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Zelda Wii and the Post-OoT Time Period

Locke

Hegemon
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Location
Redmond, Washington
I've been very interested in the time period between Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker recently, and I have come up with a possible story for the new Zelda title for the Wii that could explain some of it.
*Please note that this is basically just fanfiction with a few facts thrown in here and there.
*Warning: long read…though you may find it interesting.
*There may or may not be spoilers (to OoT and WW). I am not writing this with that in mind.


My story first started out as a something of a joke in the thread "Placement of New Zelda Title?" I don't remember exactly why I thought of the idea of a direct sequel to OoT, but it might have had something to do with Miyamoto's 'Link is older' quote and Aonuma's 'different era' quote. Of course the first thing I did was check with OoT's ending, and here's what I came up with:
A the end of OoT, Zelda tells Link that he "must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time."
"However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed." She then takes the Ocarina and says "When peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye." Then she tells Link to go home plays Zelda's Lullaby to send Link back to the past.

Now why did she say that she will say good-bye when peace returns to Hyrule as if it would be some future event? If peace had already returned to Hyrule and Link was leaving now and she was saying good-bye now, why wouldn't she just say "Since peace has returned to Hyrule, it is time for us to say good-bye?"
Also, why can't he just put the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time? Why must she use her own magic to send him back?

My answer: If Link were to replace the Master Sword, he would leave the AT, returning to the CT, and Zelda would never see him again("...the road between times will be closed"). I think she wanted for him to "regain [his] lost time," but at the same time didn't want him to be gone forever, either for personal reasons, or because she felt he was needed to continue to return peace to Hyrule, hence saying good-bye at a later time (perhaps it will take a while to rebuild after the devastation, or a new villain may appear).

Her solution was to use her magic (by playing her Lullaby) to split the power of the Master Sword holding Link in the AT from its physical casing (and its role as key to the SR) so Link can replace the sword in the Pedestal and keep the companion shown in the picture for the purpose of keeping him in the AT and assisting him in rebuilding Hyrule.

That would go along with 'Link being older' being such an important 'hint.'
Aonuma also said that TP was a "parallel" story to WW, so what's to stop them from paralleling MM?

Since I posted that, I kept having insights that supported it (like paralleling Majora's Mask), so it eventually grew out of being a joke and into a serious story (though still just a fanfic, not a theory).

So pulling together information from Ocarina of Time's ending, The Wind Waker's backstory, a few developer quotes on Zelda Wii, with a little help from Bomber Casey Hodges' article on "The Reconstruction Era of The Wind Waker" to pull it all together, I can now present to you my storyline for Zelda Wii:



With Ganondorf defeated and sealed away in the Sacred Realm, the first adventure of the Hero of Time has come to an end. His duties now completed, he "must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time. However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed." (Zelda, OoT) This would mean he could "regain [his] lost time" (Zelda, OoT) as a child, but would no longer exist in Zelda's time, the time of a broken and needy Hyrule.

The reason Link must return the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time is because it acts as the final key to the Sacred Realm, which must be locked so Ganondorf can't escape. However, this is only one of its three main powers. The second power of course, being the Blade of Evil's Bane, is the power to repel evil. Its third, and most interesting, is its control of time. It was able to send Link into the future (or more realistically to keep Link from experiencing the passage of time) when he was too young to become the Hero of Time. It displays this power again in The Wind Waker by keeping Ganondorf's minions frozen in time within Hyrule Castle until Link (the Hero of Winds) removes it from the Pedestal.

Zelda realized that she could use the other time-controlling object, the Ocarina of Time, to manipulate the Master Sword's control over Link's life. Using her magic as a Sage and member of the royal family in the form of Zelda's Lullaby, which as Impa stated had "mysterious power in [its] notes" (OoT), she separated the Master Sword's powers over evil and time from its physical casing and role as the key to the Sacred Realm. These two powers, when separated from the Sword, became the character we see in the concept art.

Link is now able to replace the Master Sword in the Pedestal of Time, allowing the Master Sword from the past, which was still capable of controlling time, to pull Link back to begin the Child Timeline. But the essence of the present Master Sword's time control still existed in the girl, and held Link in the present as well, continuing the Adult Timeline.


There's the intro, and believe me, it was probably much harder to describe than to understand.
Now, with the help of his new companion, Link will have to help rebuild Hyrule. Of course, that would make for a very boring story, so a new antagonist must appear to threaten the reconstruction of Hyrule. I don't really have too many ideas of the actual story of the game; I mostly concentrated on the beginning and ending, as those are the most important parts to tie into the other games.

