Your Opinion on Emulation

[MrLuigi]

I'm just saying you are on the road to robbing liquor stores.

 

[mooper11]

I think Nintendo should just make one system and keep with that. So we never have to emulate anymore just so we can play more games that we can't get. I also think they should release some of their Japan only titles in America too *cough* MOTHER 1! *cough*, I don't wanna emulate the beta just so I can play the game

 

[Kazumi]

Emulation is a touchy subject to many people, however I think it is silly to spend valuable time and resources on something as petty as downloading a ten year old game to play. Emulation is great for a number of reasons. It allows people to play classic games that have long since been lost, and play games to get introduced to that series, if it is still running. It is also great because of things like ROM Hacking, Fan Translations and NetPlay. It allows fans to enjoy new content in their favourite old games and offers a great way for people to alter games to their liking or completely convert the game and just use the base engine. It also may allow them to experience games that they may have never been able to play without it because they were only released in a foreign language and are difficult to obtain. There are many possibilities with emulation. I understand why some people don't like emulation. In my opinion it is because they are simply misinformed by companies and the media, who are greedy for every penny they can get, regardless of the fact that it may just be repackaging a 15 year old game and selling it for 10 dollars.

On that note I think that it is a crime in itself to simply resell such old code. Sure it is owned by the company, but that is just a cheap move to pull. It's incredibly greedy if you ask me. In other cases, the game you want to play may not be available on any of the current consoles through methods of digital downloads or retail releases. Lots of games are difficult to resell on things like the Virtual Console because of issues with rights. Games like Goldeneye, Earthbound, Perfect Dark, Banjo-Kazooie, and many more will likely never be purchasable on the Virtual Console because of issues with rights. Again, because of selfish companies Nintendo cannot release these games on their service. Another reason that games are not available may be because they are more niche and didn't sell very well back in the day, and are not expected to sell very well if they are released on the service. If Nintendo doesn't think that the games will make enough money, then they will not go through the expensive and once again rather selfish process of getting the game re-rated by the ESRB. Emulation helps in all of these cases because it allows gamers to replay or enjoy classic games no matter what.

So, in my opinion, Emulation is perfectly fine and companies are just really greedy.

 

[Michael Heide]

For me as a European, it was the only possibility to play those games because I-VI were never released here on their original consoles (VII was the first one to ship to Europe) so that's the only way to play those games (other games as well, like Chrono Trigger) and I'm not a big fan of the DS/PSP remakes (yay for original experience).

1&2
4&5
6
All of these games run on the original Playstation (which you can get 2nd Hand for as cheap as 16€) and the PS2 (which is still available in German stores).
FF3 only came out for DS, that's true. But it came out. There is no need to play a pirated copy. And "yay for original experience" doesn't count, because the original games weren't released for PC emulators.

I am a firm believer in creators' rights. If I like a book, movie, video game, comic book or song, then I should pay for it through the usual channels. That's the only way to make sure that the creators involved make any money and can continue making solid entertainment.

I'll make an exception for games that really aren't available anymore, not even in used condition, like Ancient Stone Tablets. However, the Final Fantasy games do not belong to that group.

Are [Virtual Console games] for their original consoles? No. They're edited version to work with the Wii, basically, NOT their original versions, therefore the original version shouldn't have anything to do with the VC version.

But you don't play the pirated ROMs on the original consoles. You play them on the PC or on an illegally modified console. So you might as well get the VC versions.

Anyway, even if it's illegal anyway, I don't care. I love old games, games that I lost and games that broke, I don't have the time nor money to get them and their consoles, so I emulate them.

That's a slippery slope. By that logic, you might as well steal a physical copy of the game from the store. Sure it's illegal, but why would you care? You love games and don't have the money, so you steal them. What's the difference? The difference is that it's easier to get caught if you shoplift. Downloading ROMs is much more convenient, and much less risky. But it's still wrong.

Don't misunderstand me. My reason for emulating is legitimate.

But actually doing it is not.

Use this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM8PT1eAvY

Applies the same to video games.

Not available in my country.

I understand why some people don't like emulation. In my opinion it is because they are simply misinformed by companies and the media, who are greedy for every penny they can get, regardless of the fact that it may just be repackaging a 15 year old game and selling it for 10 dollars.

Of course they are greedy. But they are also right. Those games are their intellectual property, and they can demand any price they want. Yes, I think that 60€ for a new Wii game is a bit much, but that does not give me the right to steal it, no matter if it's online or in an actual store.

