Interview:Iwata Asks: A Link Between Worlds: Difference between revisions

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{{IncInterview}}
{{Infobox|interview|
| date = November 19, 2013
| interviewee = [[Eiji Aonuma]], [[Hiromasa Shikata]], [[Shiro Mouri]], [[Kentaro Tominaga]], [[Koji Takahashi]]
| interviewer = [[Satoru Iwata]]
| description = ''[[The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds|A Link Between Worlds]]'' developers give a history of the game's development.
| source = [http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/a-link-between-worlds]
}}


==Sounds Like an Idea That's 20 Years Old==
==Sounds Like an Idea That's 20 Years Old==
Line 421: Line 427:


{{Interview/A|Everyone|(laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Everyone|(laughs)}}
==We can do that?!==
{{Interview/A|Iwata|What other challenges arose in making a new Zelda game for the Nintendo 3DS?}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|This time, knowing that we could use stereoscopic 3D, we tried putting in ideas making use of height, which we hadn't tried before.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|No one had any experience.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Right. So we didn't have any ideas to make us say, "This is it!" Maybe the director should talk about that.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Sure! (laughs) In ''The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past'', the place with the greatest difference between high and low was the [[Tower of Hera]], and it's structured so you go up and up. With that tower as a basis, we tried making a 3D dungeon. But I was still making ''Nintendo Land'' at that time, so Tominaga-san thought over that dungeon for a long time.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|We wanted to emphasize how tall the tower is, so I thought about making use of 60fps for something really satisfying, in getting the actions to feel great when you climb further and further up the tower. For example, if you hit a jump platform with the [[Hammer]], you fly to the floor above.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's quite a big difference. In Zelda games before, if you wanted to go to another floor, you had to use the stairs or...}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Or an elevator or...}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Yeah. But we weren't able to visually express the height by going to an upper floor that way.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|When you went up stairs, you just entered a closed room.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|But when you go up a floor this time, the lower levels overlap underneath. There's a mechanism you hit with the Hammer to jump, and when you launch up, it automatically switches to the upper floor. When I saw that, I thought, "This is it!"}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You realized you had discovered the true value of stereoscopic 3D.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's right.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|And the towers in ''A Link to the Past'' only consisted of interior floors, but in this game, we made use of the ability to enter walls so that  you can go to the tower's exterior.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|The one where you go into the wall and then around.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|Right.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Iwata-san, I had you look at the Tower of Hera before E3 2013, and you said, "We can do that?!" (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|I did! (laughs) When I saw that, the use of stereoscopic 3D gave me a strong sense for the potential of The Legend of Zelda, so impulsively I did say, "We can do that?!" (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|When I heard you say that, I was gratified. I thought, "This will work!" But we made the Tower of Hera long before showing it to you.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|That's right. We made it about the end of 2012, and then people began flooding in.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|We came back, too! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|In the end, we had an incredible number of people.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|First, we had new members look at the Tower of Hera and said, "This is what the next Zelda game will be like."}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|About the time you increased in number, Takahashi-san joined as a designer, right?}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|Yes. I joined soon after ''Animal Crossing: New Leaf'' finished.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Why did you make Link look like that when he enters walls?}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|We tried a number of approaches.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|I don't think it would have ended up that way unless the team hadn't really thought over and discussed how to handle those visuals.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|Yeah. We really hashed that out. When I joined the team, I could sense that Link's appearance in walls would be a big topic.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Until then, it was like in the prototype you showed me earlier. A 3D Link like in Spirit Tracks went into the wall looking the same way, only just in a flat 2D.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|That's right. When you're playing like normal, the top-down viewpoint changes to a side view when he enters the wall, and the conditions are different, so we thought Link's design should change, too.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|In an easy-to-comprehend way, you wanted to convey through a different style the conditional changes when Link goes into a wall.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|That's right. When phrased as "entering walls," I got the feeling there was a different world inside the walls.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|He isn't so much entering them as being painted on the surface.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|Right. So I thought it would be good to express it as "becoming a picture" rather than "entering the wall" and have it look like Link was painted on the surface of the wall.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|But then we needed a story for why Link becomes a picture. We decided to have a strange artist enemy appear who draws incomprehensible pictures to satisfy himself.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's when Takahashi-san drew an avant-garde Link. One eye was strangely bigger than the other. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|Because he's a strange artist. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Mouri-san was really against that when he saw it.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|He really was.}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|I think that was because I made the early prototype when a 3D Link sticks to the wall and becomes 2D.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Although you had made it in just one night, it made Shikata-san say, "That's it!" So it's only natural you were attached to it.}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|Yeah. I had a special affection for it.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Then Takahashi-san really worried over it.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|Yeah. I really did. I wasn't sure how to pull it off. Then I thought he should be a mural like in ancient buildings rather than just a picture, and in the end we reached the current style.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|When Mouri-san saw Link as a mural, he was convinced right away.}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|Yes. Totally convinced. Becoming a mural fits the atmosphere of The Legend of Zelda.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|In that way, there was a lot of trial and error until those visuals solidified, but there was also a time when you could do a lot when Link was a mural.}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|Like jumping.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Jump? (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|There was a time when Link was jumping around like Mario! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Oh! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|But we abandoned that completely.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|We decided to make becoming a mural only a means of movement so the players wouldn't get confused.}}