Hyrule Castle would be the first thing to rebuild (possibly the main focus of the game). I have to give Caseman credit for this one, though I should have thought of it myself:
Casey Hodges said:
Since the old location of the castle was turned into a pit of lava, the Temple of Time, the biggest surviving structure, was remodeled into the new Hyrule Castle. This is why the Master Sword is now secretly located beneath the castle in The Wind Waker.
(NOTE: This quote is just referring to the time period, not to its connection to ZW. Casey does not necessarily agree with this placement of ZW.)


At the end of the game, with the villain defeated and the new Hyrule Castle constructed, Link must return the spirit of the Master Sword to its casing, now in the hidden room underneath the castle. This will be a very depressing moment, as Link would essentially die at this point (He would cease to exist on the AT.)

Looking at some intricacies of the "road between times," Perhaps Link would not even go back in time at all until after this story. This would relieve some of the confusion of the "Master Sword from the past … pull[ing] Link back to begin the Child Timeline." It would also give young Link the additional knowledge of what happened after Ganondorf was defeated, and relieve some of the negative feelings of Link 'dying,' as his experiences would still be remembered by young Link.



This is really the end of my Zelda Wii story, but it's not everything I have to say about the time period between OoT and WW. So if this is all you can take, then go ahead and stop here, but if you're still interested please read on!
 
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Locke

Hegemon
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Location
Redmond, Washington
Many years later, Ganondorf escaped from the Sacred Realm, and now there is no Hero of Time to stop him, as depicted in the backstory of The Wind Waker. As Casey described, he was probably more cautious this time. First, he killed all the Sages so they couldn't seal him again and the Master Sword would lose its power to repel evil, then he began to mass his army around Hyrule Castle. With the Sages gone and King Daphnes unable to defeat Ganondorf by himself, the people began to pray to the goddesses.

Daphnes describes the resulting events very well:
King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule said:
When the gods heard our pleas, they chose
to seal away not only Ganon, but Hyrule
itself...and so, with a torrential downpour
of rains from the heavens...

Our fair kingdom was soon buried beneath
the waves, forgotten at the bottom of
the ocean.

Yet all was not lost. For the gods knew
that to seal the people away with the
kingdom would be to grant Ganon's wish
for the destruction of the land.

So, before the sealing of the kingdom,
the gods chose those who would build a
new country and commanded them to take
refuge on the mountaintops.

I will even venture to specify each goddess's individual task:

Din, goddess of power, who originally "cultivated the land and created the red earth" (The Great Deku Tree, OoT), selected portions of the land to rise up as mountains (some of these "unnatural mountains" are pointed out in Casey's article). Most notable of these 'artificial' mountains is Forest Haven in WW. The Great Deku Tree can't just get up and climb a mountain; one had to have been created beneath him.

Farore, goddess of courage, who "produced all life forms" (GDT, OoT), transformed some of the races to better suit what would become their new environment. She removed the tall ears of the Hylians, possibly for the reason Casey suggests, which I will not get into here (I'm not sure if I agree with it or not.) She also changes the Kokiri into the Koroks fore more ease of transportation across the sea, as they would be tasked to spread the land in the future so a new Hyrule could be built. Another such case is the Zora, but I'm still not quite sure about what exactly happened to the Rito between this point and WW.

And finally, once all the chosen ones were on their way to the mountaintops and Ganondorf had penetrated the walls of Hyrule Castle, it was Nayru's turn. Commonly associated with both time and water, her task was twofold: Through the Master Sword, which is now complete and in the secret room underneath Hyrule Castle after the events of Zelda Wii, she froze Ganondorf's army in time, in much the same way the Master Sword froze Link until he could become the Hero of Time. This is shown when the Hero of Winds pulls it from its pedestal and the flow of time resumes. She then created a torrential downpour to bury Ganondorf, along with Hyrule, beneath the ocean.


*Updated 12/23/09*
Many of the population were disappointed at the goddesses’ actions, and began to reject them. Though they were saved from Ganondorf, their land and homes had been destroyed. "Probably out of spite for these attitudes, the Goddesses removed their pointed ears, visually signifying the end to the Hylian race and the end of their once sacred bond." (Caseman) Though I would specify that this would be Farore's doing.

Another display of Farore's power was seen in the Kokiri, the race she is most connected with. With forests very scarce on the mountaintops which would become islands, she worried of the survival of the Kokiri in their child form. She changed their form to accommodate an easier mode of transportation between the islands: riding on the winds. She also entrusted them with the task of rebuilding the land with the help of their guardian deity, the Great Deku Tree.

