Breath of the Wild Zelda Wii U & Non-Linearity

[NESpowerhouse]

Zelda Wii U needs to bring non-linearity, especially after the incredibly linear Skyward Sword. Much like Metroid: Other M, Skyward was always holding your hand, telling you where to go; I hate that. While incredibly cryptic, the original Legend of Zelda did non-linearity the best because, while the dungeons were numbered, that didn't necessarily mean that you had to complete them in that order. That game gave you something that's in very few games today, and that was freedom, which is what Zelda Wii U could really use. I'm glad to see that Aonuma is starting to realize this and will hopefully give the player the choice to do some things in any order they choose.

 

[Spirit]

I don't get why everyone is taking 'We are having a think about dungeon order' as confirmation that ZeldaU will be totally non-linear. I get that is suggests non-linearity but it was never direct and it was never even hinted at what such thinking was going to lead to. I mean, he specifically said "dungeon order" so why then did everyone start talking about overworlds and quests? Do you not think it's jumping the gun a bit to say that ZeldaU is definitely going to be a non-linear experience, considering Aonuma never said that?

Anyway, I don't see any need for Zelda to go back to a much more non-linear style. Some degree of non-linearity, like with Ocarina of Time's Sage Temples or Skyward Sword's Song of the Hero Quest would be good and allow for some freedom, but linearity has its advantages and has a place in Zelda. Personally, I'd prefer a mix rather than a completely non-linear adventure. But we'll wait and see what the future holds.

Agree wholeheartedly, we dont know nintendo's strategy or ideas and it may not mean what most people think it does, especially with the playing by yourself thing. What i like about the news is that Nintendo look to be challenging the conventions of Zelda a lot more than what they attempted in Skyward Sword so i'm looking forward to that.

 

[DarkestLink]

Is there really anything else to make non-linear in Zelda other than dungeon order?

 

[Ventus]

Is there really anything else to make non-linear in Zelda other than dungeon order?

Overworld exploration. In recent Zelda games, the world "opens up" for you in that you have to visit 1 before 2 before 3 before 4 before 5...ad infinitum. In Skyward Sword, for example, there's no freedom to go from Skyloft to Lanayru Province *until* you complete the previous two provinces. The overworld was tethered to the story, and that was very detrimental to options. SS isn't the only victim; MM and onwards have suffered from this bane for a very long time.

 

[DarkestLink]

Overworld exploration. In recent Zelda games, the world "opens up" for you in that you have to visit 1 before 2 before 3 before 4 before 5...ad infinitum. In Skyward Sword, for example, there's no freedom to go from Skyloft to Lanayru Province *until* you complete the previous two provinces. The overworld was tethered to the story, and that was very detrimental to options. SS isn't the only victim; MM and onwards have suffered from this bane for a very long time.

The only reason that's the case though is because of dungeon ordering.

 

[The Wanderer]

Overworld exploration. In recent Zelda games, the world "opens up" for you in that you have to visit 1 before 2 before 3 before 4 before 5...ad infinitum. In Skyward Sword, for example, there's no freedom to go from Skyloft to Lanayru Province *until* you complete the previous two provinces. The overworld was tethered to the story, and that was very detrimental to options. SS isn't the only victim; MM and onwards have suffered from this bane for a very long time.

Indeed. It's hard to immerse yourself in a fantasy world when there are rock walls forcing the geography into tunnel-like sections everywhere, too many ledges rather than the realism of, well, real life, and you're told you can't progress past certain points until you do other things. There are other ways to build up anticipation than limiting the player's basic movement. There was a thread on here titled something along the lines of "Should Zelda Wii U be more like Skyrim?" It met with mixed reactions, but if Skyrim did anything better than Zelda, it must have been the overworld. I'm still waiting to play the game myself, so perhaps I'm entirely misguided, but I'm sure this is one area where Zelda really could take a leaf out of Elder Scrolls' book. And from there, we have both non-linear dungeons and overworld.

 

[phuonom]

So I am loving this thread because it's something I've never considered before. My first Zelda experience was OoT, and it was pretty linear. I spent the last year playing Skyrim, (and breaking to play Skyward Sword) and they both have their pros and cons. However, I prefer non-linear gameplay if its done well. There could be a linear "main quest" which would involve getting items in a certain order and following a specific dungeon order but the more I think about Skyrim, the more potential I see in a non-linear Zelda game. GREAT QUESTION!

 

[Tryuee]

More Side quests

I think they should really work in-depth on getting some great side quests. Side quests were always really fun for me (if not my favorite thing about some games) because you could kinda take a break from the big serious objective and trade some junk or stack pumpkins. I think that it shouldn't be exactly like Skyrim but it still should be a kind of non-linear experience that has other stuff to do besides the main quest.

 

[Cfrock]

What advantages are these? All I can count is having a static, one-way tunnel to the same dream ending we typically have. This gets boring personally, but it's easier that way because new players and seasoned players alike can keep on a road to the game's end.

I actually don't know what you mean with that bolded sentence.

