ZD Forum Change Concerns

[Dan]

Wow this thread is the most active at 5am my time...

I seem to be having an easier time finding addons for IP Board than I ever have with Xenforo. If anyone remembers we also lost lots of additional things when we switched a year ago. This does mean we might have things like blogs back, etc. And I still want to have some kind of point market system.

and yes one of the first things ever said was that all posts will be moved.


Honestly there is a good argument for the forums being the least used part of the network. But they have the most dedicated memberbase that continues to come back each and every day. As well as typically being a farming ground for future staff who want to do things like post on the main site, work on graphics etc.


Temporarily yes, but all Forum links on both sites should direct to the same forum.

ZI already has a blogs features, so it's just a case of not removing it?

 

[Jamie]

Yep that's what I remember too. The swear censor wasn't even discussed until someone brought it up. Wasn't the reason for the change because of the errors we got all the time?

Yeah, vB4 had a ton of issues.

 

[Emma]

Huh? That's not how I remember it, and Kitsu and I were the ones who decided on it and installed it.

As far as I remember, Mases told us he wanted to switch to VB5, and asked of our opinions on it. Initially it seemed like a good idea but quickly we saw the issues with it and said something else would be better. I forget how Xenforo came into the discussion, I assume Mases brought it up, but we decided on it because we thought it was easy to use and the ACP looked nice amongst other things. Ultimately it was because Mases wanted to switch to vB5 and we thought Xenforo would be a better switch. vB4 is absolute garbage aside from the plugin management, so I think it was a good idea to switch. Swear censors were a nice addition though.

Yep that's what I remember too. The swear censor wasn't even discussed until someone brought it up. Wasn't the reason for the change because of the errors we got all the time?

Um... no, sorry you two, that's NOT what happened. The swear filter was the original motivation. What you're remembering is the initial thrill everyone had over just how much better Xenforo seemed to be overall and why it was considered worth it. But absolutely the filter was the spark that motivated it. The original suggestion was here, well before the switch, and then it mostly continued in the shoutbox since the thread was quickly locked, where before too long the idea of Xenforo was suggested explicitly because the optional filter it had. People always talking about how they wanted the filter optional. Mases of course didn't concern himself with that, but was on board because Xenforo was supposed to have far less server strain than VB. Which clearly was the case because as soon as we did it, the wiki loaded at least ten times faster than it had previously. Where before it usually took more than ten seconds for a wiki page to load 100% on my end. In particular that made patrolling difficult because we rely on several scripts that streamline the process that took too long to load at the pace needed to go back then.

But in the euphoria over dumping VB, it apparently slipped your minds to actually implement the optional censor until someone made a point to call on it that it wasn't there over two months after the switch. It's not uncommon to misremember motives, especially when the actual motive was rather trivial or even a little embarrassing.

 

[Jamie]

Um... no, sorry you two, that's NOT what happened. The swear filter was the original motivation. What you're remembering is the initial thrill everyone had over just how much better Xenforo seemed to be overall and why it was considered worth it. But absolutely the filter was the spark that motivated it. The original suggestion was here, well before the switch, and then it mostly continued in the shoutbox since the thread was quickly locked, where before too long the idea of Xenforo was suggested explicitly because the optional filter it had. People always talking about how they wanted the filter optional. Mases of course didn't concern himself with that, but was on board because Xenforo was supposed to have far less server strain than VB. Which clearly was the case because as soon as we did it, the wiki loaded at least ten times faster than it had previously. Where before it usually took more than ten seconds for a wiki page to load 100% on my end. In particular that made patrolling difficult because we rely on several scripts that streamline the process that took too long to load at the pace needed to go back then.

But in the euphoria over dumping VB, it apparently slipped your minds to actually implement the optional censor until someone made a point to call on it that it wasn't there over two months after the switch. It's not uncommon to misremember motives, especially when the actual motive was rather trivial or even a little embarrassing.

I can absolutely positively guarantee you that if it was the original motivation, that had nothing to do with /my/ motivation and it was not presented to me as such by Mases. The entirety of the switch from my /personal/ experiences was Mases saying he'd like to switch software and if vB5 would be a good upgrade. We looked into it and said no, and decided on Xenforo which we all liked, and so he bought it. That is the entirety of what I know and how it came to be from the staffs point of view. If mases suggesting to switch was due to the swear filter, then so be it, but I can absolutely guarantee you I had no knowledge of that until this very second.

 

[Jamie]

I also feel you are being a little patronizing at the end there. I didn't misremember anything. I'm telling you exactly how it was presented to me. Mases originally suggested vB5, I can absolutely guarantee this. As for why he was making the switch, the swear filter was never mentioned nor was I ever aware of it being a motivation.

 

[Azure Sage]

I also feel you are being a little patronizing at the end there. I didn't misremember anything. I'm telling you exactly how it was presented to me. Mases originally suggested vB5, I can absolutely guarantee this. As for why he was making the switch, the swear filter was never mentioned nor was I ever aware of it being a motivation.

If it makes you feel any better, I also remember it being switched because of database errors and it being a better forum software. I remember the censor thing only being a secondary concern, as in a "oh hey we can also do that with xenforo" kind of thing.

 

[Lozjam]

@Matt
I'm sorry dude, and I totally respect your opinion(I often times agree with you) on these matters.
However, I feel like you are creating the unnecessary drama for the sake of nitpicks. This is something that members of ZD have been trying to stop after all of these years. You are being a little too aggressive here.

 

[Vanessa28]

No Matt seriously that was not the reason. I remember when Mases told us about it. The reason was because of the errors. The swear filter was not even discussed. One of the admins at the time (Jamie or Kitsu) brought it up after wthey already worked on xenforo and said there was also a swear filter plugin or something. And if we should use it. But the main reason was having these errors. I don't know what has been discussed about it elsewhere or in private but the swear filter was never mentioned until (like I said) Jamie or Kitsu brought it up.