Din had commanded Jabu-Jabu to move to Lake Hylia before creating a new mountain (probably just north of the lake) in preparation for the Zoras’ new home. The Zoras inhabiting Lake Hylia climbed this new mountain when they were made more land-dependant by Farore, while those who remained in Zora’s Domain climbed Death Mountain. At this time there are two colonies of Zora, both in a more human form.

Even though the goddesses gave them Valoo (created by changing the heart of Volvagia) to help them survive and rebuild, the Gorons were not satisfied with their tiny island. Except for the few who remained as merchants, they set off on rafts or boats (probably rafts like those used by the merchants) to find a larger body of land.

With the Gorons gone, Valoo decided to help the Zora instead. He did so by giving them the gift of wings, transforming the race into the Rito.
*End Update*





Hundreds of years later, Ganon, who was severely weakened by the seal but still aware of the passage of time, managed to create a portal to the world above that Ganondorf, who had remained dormant, used to escape his prison. The demon Ganon was still trapped, however, so Ganondorf had to take measures to free it. Still cautious from his original defeat, he "seems to have erected some sort of magical barrier down here in Hyrule, blocking our path to the temples," (King Daphnes, WW) so no one could revive the Master Sword's power.

The goddesses saw that Ganondorf had escaped and created a portal of their own through which King Daphnes, who had remained behind in case something like this would happen, could reach the world above to search for the Hero of Time.
Great Deku Tree said:
When the worst of all possible events
comes to pass, and Ganon is revived
once again...

One shall seek the hero who is destined
to defeat the great evil...

That is the destiny the goddesses have
placed upon the King of Red Lions.

Since that day, he has been sailing the
Great Sea in search of a young hero not
unlike yourself.
He eventually found Link, leading into the events of The Wind Waker.
Unfortunately, when Link pulls the Master Sword from the Pedestal of Time, he releases Ganon from his seal…
 
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P

Pablo

Guest
I like. Indeed I do.

What I like the most tho, is that you have admitted the inconsistencies. Many people I see make wild claims and then say it has no inconsistencies! Shocking :L We shall have to see tho until its released!

~Pablo
 
G

Gon-Gorooon

Guest
I'm too lazy too read the entire thing, so can I have a condensed version?
 

Locke

Hegemon
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Location
Redmond, Washington
Thank you Pablo

I'm too lazy too read the entire thing, so can I have a condensed version?
Lol, just read that first quote if you want the gist of what I'm saying.

I added a little on the races, though I will most likely expand on that in the future. I will probably also mention the two new sages (Wind, Earth) in the next update. Anything else I should think about?
 
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Joined
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Location
Kentucky, USA
Is this just an idea, or what you really think might happen? Because according to WW's backstory, nothing happens between OoT and WW. The intro of the game describes this pretty well.

It says that the Hero of Time defeated Ganon, then disappeared. He disappeared because Zelda sent him back to his childhood. The intro then says that later on, Ganon found a way to escape the Evil Realm (or if you want to say its the Dark World, that works too I suppose). The Hero of Time was no where to be found because he had been sent back in time. No one was around to save Hyrule, so the Goddesses flooded it, but apparently kept it safe in some kind of bubble. Everyone from Hyrule went up to the islands atop the sea, then many years later we come to WW.

There is no other legend talked about in WW besides that of the Hero of Time, more specifically what that Hero done while he was an adult. If there were another Hero in Hyrule, then the people wouldn't have had to request help from the Goddesses. If somehow the Hero had of been able to be "replicated" as you suggest, then that would have been documented as well. We know that that didn't happen, and that no Hero existed after OoT and until the Hero of Winds in WW, AND that no event took place between OoT and WW, all based on WW's intro.
 

Locke

Hegemon
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Joined
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Location
Redmond, Washington
The only quote from WW (that I can recall) that mentions the Hero leaving is
King Daphnes said:
When the Hero of Time was called to
embark on another journey and left the
land of Hyrule, he was separated from the
elements that made him a hero.
There's nothing that says he left immediately after OoT. He very well could have stayed for a while and gone on another journey later in his life.

He didn't come back when Ganon escaped, so that fits the BS too.

I'm not entirely sure whether MM would start after OoT or ZW. Zelda's "regain your lost time" quote would imply after OoT, but after ZW would make more sense time-wise (Link would not have to be "replicated," as you say).

This story wouldn't be mentioned in WW because it isn't very important. WW's BS is all about Ganon/dorf and how Hyrule got flooded. The rebuilding of Hyrule or any minor (compared to Ganon) antagonist wouldn't add anything to the story, so it wouldn't be included. (plus the developers wouldn't have had this game in mind when they were writing WW.)


