Zelda Theory-Kaepora Gaebora

[Blue Window]

The question is left, then, what ancient sage Kaepora Gaebora is a reincarnation of, unless Rauru is already dead and is reincarnated while his spirit at the same time is inside the Sacred Realm (but that seems a little bit far-fetched in my opinion).

/Blue Window

 

[noother84]

The question is left, then, what ancient sage Kaepora Gaebora is a reincarnation of, unless Rauru is already dead and is reincarnated while his spirit at the same time is inside the Sacred Realm (but that seems a little bit far-fetched in my opinion).

/Blue Window

Have we ever seen Rauru outside of the Sacred Realm other than in his owl form? Maybe he can only leave the Sacred Realm/Light Temple in that form and he presents himself to Link as his original human form.

The Temple of Time was built by him "in ancient times", so maybe his physical body died?

 

[TheGermanLegend]

In OoT it's pretty clear that the sages have to die in order to be awakened. Think about it, Saria disappears, we don't see her until she is awakened. Darunia goes to battle Volvagia, we later follow and he is nowhere to be seen. Ruto says hello then isn't seen again until we complete the temple. Impa is said to have gone to the temple to fix what was going on yet she is never seen. Nabooru, despite Twinrova saying they were going to brainwash her again, goes up in smoke. The chamber of sages is not present in the real world and we only seem to be able to access it in spirit form (it is after all where Link's spirit is kept during the seven years). As well as that, there's the ending. We see Mido and King Zora presumably grieving at the end. Why would they be grieving if Saria and Ruto were alive and well?
If what I say is true, then yes Rauru is dead and his spirit is who we are really talking to. In order to talk to us in the real world he can't take his human form as that has died. Instead, much like the Hero's Shade I guess, he takes the form of an animal.

Zelda is also a sage and she's very alive. Also at the end of the game all the sages aside from Rauru return to Hyrule (Death Mountain to be exactly ;D)

 

[DuckNoises]

In a recent interview with Aonuma on SS, this question was asked, and Aonuma replied that they built the character from the ground up, and he inadvertently ended up bearing resemblance to Kaepora Gaebora, so the development team continued along that track primarily for the Easter Egg factor. The way it's phrased implied that they were never meant to be relatives initially, and it was mostly just a tease on Nintendo's part.

 

[Blue Window]

To TheBlueReptile

It is certainly possible that the Sages needed to die prior to their "ascension". However, it seems very strange if this fate is not shared by all sages. Zelda is obviosuly alive. I also think that the game does not suggest at all that Nabooru died (remember that Twinrova wanted her alive so that they could control the Gerudo).

Originally Posted by Nabooru

Kid, let me thank you. Heheheh...look what the little kid has become in the past seven years--a competent swordsman! By the way... I really messed up... I was brainwashed by those old witches and used by Ganondorf to do his evil will... But isn't it funny? That a person like me could turn out to be the Sage of Spirit! And now, I'm going to fight them as one of the six Sages! Heh heh... I'm going to pay them back for what they did to me! Kid... No... Link, the Hero of Time! Instead of keeping the promise I made back then, I give you this Medallion! Take it! If only I knew you would become such a handsome man... I should have kept the promise I made back then...

Moreover, it seems a bit awkward if the Sacred Realm Sages could function as Sages after their death, when neither the Master Sword Sages nor the Mirror of Twilight Sages nor the Seal War Sages can do that.

Anyway, it does seem like the Seven Sages leave their physical bodies after their "awakening", though.

But, who knows?

/Blue Window

 

[Admiral Makar]

I think you're absolutely correct! I love the nerdy easter eggs Nintendo puts in their games. Skyward Sword is chock full of them!!

 

[cucco002]

They may be dead, but they may not need to be dead to be sages, however, they may be at the chamber of the sages in the sacred realm because they are dead, Zelda is pretty much alive (I think) and we never see her in the chamber. Also, it would be weird for sheik to send link to awake the sages, because they are going to be dead soon, don't you think?