 

[Djinn]

Not that it is at all relevant to this thread, but there are few left who remember that the subject of switching to Xenforo was brought up in a skype chat designated for discussion on moving to a new software that is less taxing on the server more than a year before the move actually happened. Xenforo was named and discussed heavily at that time.

Swear censor talk happened nearly 14 months later.

 

[Emma]

@Matt
I'm sorry dude, and I totally respect your opinion(I often times agree with you) on these matters.
However, I feel like you are creating the unnecessary drama for the sake of nitpicks. This is something that members of ZD have been trying to stop after all of these years. You are being a little too aggressive here.

May not have realized it but you just touched on a core problem. Hypocrisy. Throughout this entire thread there have been several instances of people feeling that they had the right to correct my version of history without being subject to the same themselves. By all means if someone doesn't agree with way things happened, they ought to have the ability to say so. However to jump down someone's throat the second that process is sent in the other direction is incredibly hypocritical.

All the worst moments in our history come from people believing the same rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to them. That one someone does something unpleasant to them it's a serious offense, but when they do to the other person instead of the other way around, it's not only no big deal, but necessary. It is more than a little unfair to attack me for doing the exact same thing so many of you are doing right now.

Far, FAR too often, people are just jumping to the conclusion that someone is being hostile and, and maliciously lying, if the way they remember things is not the same. We're forgetting that we're all human beings with our own minds and our own priorities. And what was deeply important to someone else could have just been a regular day and an entirely forgettable event for another.

And as for what the rest of you are saying, you're forgetting one key detail. Then just as much now the people outside the staff were deliberately kept out of the loop. Not told what is going on and sometimes even fed outright disinformation. I can assure you with absolute certainty that in the shoutbox, we were very, very explicitly told by the admins at the time that the censor was the reason. Instead of assuming I'm being hostile and evil and mwhaha, you didn't stop to consider the more mundane and obvious answer. That the original statement was sarcasm, thus easily forgotten as jokes were all over the place then, and because the rest of us were deliberately left out the loop, there was nothing else to go on.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

If three people who were all staff during the switch all say one thing but one other person says something else, I know who I'm gonna believe in this case. And I think I speak for everybody too.

Matt, stop trying to make a problem out of every little thing, we're all ****ing tired of it. I thought that was behind us.

 

[Emma]

If three people who were all staff during the switch all say one thing but one other person says something else, I know who I'm gonna believe in this case. And I think I speak for everybody too.

Matt, stop trying to make a problem out of every little thing, we're all ****ing tired of it. I thought that was behind us.

And it looks like this nonsense never going to stop. The hypocrisy is never going to stop. It's impossible to be productive these days. You can't disagree with someone without being declared an enemy of the state. And you certainly can't expect to be held to same standards.

You know what we're actually all tired of? People jumping to the conclusion that passionate people who care about this place are the problem that need to "shut up". People are going to disagree. Being so incredibly disrespectful and expecting immunity to criticism while the other side freely does so themselves. This attitude of jumping to the conclusions of people being the enemy for simply disagreeing is what we need to put behind us. We do NOT have to put behind the ability to disagree.

I never had hostility in mind. I never tried to attack. I would thank everyone very much if they will stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Jamie]

I never mentioned the censor as being a reason. If anyone else did, then alright, fair enough, but not me. I'm sorry you felt out of the loop at the time, I recall creating a thread about it, but to be honest all of the details are quite fuzzy. All I know for sure is the censor was never something that entered my mind, except maybe as a passing thing.

 

[Vanessa28]

Again...we were NOT told the main reason would have been the swear filter. To us the reason was told to be the continuous errors. If something else has been mentioned it must have been done elsewhere because as I said multiple times before we did NOT get this as the main reason. That's all I know.

 

[Emma]

I never mentioned the censor as being a reason. If anyone else did, then alright, fair enough, but not me. I'm sorry you felt out of the loop at the time, I recall creating a thread about it, but to be honest all of the details are quite fuzzy. All I know for sure is the censor was never something that entered my mind, except maybe as a passing thing.

We were not informed until the switch was imminent Just like now, how people are being left out of the loop on this forum change. We had to be told second hand that it was delayed.

And I don't feel like we can do anything productive no matter what we do with the forum if we don't air out our dirty laundry. Right now people are explempifying our biggest problem ZD has had for most of its life. Absolute intolerance of differing opinions. Those who disagree with something someone above them says, gets that person labeled a troublemaker that must be silienced with very predictable expediency. Look how quickly it happened here. The second someone did not agree with something I said, I was immediately accused of stirring up trouble for the sake of it. We cannot expect to move forward with this attitude. We need to accept that we're not going to agree on everything and we need to be willing to hear everyone out in what they have to say no matter if it doesn't conform to what we personally want. ZI has told us they have tried very hard to improve their atmosphere. It would not be right of us to move the forums over there or have any of them move over here without it being fully realized that this problem is deeply ingrained in us.

For my part Jamie, I do apologize for the same kind of assumptions of this nature I made about you back in the day. But perhaps because of them you can understand my perspective now. How I feel with being labeled so maliciously and severely for something when that was never what I was trying to do. I know I'm not the only one that has been subject to this. I'm just more.... outspoken about how I feel so people remember me.

Again...we were NOT told the main reason would have been the swear filter. To us the reason was told to be the continuous errors. If something else has been mentioned it must have been done elsewhere because as I said multiple times before we did NOT get this as the main reason. That's all I know.

It's abundantly clear now that it never was a reason and was just a joke someone said. Probably Kitsu. Since everyone else was not informed about anything that was going on in the staff chats,there was nothing else to go on.