The whole time-thing seems a bit off, but I don't think it conflicts with WW's BS at all.

Oh, and to answer your first question, I'm not really sure. I guess it's something I think could happen, though I doubt they'd actually do it.
 

TVTMaster

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It's a secret to everybody.
I'm pretty satisfied as to why this doesn't contradict WW's backstory, except for one detail- if there, in fact, was a Hero, why didn't he rise up to save Hyrule?
I think, here, you'd also have an opportunity to explain why the Triforce of Courage is split into eight- perhaps, after the game's climax, wherein X villain is vanquished, Link is killed, (or, possibly, after doing X evil act to stop the villain, is judged by Farore and is separated from the Triforce of Courage, thus becoming unable to rise as a hero in time of crisis.
 
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Location
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The only quote from WW (that I can recall) that mentions the Hero leaving is
There's nothing that says he left immediately after OoT. He very well could have stayed for a while and gone on another journey later in his life.

The games themselves say he left immediately after OoT. You are trying to say that Adult Link was somehow replicated to exist in the Adult Timeline. That was never hinted at anywhere or documented because if it happened we would have heard about it. Link was sent back right after he defeated Ganon, and shortly after he returned is when he went looking for Navi. He probably had enough time to set and miss her or something then decide to leave. There's no way a hero existed after the Hero of Time or he would have been mentioned in WW's backstory or, at the very least, sometime during WW.

He didn't come back when Ganon escaped, so that fits the BS too.

I'm not entirely sure whether MM would start after OoT or ZW. Zelda's "regain your lost time" quote would imply after OoT, but after ZW would make more sense time-wise (Link would not have to be "replicated," as you say).

This story wouldn't be mentioned in WW because it isn't very important. WW's BS is all about Ganon/dorf and how Hyrule got flooded. The rebuilding of Hyrule or any minor (compared to Ganon) antagonist wouldn't add anything to the story, so it wouldn't be included. (plus the developers wouldn't have had this game in mind when they were writing WW.)

The thing is, there's nothing that hints to this. We know pretty much nothing about Zelda Wii, so deciding where it goes, especially in a place that it can't go, is about impossible.

MM starts after OoT. Link is a child when he returns, then he goes looking for Navi. If you are trying to put Zelda Wii between OoT and WW, then it surely wouldn't have anything to do with MM because that's on an entirely different timeline.

Any legend would be of importance that would have happened during this period. Wind Waker's intro clearly sets up what has happened, which is the Hero of Time defeating Ganon, disappearing, Hyrule experiencing a period of peace for generations and then, Ganon escaping. Right after it talks about the Hero of Time, the intro says "until one day, a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom". Until one day, meaning that everything was apparently good until that day. It didn't say that another hero rose up and did something else, it just went from the Hero of Time to the day that Ganon escaped. Therefore, nothing happened during that time. And if it was something so small that it wouldn't ever be mentioned in WW's intro, then its not even worth making an entire game out of. And personally, I want Zelda Wii to be more important than that. At least I hope it is.

The whole time-thing seems a bit off, but I don't think it conflicts with WW's BS at all.

It definitely does. WW's BS makes every hint it can to say that nothing has happened since Ganon's defeat in OoT. It emphasizes the importance of the legend of the Hero of Time throughout the entire game, from the intro of the game, to Link's clothes, to the stained glass in Hyrule Castle... There are tons of references to OoT in this game because it was the last big thing to occur. If something else happened, like I said, it would have been noted by now.

Before Spirit Tracks came out, I remember there being a lot of people who said it would come before WW and after OoT. Those people didn't realize that it actually couldn't have done that, simply because nothing can happen during that period. My point here is that if something was going to happen during that period of time, it already would have. If there was some even that would take place between OoT and WW of any importance, where some hero would have rose up to defeat some evil, it would have happened. The developers obviously don't want this to happen because they made it practically impossible when they wrote the intro to WW.
 

Locke

Hegemon
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Location
Redmond, Washington
The games themselves say he left immediately after OoT.
Where? In OoT, Zelda tells him to "regain [his] lost time," but her "when peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye" quote can easily contradict that.

You are trying to say that Adult Link was somehow replicated to exist in the Adult Timeline. That was never hinted at anywhere or documented because if it happened we would have heard about it.
We didn't know about the timeline split in OoT until TP (iirc). It happened, but we never heard about it. Also, I'm not sure if he'd actually be 'replicated.' It may just be that he didn't go back in time until later.