One advantage of linearity is the ability to tell a much more detailed and engaging story. Yeah, yeah 'Nontadnoo no care bout stoorey' but since The Wind Waker, Zelda has put more focus on story, culminating in Skyward Sword's narrative which has some people P'd-Off by how in focus it was. But if Nintendo are committed to developing stories then linearity is a better style than non-linearity in that respect.

Another advantage would be puzzle depth. If, when desiging Dungeon 6, the level designers know you will have Items A, B, C, D and E then they can create puzzles and methods of movement that rely on all of them, devise ways to combine the use of multiple items. This can make later dungeons more challenging and more creative than earlier ones, something which we generally expect from video games. Sky Keep in SS was based on all the previous dungeons (and some overworld areas) and yet didn't make any particularly impressive use of the range of items you are guaranteed to have by that point. A real wasted opportunity in my book.

Linearity can also make it easier for the game to teach us. We can learn certain skills, certain patterns or certain item uses at an appropriate time, rather than finding ourselves in a situation that we either can't handle or get stuck on. I'm quite big on games teaching us a few things that we can then apply later on in the game and some linearity, particularly towards the beginning, can help facilitate that quite nicely.

The key ingredient here is that these examples can all be applied to a game with some degree of non-linearity and, in fact, the first two can be found in SS (unfortunately, rather than allow us to apply 'old tricks' to new scenarios, SS recycles the exact same scenarios in later areas, case in point, Sky Keep). SS is a very linear game and that makes it easier for Nintendo to tell their story and for dungeons to be designed with multiple items or abilities in mind. Then, we have the Song of the Hero Quest and we're free to go and do that in whatever order we choose. So, again, I think some non-linearity is a good thing, but I see absolutely no reason to remove linearity entirely.

 

[JuicieJ]

Zelda Wii U needs to bring non-linearity, especially after the incredibly linear Skyward Sword. Much like Metroid: Other M, Skyward was always holding your hand, telling you where to go; I hate that. While incredibly cryptic, the original Legend of Zelda did non-linearity the best because, while the dungeons were numbered, that didn't necessarily mean that you had to complete them in that order. That game gave you something that's in very few games today, and that was freedom, which is what Zelda Wii U could really use. I'm glad to see that Aonuma is starting to realize this and will hopefully give the player the choice to do some things in any order they choose.

Other M and Skyward Sword actually didn't hold your hand. They pointed you in a general direction and had you figure it out from there. They were linear games, yes, but the weren't NEARLY as linear as you're making them out to be.

 

[Tearbender]

I see both sides of the argument here, as in some cases non linearity in ZU could potentially be a sort of two steps forward one step back from SS from some of the new stuff achieved because of linearity but still I'd rather have it focus on non-linearity. That can be achieved well enough, the real issue here should be the overworld itself. Let's face it, ever since it hit 3D, Zelda has never had that great of an overworld. Most of it was bland or non engaging. I think with non linearity, this type of overworld is crucial in order for non linearity to truly blossom imo.

 

[Ventus]

Non linearity is not required for Zelda to survi e; look at the gratuitous sales that SS and the DS games have garnered. However, to maximize on the gaming experience, I do believe that non linearity is an absolute must.

 

[Castle]

If Nintendo intends to have non-linear dungeon order then they're going to have to have a more open overworld because you have to traverse the overworld to get to the dungeons.

It is in fact a linear overworld that forces the linear progression of dungeons in more recent Zelda titles. Whole regions are cordoned off until the game provides the means to access them and thus the dungeons therein.

In order to prevent players from getting too lost Nintendo might implement a sort of hub system like is seen in Mario64 (and what was initially intended for Ocarina of Time), where only like three or four areas might be available from the hub at a time. I tell ya what, if N does do this then it's the best way to get me to not play it.

 

[pauldavidmiller]

Non-linearity is awesome in principle, hard to develop in practice, and can be frustrating for gamers. There are precisely two examples of perfect non-linearity: The original Legend of Zelda, and WW's ocean-exploration. The drawbacks of non-linearity are many. How do you scale the difficulty as the game progresses? How do you make equipment and items useful, and not merely nice-to-have clutter? How do you vary the game experience so it isn't just a repetition of the first couple of hours again and again, against different terrain? Having items "unlock" areas and dungeons at least makes the gameplay different at each stage and in each area.

I think non-linearity should apply to overworld exploration. Give me access to the entire world all at once (with NO MAP!), but keep the dungeons more or less linear. (I liked a previous poster's idea of having 3 at a a time to choose from). That way I have freedom, but I also have quest progression.

 

[JuicieJ]

In order to prevent players from getting too lost Nintendo might implement a sort of hub system like is seen in Mario64 (and what was initially intended for Ocarina of Time), where only like three or four areas might be available from the hub at a time. I tell ya what, if N does do this then it's the best way to get me to not play it.

I think the best way to go about it is to deliver an overworld like that of The Minish Cap. There's a central hub with people to interact with and activities to perform (Castle Town), there's an open field surrounding said hub with content around every corner that's capable of being freely explored (Hyrule Field), and there are individual areas with their own elemental themes on the outskirts with a slightly more linear progression and puzzle-solving elements to ease the transition between overworld and dungeon.

Open exploration that requires navigation without the fear of getting completely lost.