's just a convention that would make your timeline easier to read.

 

[thawk]

about the hat: If that is so, then you would have seen any other intro story of any other Zelda game with the previous hero not having a hat. But you don't. BTW, the hat was alive so yeah, probably so. Especially when he couldn't continue on without it in MC.

In OoX, you can get the Master Sword in 2 ways depending on if you got the other upgraded sword first or not. So you can either get it from the trade guy as you said, or you can get it from the Lost Woods.

LA does not have a master sword. Neither does Zelda I or II.

Come to think of it, SS nulls the notion that Link's clothes originated from the Kokiri because he has the outfit in SS.


----------> WW > PH > ST
SS > OoT-|
----------> MM > LCT/TP

? > MC > FS > FSA > ALTTP > LA > LoZ > AoL

*OoX - undecided*

 

[MikauIncarnate]

The hat is just not something to base a timeline on. Period. It's completely subjective to the artist. Apparently most of them like the hat, but maybe the one before MC doesn't. You can't even know if MC comes after SS or if there's another game in between them we haven't seen yet and no one even remembers SS Link. Maybe SS link even loses his hat at the end. We don't know. The game hasn't come out yet. I was referring to LA having master sword because it has "your sword," which I thought of as master sword. But now that I reconsider, it actually probably isn't, so I see you there.

I'm trying to remember how Link and Zelda meet each other again in OoT and what they say to determine if I should change it back or not.

The concept of LA Link being the same OoX can't be a direct prequel to OoX

Can you tell me what this means please? I honestly just have no idea what you're saying here.

And I forgot to say this earlier and I don't want you to think I'm trying to ignore it. The only reason I said "the master sword sleeps forever" wasn't in ALttP is because I was using text dumps. Just to let you know.

 

[thawk]

Even without the hat, MC is still an origin story of Vaati and the birth of the 4 sword. So it still would come first. Until proven otherwise, I can't change it's placement. If you feel strongly about it, you must have a stronger argument as why it shouldn't be where it is.

Those quotes are irrelevant now because I've already come to the conclusion that LA Link cannot be the same Link as OoX or FSA. In that 2nd quote is just a place where I edited but didn't rewrite it correctly. Either way, both of them are null and void now (those 2 quotes from me).

 

[MikauIncarnate]

Why can't LA/OoX Link be the same. I'd really like to hear your argument. (I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to hear how you got that.)

 

[thawk]

Because you proved that LA is the direct sequel to ALttP. OoX can't come after ALttP because of the Master Sword. OoX can't come directly after FSA because Ganon is sealed and in OoX, he is dead. ALttP ending also applies that it was used before but as of now, I don't see a game with the master sword that would fit before ALttP at the current time.