There's no way a hero existed after the Hero of Time or he would have been mentioned in WW's backstory or, at the very least, sometime during WW.
There isn't another hero. This is the HoT.


Any legend would be of importance that would have happened during this period. Wind Waker's intro clearly sets up what has happened, which is the Hero of Time defeating Ganon, disappearing, Hyrule experiencing a period of peace for generations and then, Ganon escaping. Right after it talks about the Hero of Time, the intro says "until one day, a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom". Until one day, meaning that everything was apparently good until that day. It didn't say that another hero rose up and did something else, it just went from the Hero of Time to the day that Ganon escaped.
Again, no other hero appeared. Is that the Japanese translation? The NoA translation says "But then...", but I can't find the Japanese translation anywhere.

And if it was something so small that it wouldn't ever be mentioned in WW's intro, then its not even worth making an entire game out of. And personally, I want Zelda Wii to be more important than that. At least I hope it is.
I agree.

If something else happened, like I said, it would have been noted by now.
They wouldn't have had this game in mind back then.

My point is that just because something isn't said to have happened does not mean it can't happen.
I also think I made it pretty clear that I don't think they would try to squeeze a story here, just that they could.


if there, in fact, was a Hero, why didn't he rise up to save Hyrule?
He already had, in OoT. Or do you mean when Ganon escaped? That would be because he's gone by then.

I think, here, you'd also have an opportunity to explain why the Triforce of Courage is split into eight- perhaps, after the game's climax, wherein X villain is vanquished, Link is killed, (or, possibly, after doing X evil act to stop the villain, is judged by Farore and is separated from the Triforce of Courage, thus becoming unable to rise as a hero in time of crisis.
Wind Waker already explains that:
King Daphnes said:
When the Hero of Time was called to
embark on another journey and left the
land of Hyrule, he was separated from the
elements that made him a hero.

It is said that at that time, the Triforce of
Courage was split into eight shards and
hidden throughout the land.
When he went back in time, the ToC was split and hidden. (I think AoL's BS takes place shortly after this. I might add that after giving it more thought.)
 
C

Carmen Sandiego

Guest
Where? In OoT, Zelda tells him to "regain [his] lost time," but her "when peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye" quote can easily contradict that.
Majora's Mask says "ohi". ):
He leaves to look for his ~*lost friend*~.

Unfortunately, when Link pulls the Master Sword from the Pedestal of Time, he released Ganon from his seal…
Ganondorf was already unsealed by this time? We saw him in the Forbidden Fortress, I thought. :[
 

Locke

Hegemon
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Location
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Majora's Mask says "ohi". ):
He leaves to look for his ~*lost friend*~.
Thank you, I found the quote now. Though I could fairly easily bend its meaning to fit my story, it still wouldn't be very believable. I guess I'll just have to accept it as contradictory evidence.

Ganondorf was already unsealed by this time? We saw him in the Forbidden Fortress, I thought. :[
Ganondorf had managed to escape, but I was referring to this quote (by Ganondorf at Forsaken Fortress):
Ganondorf said:
You see, it is also a sort of key...
a most wretched little key that has kept
the seal on me and my magic intact!

By withdrawing the blade, you have
broken that seal...
I took that to mean that Ganon, the source of Ganondorf's power, was still sealed until Link pulled the MS.


small update. added the Kokiri which I somehow forgot before, along with other things.
I just ran into a roadblock with my forest/water sages = wind/earth sages theory. I had thought that the goddesses changed their focus at the time of the flood (not much forest left, doesn't want anyone to have claim to the water), but the sages of wind/earth were killed by Ganon before the flood, and the temples were obviously constructed before then also (most of them being underwater, the entrance sealed by Ganondorf's barrier). Anyone have an explanation? I don't really like the idea of them being two entirely new sages.
 
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Where? In OoT, Zelda tells him to "regain [his] lost time," but her "when peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye" quote can easily contradict that.

We didn't know about the timeline split in OoT until TP (iirc). It happened, but we never heard about it. Also, I'm not sure if he'd actually be 'replicated.' It may just be that he didn't go back in time until later.

I don't really remember when she said that. If she said it before Ganon was defeated, then it makes perfect sense that after peace had returned (after Ganon was defeated), that they said goodbye. If it was after Ganon was defeated, it could mean she was talking about after Link is sent back. Either way, Link didn't stick around. The ending of OoT shows Zelda send him back with the Ocarina.

Again, no other hero appeared. Is that the Japanese translation? The NoA translation says "But then...", but I can't find the Japanese translation anywhere.

Nope. Looked it up and made sure before I typed it.
 

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