Hyrule Warriors This game is an RPG?

[the8thark]

Yeah, but certain things like the definitions of RPGs shouldn't be left to opinions, for example, the definition of an RPG video game is a video game that uses stats, had experience points, levelling up(or something that resembles those things), if a game has those things, it's an RPG, if it doesn't , it's not an RPG, those aren't my opinions, those are facts
If you say those aspects do not define an RPG, then nothing does, and thus RPG is no longer a genre.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

Well we agree to disagree then. You think levelling and XP is all that a game needs to have to be classified as an RPG. I on the other hand feel it's more complex than that as I have stated earlier on this topic. And that's all there is to it. Our opinions differ on this subject. And yes I'm calling them opinions and not facts. Because we can both say we are speaking facts and we are according to our own definition of what an RPG is. But what that definition is, that's each based on our own opinions of what it should be.

I could list games that have levels and XP and are not RPGs. Three that come to mind are Hearthstone, Starcraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm. I'm sure there is more out there.
But as I said earlier in this post, we both agree to disagree. It's not about facts as you claim. It's about opinions. And how we each classify what an RPG is. And by this understanding neither of us is wrong, it's just what be believe.

 

[Salem]

I could list games that have levels and XP and are not RPGs. Three that come to mind are Hearthstone, Starcraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm. I'm sure there is more out there.

Isn't hearthstone a card game? Also, I played Starcraft2, I don't recall any exp point system, as for heroes of the storm, it is classified as a MOBA, isn't that already an RPG sub-genre?

 

[Ronin]

Yeah, but certain things like the definitions of RPGs shouldn't be left to opinions, for example, the definition of an RPG video game is a video game that uses stats, had experience points, levelling up(or something that resembles those things), if a game has those things, it's an RPG, if it doesn't , it's not an RPG, those aren't my opinions, those are facts
If you say those aspects do not define an RPG, then nothing does, and thus RPG is no longer a genre.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

By that very definition, I wonder if Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 would qualify as an RPG. In online play, it shows player stats, has weapons unlocks, a level system (stops at level 55, but goes on forever), and experience points earned by the amount of kills or scorestreaks. It'd be quite odd to consider a First Person Shooter a full-fledged RPG without the usual tropes [ie swords and magic instead of modern technology].

Hyrule Warriors is extremely different from just about any RPG, though; especially gameplay-wise. RPGs don't have the players run around into a horde of enemies slashing them to bits, which involves pretty much mashing buttons to implement a combination of attacks. This is widely different from conventional RPGs because of the lack of an action layout that the player chooses from (like the retro RPGs, but in a contemporary sense). Games such as Xenoblade and White Knight Chronicles allow you to customize your attacks on said layout, and after a cooldown period your character can perform an attack. That said, Hyrule Warriors is quite different as there is nothing to inhibit how many times they can attack.

Furthermore, Skyward Sword had a weapon upgrade system, another commonplace aspect in RPGs. While it's lacking in the things that you listed, it still shares similarities to HW that can have been deemed as RPGish.

In the end, I think that Hyrule Warriors is at heart a hack-and-slash game that borrows certain elements from RPGs. But it feels too much like a hacker for me to perceive it as anything more than that; rather, it feels and plays just like Metal Gear Rising: Revegeance and games in that same vein. Playing as Link, Zelda, Impa, or anyone wielding a sword, I'm especially subjected to that outlook, but it doesn't surprise me. After all, it's based on the Dynasty Warriors series, which places extra emphasis on hacking and slashing than split-second decisions that can affect the flow of battle, as in RPGs.

 

[Dio]

Yeah it is, it's the only game in the main series that is an RPG, I thought everyone already agreed on that?

Every game in the main series is an action adventure RPG.

You take on the role of a character who doesn't talk much and it is questionable whether link changes emotionally over the course of his adventure because the player takes on his role. But RPG's like Fallout 3 and skyrim are similar. In fact the main character is emotionless.

There is plenty of interaction with NPC's and whilst there is no levelling up system in the traditional sense you can upgrade items. In fact heart container collecting could count as upgrading your health.

 

[the8thark]

Isn't hearthstone a card game? Also, I played Starcraft2, I don't recall any exp point system, as for heroes of the storm, it is classified as a MOBA, isn't that already an RPG sub-genre?

• Hearthstone is a card game yes. But it also has 60 levels per hero which you gain XP to level them up.
• Starcraft 2 has experience you get after winning vs matches and you level up to earn more forum avatars and achievements.
• Heroes of the Storm has a similar playing matches gives you XP and levels to earn rewards. It is a MOBA. And MOBAs are not RPGs, they are MOBAS. Well I guess a MOBA could be an RPG as well if there was some kind of character personality evolution or some kind of loot system. But most of the popular MOBAs don't have both of these things.