==Rethinking the Unquestioned==
{{Interview/A|Iwata|This game borrows the world of ''The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past'', but it's a completely new game.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Yes, that's right.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|The subtitle in Japanese is ''Triforce of the Gods 2'', but it's a completely different game, so they aren't using the "2" overseas.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Overseas, the subtitle for the earlier game was ''A Link to the Past''.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Now it will be ''A Link Between Worlds''.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Yes. This time instead of "linking" to the past, the setting of the new game takes place far in the future, and the story passes between the two worlds of [[Hyrule]] and [[Lorule]].}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|So that's why it's called ''A Link Between Worlds''.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Right. In Japan, though, it didn't feel out of place to add a "2" to ''Triforce of the Gods'', so we decided on that. Some of the staff, however, thought that would encourage people to think it is a remake.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|There was even talk of calling it The New Legend of Zelda like there's New Super Mario! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Everyone|(laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|But we use the game world of Hyrule and the top-down point of view. Because of those similarities, we decided on ''The Legend of Zelda: Triforce of the Gods 2'' here in Japan.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|While there are those similarities, there's the new system of becoming a mural. What else is new?}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Our development concept for this game was rethinking the conventions of Zelda, but that wasn't our theme from the start.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Yes.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|I've worked on The Legend of Zelda for 15 years, and every time a new game is released, I hear opinions from my friends. more than a few people get stuck somewhere as they're playing and can't get beyond that point. I feel like that is a big problem.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|If you get stuck on a dungeon somewhere, you can't move forward. If you keep trying for a while but it's no use, then you give up.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Right. I knew more than a few have that experience. Every time we make a new Zelda game, we always look for a different approach, and looked for a long time. When it was time to make this game, I had the vague idea that in ''A Link to the Past'', you could clear multiple dungeons in parallel. But when I played the game again, that wasn't very true.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's right.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|So I thought it would be good to do that for this game and we made it so that when it comes to the seven dungeons in the latter half, you can go to any of them as you like.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Instead of a single order, you can take them in any order.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Right. But that came with a number of problems.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|It would break down the structure of the games so far.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Right. In Zelda games, you go into a dungeon, get a new item, and use that item to find the next new dungeon.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|The traditional Zelda formula.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|That's why there always ended up being a set order, but this time I worried over it for a long time, which brings us back to rethinking the conventions of Zelda. Aonuma-san, take over for me.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Okay. (laughs) First, we talked about being able to buy all sorts of items in a shop.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Then you could beat any dungeon.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Yes. But when we talked about the prices, we realized cheap prices would allow players to easily get all the items, and then they wouldn't need rupees anymore.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You'd never want to cut grass to gather rupees.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Right. But on the other hand, if we made the prices high, then you wouldn't make any progress.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Right.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|So we wondered what to do, and what provided a hint was a certain hobby I've been obsessed with-but I won't say exactly what it is.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|All right. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|To play it, you need all kinds of equipment, and getting them all in the beginning is really hard.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|And it would be expensive.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Right. But there are places where you can rent everything for beginners who don't have the equipment. Then you feel like giving it a try.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Ok.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|So I tried it once, and it was a blast! So then...(forcefully) you want it! You want your own gear!!}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|I see. (laughs) Did you buy your own gear?}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Yeah. I shelled out to get one after another. Then, I was so happy to think these were my own! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|In other words, you got obsessed. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Totally. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Everyone|(laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|I thought we could use that in this Zelda game. I thought if players started by renting items cheaply, then they would want their own and work hard to collect rupees!}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Some have said they worked hard to collect rupees but then didn't have any way to use them.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Then everyone had lots of ideas—like making personal items upgradable—so we decided to run with it.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You choose whichever dungeon you like, you go in, and even if you get stuck, you can rent an item and go conquer a different dungeon.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Right. That kind of gameplay never existed before in the history of The Legend of Zelda.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|I wondered where the idea for the rental system came from, and it came from your own personal hobby! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's right! (laughs)}}
==A Challenge from the Developers==