 

[Admiral Makar]

To Blue Reptile and Cocco002 ...

I really don't think we should buy too much in to the speculation that they are dead. The closest evidence we have is in Twilight Princess. I'll get to that in a moment but I wanna say for now that we should not hold TP to change our theories for ALL games.

In other games, to me, it seems pretty strait forward. I'm talking about Ocarina of Time and the Wind Waker. It makes sense that in OoT, they are simple spirited away to the light realm to become Sages. The light realm is their sacred temple and since they have responsibilities (like Zelda did in SS -- she couldn't just run and talk with Link even for a moment), Sages such as Saria, for example, cannot return home. This is why people are mourning for her. This is why she leaves without a trace. Once she is awakened as a sage she runs off to fulfill her duties.

The reason we see people who seem like ghosts, is because the Sages have magical powers. Heres my idea -- I think they can telepathically project themselves outside the light realm (or wherever the sage is supposed to be, depending on the game). I think they do it on special circumstances. Rauru needed to help Link on his quest so he showed up on earth (or, Hyrule rather) as the physical form of Kaepora Gaebora. He was kind of like a Prophet sent from heaven in a physical form (Sorry, I use a religious references here to help illustrate my point, and because the producers have used religious parallels for inspiration in the past.). And as for the reincarnation of Rauru, I think BlueWindow summed that theory up ^above^. The king of the red lions in WW needed to stay in the temple, so he transferred his spirit into something physical too - the boat- in order to help the hero with his quest. I think the Sages go awol in physical shapes when the hero looks like he's in trouble or looks like he is in danger of failing his quest to conquer evil. And, apparently, to run to death mountain and celebrate lol.

Now that I mention it, I think the reason they were on death mountain and not lon lon should not be too looked into. I've seen those credits and people are kind of celebrating everywhere. I think the reason they are off to the side, on a mountain top, is simply to reinforce that they are now otherworldly beings. They are sages. They are on a different plane than Hyrulians now.

As for the TP sages. I dunno... TP includes the Dark Tribe. The Dark Tribe/ Elder Sages , the Twili, The alternate dimention and the Dark Realm all kind of throw a crazy wrench into things. considering you have many more visual hints to the sages being alive as compared to just TP showing seemingly dead sages, I would just go woth the more common idea. I think TP was weird. Not superficially, but rather as compared to the plots of other games. It kinda threw me off. We don't even know what the sages were doing. Maybe they were operating telepathically from the light realm when they attempted to execute ganon. Haha I have no idea. But it is such a confusing part of the story line that I try not to let it change my thoughts of other story lines.

 

[TheGermanLegend]

I know I have nothing to back it up but thats how I understand this whole sages-mess:

Some time after SS the ancient sages (Rauru and being the sage of light and Gaepora being their leader) built the ToT.

When they were about to die they used some sage-magic or something like that so that their sprit can stay in Hyrule even after their dead. These sprites were the ones we see in TP. (Rauru looks like a hylian in OoT because he's in the SR. And we all know this place has strage shapshifting abilitys)

Because as sprits they don't have their full power they have to unite with a living person. That's what in OoT is refered to as "being awaken". At the end of OoT they seperate again and Saria and Co. return to Hyrule.

 

[TheGermanLegend]

I thought a bit about it and I noticed the only reason I want them to be alive is because in OoT we don't see any of the sages but Darunia having kids. In my timeline as well as in the so-called-offizial timeline the OoT-sages are the sealing-war-sages which means they have to have children in some way.(ALttP-Maidens are descendants of the OoT-Sages). This means the OoT-Sages (but Darunia) have to return to Hyrule at some point to have kids.

 

[Admiral Makar]

@ Blue Reptile Very impressive argument! :nod: I wasn't feeling you're theory at first but now that you've explained it I think it could go either way. Like you said, we have shakey evidence to support either theory so hopefully the next title in the series will be a little more satisfying.