I mean, put yourself into their position for once. Imagine you are a software developer who had a great idea for a game. You live on Ramen noodles for a couple of months and spend all of your time creating that game. When it's done, it's an absolute masterpiece. You sell it to a corporation (let's call it Nintendo), and they pay you an amount of money and royalties for every copy sold. The game sells a few hundred thousand copies, and your hard work pays off. Piracy however lowers the amount of copies sold, sometimes quite drastically. Nintendo sells fewer copies of the game, and you get less royalties. ROMs take food off your table. Which means that a game like Godhand 2 never gets made. And this is not a made-up sob story.

So stick your fingers in your ears and sing "I don't care" all you want, emulation is still stealing, and stealing is wrong.

 

[MrMosley]

Emulation is a beautiful thing. I mean let's face it, for years we didn't have all this "virtual console", "xbox live arcade" stuff that we have now. And even then, those things come with downsides. Xbox Arcade takes many of the old games that enjoyed and shaves them down. For example, Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, 3, and Sonic and Knuckles all have the opening title screen, but it plays to the side where a new menu has been created instead of being able to access the menus that the original game had. So stuff like, the cool save files for Sonic 3, are no longer accessible. You can still save, its just from a different menu put in there by the people who re-released the title. This seems minuscule, which it arguably is, but I is arguing here when I say that I enjoy my old menus. I like being able to put in level select codes and debug codes to run about the game doing whatever.

The Wii's Virtual Console is better in that it directly emulates whatever game you purchase with no added crap from the company. Just a pure, classic emulation, which is all well and good, but it still doesn't beat the list of goodies emulators can offer. For instance, emulators for older systems, such as the Sega Genesis or Super Nintendo, come with built-in Game Genies, which is a really nice addition for those looking to get some extra mileage out of an old game. Some of the best NES emulators also have Famicom Disk System (the Japanese NES) rom support, which means you can play any Japanese title that you will probably never get to touch otherwise. Not to mention the fact that many of the great titles from the past haven't even reached the VC yet, and probably won't due to copyright issues or whatever other cases may be. I will also say that even though you get what you want out of the VC titles in that they are pure emulations, that is all you get. Xbox Arcade and the Playstation Store has the VC beat when it comes to added incentives, namely Achievements. And I'm well aware that there are people who will say "Oh well I don't care about those". But it is an undeniable fact that Achievements and Trophies give players a reason to replay the game other than living out nostalgic memories. The VC's lack of incentives for title's we've already put hundreds of hours in makes it more likely for someone to just figure out how to use emulators and take that route.

When people say its stealing or illegal, I think that's really taking a harmless action and just giving it a bad name. A hungry man stealing food is a far worse scenario in terms of legality. I can completely understand staying away from moding an Xbox 360 or Wii and burning games for those systems because they are new; The companies are putting a lot of time, effort, and dolla bills into making those games that should be purchased. But emulators and roms are generally used for old systems; Games that have been released, re-released in some form or fashion, and have made more than their fair share of profits over the years.

Having said that, I don't see downloading old games as a crime at all. I see it as wanting an easy way to re-live the best moments in gaming for the people who have probably already shelled out multiple thousands into bygone eras anyway. People who use emulators should not be looked at as thieves or criminals, but true gamers who are merely paying homage to the better days.

 

[Michael Heide]

When people say its stealing or illegal, I think that's really taking a harmless action and just giving it a bad name. A hungry man stealing food is a far worse scenario in terms of legality.

The hungry man is stealing to survive. The ROM user is stealing for his personal entertainment. Am I the only one seeing a massive discrepancy there?

 

[MrMosley]

The hungry man is stealing to survive. The ROM user is stealing for his personal entertainment. Am I the only one seeing a massive discrepancy there?

Well that's pretty obvious. However, terms of acceptability or reasoning is not what I was referring to. I was pointing out that playing a game that is readily available, free, and has made enough coin already is a far less serious crime than stealing food, regardless of if the person is starving or not. People don't get to walk in grocery stores and pack out a cart full without paying just because they are starving. However, people can easily get online and download an old game instead of paying like 5 bucks for it on their system and get away with it because no one really cares. You can say that it is illegal, but you can't say that its illegal and put it in the same category as robbing a bank or trafficking drugs. Downloading emulators and roms is not something that is often punished; You don't hear about people going to jail or paying huge fines for enjoying some free Super Mario World on their computers. Put simply, the level of legality is what is being taken into consideration here, and that level is so small in using emulators that it really shouldn't even be taken into account.