All 3 of these 3 games have XP and levels but all 3 are not RPGs. We have a CCG, a RTS and a MOBA.

One could argue Harvest Moon is an RPG, and I'd probably agree with them. The main character evolves over the course of the game, lots of loot to buy in the shops to make your farming experience easier and many NPCs to chat too. Also the Harvest Moon games do have a decent story as well.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

Every game in the main series is an action adventure RPG.

I'm fairly certain there are NO games in the Zelda main series that is an RPG.
(I haven't played Zelda II though, so I'm not sure on that one)

There are no games in the main series (that I've played/seen played) that focus on earning EXP, leveling up, and revolve around numbers. (again- I can't include Zelda II because I don't know enough about it)

And, what makes an RPG an RPG, is the focus of numbers. Without it, it's not an RPG.

Granted, the origin of the term 'RPG' may have been taken from the words "Role-Playing-Game", but just because you play a role doesn't make it an RPG, when you're taking about genre of video games. SIMPLY because practically EVERY game with characters is a game in which the player 'plays the role of' someone. (and they have to differentiate because otherwise, it would be WAY TOO BROAD) Like- okay- take games like Super Mario- you play the role of Mario, but it's in NO WAY an 'RPG'. There re no levels in Super Mario, you don't gain EXP, and the enemies always deal the same damage- which again- is NOT based on numbers.

However, there is a Mario RPG. -that would be Paper Mario. You level up, it's turn-based, things revolve around numbers [attack, health, etc], it really is the epitome of what an RPG is.
And, if I recall, I think there was a different one before that- but I don't know enough about it. I think it was on the SNES.

But anyway, Like Super Mario, The main Zelda games are just an Action/Adventure game.
(with possibly the exception of Zelda II)

 

[the8thark]

However, there is a Mario RPG. -that would be Paper Mario. You level up, it's turn-based, things revolve around numbers [attack, health, etc], it really is the epitome of what an RPG is.
And, if I recall, I think there was a different one before that- but I don't know enough about it. I think it was on the SNES.

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is the SNES game.
Paper Mario is the N64 game as you mentioned.
Paper Mario Thousand Year Door is the Gamecube game.
Super Paper Mario is the Wii game.

Are they RPGs? I would say they are borderline. If you said they are RPGs for X reason I'd not disagree with you. These games can swing either way depending on how you talk about them.

And I think Zelda 2 is not an RPG, even though it does have levelling up and XP. But others say it is because Levelling up and XP = RPG. And that's cool. We're all allowed to have our different opinions.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

Paper Mario is the N64 game as you mentioned.
Paper Mario Thousand Year Door is the Gamecube game.
Super Paper Mario is the Wii game.

Yes. I already knew that. I own them all- well, I'm borrowing TYD from a friend- but aside from that one I have the rest.

Anyway- I said 'Paper Mario' referring to the SERIES.

And by the way, you forgot about Sticker Star for 3DS. xP

 

[the8thark]

Yes. I already knew that. I own them all- well, I'm borrowing TYD from a friend- but aside from that one I have the rest.

Anyway- I said 'Paper Mario' referring to the SERIES.

And by the way, you forgot about Sticker Star for 3DS. xP

I always forget that one. Thanks for reminding me
Also Mario And Luigi Superstar Saga feels very similar too, borderline RPG.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

We're all allowed to have our different opinions.

I have no tiffs with this. Others are allowed to have their opinions. and that's fine ^^
:notzd:

But Like someone else said- This isn't really an opinion.
I'm just going on what defines an RPG. I play many RPGs, I looked into them, found out they were called "RPGs" and learned what makes something an RPG, and am able to differentiate between RPG, and what isn't an RPG. (mostly- since SOME games blur the lines, or on boundaries)

Anyway, my point is- Whether or not something has certain criteria is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of truth, or falsehood. Regardless of what somebody might think, it will always be true that our sun, is a gigantic ball of fiery gas that will take us with is, should it ever go supernova.


Then again- there might be a fundamental problem with our language. We tend to make vague words, and it's hard to understand their reference sometimes. Though, I agree with Meinong that terms can reference things that don't exist. For instance- "Zelda" references a certain character, within the Legend Of Zelda franchise. (Sorry, I'm going off tangent here- I'm just thinking of some stuff I'm learning in my Analytic Philosophy class)

 

[the8thark]

Anyway, my point is- Whether or not something has certain criteria is not a matter of opinion.

That is true. And this something, RPG in this case does have a certain criteria to classify it as an RPG or not an RPG. I agree with you there.
The main issue though is what this criteria actually is, is up for debate. We can't agree on what this criteria should be. As it stands your criteria for what an RPG is, is different from mine. And that's totally cool. I don't see either of us being wrong here.