As for Kaepora Gaebora / Rauru now?
... Ehh... if the theory I was getting at is close to the truth I think he is kind of timeless, and just keeps projecting himself. Or his anscestors keep projecting themselves as an owl. This is wear we go into a LOT of nitty gritty speculation. Probably reading too into it with a Rauru reincarnation. Then again, who knows. If the theory discussed by B.R. is true then perhaps he is a desceased sprite appearing all over the game. Maybe the King of the Red Lions is dead too (I need to replay WW again; I can't remember if the game confirms the King is Dead or Alive). Hmm.. Now that you made you're point I keep contradicting my own ideas back and forth... I'm just going to drop it, lol.

Question though --- *SPOILERS AHEAD* Looks like everyone is getting confused about the being awakened as a sage thing (in my opinion, rather). I thought skyward sword cleared that up when we saw the lengthy process Zelda went through to be awakened as the Goddess Hylia. I know the sages' awakening won't be THAT in-depth but I guess you could also compare it to how each of the Link descendant gets "awoken" as the new hero of his time aka realizes his quest or is chosen through a series of events to be the courage bearer.

I think it's more of a metaphor than a coming back to life thing. I think the reason they chose to say awakened as a sage instead of "Chosen as the sage of XXX" is because hyrules fate is nearly always already set into motion. These characters had their destiny chosen for them the day they were born, yet they didn't know it. Link has to help them realize it, to set the events into motion. I'm putting stock into this theory of the way Zelda works because a lot of fantasy games & books do this whole "destiny" theme and the "there's still a chance the fate could change if the protagonist doesn't play his part" deal.

I thought a bit about it and I noticed the only reason I want them to be alive is because in OoT we don't see any of the sages but Darunia having kids. In my timeline as well as in the so-called-offizial timeline the OoT-sages are the sealing-war-sages which means they have to have children in some way.(ALttP-Maidens are descendants of the OoT-Sages). This means the OoT-Sages (but Darunia) have to return to Hyrule at some point to have kids.

I think I felt this too, years ago. But now everything is so watered down with magical reincarnations that I can't even say whether or not I need to consider physical lineage a deal breaker with theories. Oof!

 

[TheGermanLegend]

I only ever played aLttP once when I was seven. So correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't the use of the words descendants be used in a spiritual sense? Reason being is simply that Saria is eternally a child and so can't have kids anyway. Nice find if not.

We who carry the blood of the seven wise men do not possess strong power any more, either

As members of the blood-line of the seven wise men, they have power that will surely help you.

This is a treasure passed down by the families of the wise men. I want you to
have it.

It is stated a few times in the game that the OoT-Sages and the ALttP-Maidens are related by blood.

I am, indeed, Sahasrahla, the village elder and a descendant of the seven wise men.

Also the maidens aren't the only one to be "descendants" of the OoT-Sages. Their familys are too, and I doupt that there can be more then one "descendant" if it's only meant in a Spiritual way.


I'm not sure about Saria but the maiden all look pretty young so it's possible that one of them is a Kokiri...

I believe you will destroy Ganon. I will return to my original form at that time. ... ... ... ... ... May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce

And while reaserching I just found this quote. The Maiden says she'll return to her original form once Ganon is defeated. This could mean that the same thing happends in the end of OoT. The sages return to their normal life ;D

 

[KAGOME05W]

If I may give my opinion, a sage is a person who has ascended physical form, being that as it may is it not possible for all three to be the same person, after the events of SS took place Gaepora, already a holy man (charged with the task of watching the skyward sword) could have become the sage. and Kaepora Gaebora or Rauru is the translation from the tongue of the sky to hylian.

 

[Slim Shady]

i don't know about that but i actually think there is a relationship between them

 

[TrueChaos]

when i first saw Gaebora i thought 'OH MY GOD IT'S RAURU' not 'OH MY GOD IT'S THE OWL'