 

[Michael Heide]

You can say that it is illegal, but you can't say that its illegal and put it in the same category as robbing a bank or trafficking drugs. Downloading emulators and roms is not something that is often punished; You don't hear about people going to jail or paying huge fines for enjoying some free Super Mario World on their computers.

That it isn't persecuted as heavily as drug trafficking doesn't make it any less illegal. We're not talking about a gray area here. When it comes to legal/illegal, it's binary. Black or white. Nothing in-between. Either something is illegal or it isn't. Enjoying a pirated Super Mario World is.

 

[Alex Arbiter]

Emulation should only be done for games that have been patched in to for lanugage since of no release in that reigon, or a rom hack.
Personally I have missed on alot of games like Blood of Bahamut since it never released in english, and quite noteable most of the tales games.

 

[MrLuigi]

http://ap.nintendo.com/report/

Yeah they SO don't care. If they don't care as much you say they do, do it in front of them.

 

[AlaskaAce1996]

People don't seem to understand that the law is the law, regardless of what your opinion on it is. ROMs are illegal and giving all these excuses does not justify violation of law.

 

[KratosFan]

I know this might not make sense the way I say it but, It is NOT illegal to have,use, or hack roms. It IS, however, illegal to Redistibute the roms, because that would be resale, and giving out copyrighted work for free. I personally, like Roms for playing hacks of games, such as Pokemon Brown version, and other things like that. I do prefer to use the actual games though because you don't get the same feeling you do from playing a rom that you get when you play the actual game, you know?

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

At first, I was pretty much dead-set against emulation. However, after reading Mr. Mosley and Kazumi's arguements, my opinion has changed. I still prefer to play the games on their original console (or at least close enough: IE playing a GBC game on my GBASP or a SNES game on that fancy Twin Duo system that plays both SNES and NES games), but I don't think it's that bad any more at the very least.

Sure, it's illegal, but it's not like you're killing a company's business if you download, say, a game from ten years ago that isn't on the market any more to play. And emulation also makes way for Fan Translations that allow you to play games that got no export in your native language (like, say, Mother 3 or the BS Zelda games). It also allows for fun and/or painful ROM Hacks (like Kaizo Mario World). Plus, it also allows savestates which, while cheap at times, are more convenient than traditional saving.

All in all, my new stance on emulation is that it's illegal, but it's tolerable to download old games from many years ago (it also helps that the companies that made the games probably aren't making much if any money off of them any more)/were never exported to your country, however I still prefer to have the traditional copies.

 

[MrMosley]

That it isn't persecuted as heavily as drug trafficking doesn't make it any less illegal.

It could be considered less-illegal being that the punishment is less severe, or that the action is not as persecuted. In Kentucky, its technically illegal to carry an ice cream in your back pocket. Do you think there are people here going to jail for such things? No. So what if its illegal as long as no one cares is basically what I am saying. If you want to be a type that says, "OH I'm just too good to do anything illegal. Don't wanna get in trouble and do something "bad" because these other people say its bad so I'm just gonna listen to them", then that's fine.

We're not talking about a gray area here. When it comes to legal/illegal, it's binary. Black or white. Nothing in-between. Either something is illegal or it isn't. Enjoying a pirated Super Mario World is.

And so is stealing food from a store, regardless of if you are starving to death or not. Making it "okay" by saying "Oh, well he's starving to death so its cool, let him steal", is just the same as saying "Well ya know these games are pretty old... They've made their money, doesn't really matter if we have a way to get em for free". Same deal.

 

[Random Person]

Emulating is... iffy.

I am not against emulating myself. I used to emulate all the time until I found out it was illegal for all games that I didn't own, so now I only emulate games I own. Still, that doesn't mean I'm against emulating. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. If a Person works hard on something and wants the money they deserve from that product, even if it's years longer than people believe the Person deserves, I believe that they should get what they worked for. Otherwise, morally, it's stealing. However, if the Person who made the product no longer cares, then who am I to say that sharing their product is wrong? Whether it's against the law or not, for me, it comes down to a moral standard. Am I wronging someone by my actions? If the answer is yes, even if there are benefits to breaking that law, I won't "do evil so that good may come."