I do understand you do need rough accepted guidelines for this so game stores and the like can categorise their games. But past this I feel there is no right or wrong answer. Your criteria makes sense. It's basic but it works. My criteria is a much more complex way to define an RPG. Mine comes from Dungeons and Dragons and how it works.

Overall after thinking about it I think we are both right, based on our own criteria we came up with to classify if a game is an RPG or not.

It's not a science. It's more like classifying an artwork. It's a very subjective issue. And video games are forms of art, just modern forms of art.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

it stands your criteria for what an RPG is, is different from mine.

You missed what I was saying.
It's not "my" criteria. It's what it is defined as. It's what I was informed- I'm not taking any claims to it.
This is the information I was given, when I looked it up.

The issue here is not about criteria. It's about miss-use of the term 'RPG'...
Your reference is something different than my reference.

As far as I have found- The criteria I am referencing is what as known as an RPG.
The criteria you are referencing- might be "role-playing", which is different than RPG. (even though they may have similar term origins)

Isn't D&D a board-like game?
It's not a video game, I know that. (I thought it was when I was younger- only to be told it wasn't)

 

[the8thark]

You missed what I was saying.
It's not "my" criteria. It's what it is defined as. It's what I was informed- I'm not taking any claims to it.
This is the information I was given, when I looked it up.

The issue here is not about criteria. It's about miss-use of the term 'RPG'...
Your reference is something different than my reference.

As far as I have found- The criteria I am referencing is what as known as an RPG.
The criteria you are referencing- might be "role-playing", which is different than RPG. (even though they may have similar term origins)

Isn't D&D a board-like game?
It's not a video game, I know that. (I thought it was when I was younger- only to be told it wasn't)

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

From wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game
If you want your exact definition, there you go, you got it. And that definition is not an exact thing. It's very open to be interpreted differently depending on how you take what it says there.

Sorry for sounding harsh, but you kept insisting that there is only one answer and any other answer is wrong, so I did a quick search to find a generally accepted definition of an RPG. And the wikipedia one seems rather reasonable.

And D&D is originally a dice based game. Dice with pen and paper to record your character's adventures. Later on some video games were bade using various D&D rules. It's both really. It's set of base rules that can be adopted to table based games with pen and paper or specialised boards made up. The rules have also been adopted and used in some video games.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

From wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game
If you want your exact definition, there you go, you got it. And that definition is not an exact thing. It's very open to be interpreted differently depending on how you take what it says there.

Sorry for sounding harsh, but you kept insisting that there is only one answer and any other answer is wrong, so I did a quick search to find a generally accepted definition of an RPG. And the wikipedia one seems rather reasonable.

And D&D is originally a dice based game. Dice with pen and paper to record your character's adventures. Later on some video games were bade using various D&D rules. It's both really. It's set of base rules that can be adopted to table based games with pen and paper or specialised boards made up. The rules have also been adopted and used in some video games.

First of all- I don't always trust Wikipedia. xD
Granted, it gives you a good general definition, but it has many mistakes, since it's user-made.

Secondly, I'm sure this is what is more known as "Role-Playing"- and not really "RPG" in gaming terms.
From what I've gathered, there is a difference.

And, no- it's not like that. All I was saying was that I've always seen the criteria I'm referencing defined as "RPG"- which I gathered, is different than "Role-playing", since what I'm referring to only applies to certain games, where as "role-playing" does and "RPG" does not in some circumstances.

I don't know, maybe I'm not being clear... I know a lot of times it sounds good in your head, and you understand it, but others don't xD

Either way- There should be a different term for what I'm talking about than what you are talking about, because this apparently leads to confusion. :/
All I know is that what I'm talking about is referred to as 'RPG'. And if what you are talking about is referred to by the same term, then there's the problem. There needs to be a defining term for each one- and it can't be the same, or else that causes confusion.

But, sadly, 'RPG' is the only one I know for what I'm talking about, and I'm not that creative to come up with a new term all on my own. :/

 

[the8thark]

And, no- it's not like that. All I was saying was that I've always seen the criteria I'm referencing defined as "RPG"- which I gathered, is different than "Role-playing", since what I'm referring to only applies to certain games, where as "role-playing" does and "RPG" does not in some circumstances.

Gathered from where? Would you be kind enough to quote your source please.

I see your point of view. And actually in some ways I wish the definition of RPG you like was true for all RPGs. It'd make defining them so much easier.

And RPing doesn't matter where you do it, in a game or in a movie, on a internet forum, in a fan fiction etc etc. It's all still RPing. The format in which you RP can be different but the RPing you are doing still has the same definition. RPGs are just RPing in a game.

But you know we have both proved one thing. There is not one universally accepted definition of the term. And I think that's the issue. Someone needs to come up with a better way to describe all of this. A way that everyone can agree upon.