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You can rent the appropriate items for each dungeon and beat them in any order, but you have to return the items you rent sometime.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Yes. For example, you might set a timer and know you have to return it the next morning when the rooster crows.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|We thought of all sorts of ideas for what happens when players don't return the items-like late fees-but nothing seemed to fit.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|What did you do?}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|We decided to have the item return on its own if you're defeated and it's game over. That's a little like ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask]]''. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|I see.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|And once you've rented an item, you don't want to return it, so you work really hard not to be defeated.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|If there's a clear drawback to being defeated, that adds tension to gameplay.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Exactly. Also, in some previous games in the series you get sent back to the entrance after you're defeated. If you make it all the way deep into the dungeon and then get plopped back out front...}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You lose enthusiasm.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|So another theme this time was making sure that players don't lose their desire to try again.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|So even if you get defeated, you can borrow an item again right away, and there are warp points in the dungeons. Even in the field, we put in a way that you can warp between places that are close to where you want to go.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|It's become easier to go around the game world.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|This Zelda game allows the player more freedom since you moved away from the one-track approach of previous games and rethought the conventional aspects of the series. Lastly, from your respective positions, would you comment on what you want players to check out? Let's start with Takahashi-san.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|All right. This time, you journey back and forth between Hyrule and Lorule. In design, we paid attention to the contrast between those worlds.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You want players to enjoy comparing the two worlds.}}
{{Interview/A|Takahashi|Yes. Characters in Hyrule may have a different role in Lorule, and while the arrangement of the buildings is the same, the shapes and materials can be completely different. We made it so you can enjoy the contrast, so I hope people will discover the differences while thoroughly adventuring through the landscape of those worlds.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|We made this game based on the landscape of ''A Link to the Past'', but we completely redesigned the dungeons. And we've packed in a lot of new content that didn't exist before, so I hope people will enjoy it.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|This isn't a remake, it's a new game that serves as a sort of sequel.}}
{{Interview/A|Tominaga|Absolutely. In a meeting, Aonuma-san said that this game has both newness and familiarity. Just as he said, I think this turned out to be a game that new players as well as fans of ''A Link to the Past'' can enjoy, so I hope everyone will try it out.}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|I hope people will check out how great 60fps looks, how easy it is to play, and how comfortable it feels.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You paid a lot of attention to that and stuck with it! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|Yeah. (laughs) Also, you can use StreetPass this time. This of course wasn't in the previous game.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|What can players do with StreetPass?}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|You can  battle against people you pass. If you win, you get gobs of rupees, so you can buy expensive items, or upgrade your items, so I hope people will pass lots of people.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|I hope people who have never played The Legend of Zelda will play it. As mentioned before, you can play multiple dungeons in parallel, and if you get stuck somewhere, there's always another approach ready for you to try, so if you don't give up, anyone can make it all the way to the end. And you can use the Play Coins you get for walking around with your Nintendo 3DS to hear hints, so I really hope beginners will enjoy it.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|And of course you recommend it to people who already love The Legend of Zelda games.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Of course! We put in a lot of gameplay elements that people can play with like item power-ups. And once you've cleared it, we've prepared a tough mode with stronger enemies, so I think people who have played previous Zelda games will find it incredibly rewarding.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|We made this game with the idea of rethinking the conventions of Zelda games, and we truly did take on all kinds of challenges. The ones who undertook that were younger developers, and during development, I often exclaimed, "We can do that?!"}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You thought so, too? "We can do that?!" (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Yeah! (laughs) Earlier, we discussed the Tower of Hera and how there's a mechanism you hit with the Hammer in order to jump. When Link flies up and the visuals switch automatically to the upper floor I thought, just like you, "We can do that?!" Afterward as well, the ideas everyone came up with often made me think, "We can do that?!" But while this is a new Zelda game, it will also make you think, "Oh, this truly is The Legend of Zelda!"}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|It's a Zelda game no matter who looks at it, but it's also new.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Right.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Listening to you talk today, I got a strong sense for how this Zelda game wouldn't have come to be if it weren't for the Nintendo 3DS platform. The developers took on various challenges, as if solving puzzles in Zelda games, so it must have felt great when as a result, the pieces came together and you found the correct answer! (laughs) As if that chime that rings when you solve a puzzle had rung inside your heads.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's right. (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|In a way, that is the real thrill of being a developer, so today I was able to hear a lot of stories about the satisfaction of achieving a sense of conviction that you've made something good.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Um, I forgot to mention something.}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Yes?}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|There are quite a lot of minigames.}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|Like the baseball game! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Baseball? In a Zelda game? (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Aonuma|That's right! (laughs) Like in a batting center, Link holds a bat and hits. It has nothing to do with the main game! (laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|(laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|Another one is a minigame with cuccos. It's easy at first, but the difficulty gradually increases. I couldn't clear the highest level. I don't think anyone on the staff did. I suppose after release only a few people in the world will...}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|You made it that challenging?!}}
{{Interview/A|Mouri|I asked Mario Club, and no one could clear the hardest level.}}
{{Interview/A|Shikata|So if anyone clears the highest level, be sure to brag!}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Here at the end, the developers offer a challenge!}}
{{Interview/A|Everyone|(laughs)}}
{{Interview/A|Iwata|Job well done, everyone.}}
{{Interview/A|Everyone|Thank you.}}
{{Cat|Iwata Asks|2013-11-19}}
{{Cat|A Link Between Worlds Interviews|2013-11-19}}
{{Cat|Interviews with Eiji Aonuma|2013-11-19}}
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