Your favourite Zelda timeline

[Retro Ganon]

Why is this? You're not a "Where'd the tracks go" type, are you?

That's actually a good way of looking at it. I haven't thought about it quite like that before, but it makes sense.

Thanks. In another time and place I did a number of threads and articles concerning this matter because it just never made sense for the FS=MS. Seemed to defeat the purpose of 'four swords' concept even from a game-play standard.

Just a question on this before I go further, do you stick with the whole AT ending at ST thing? Or have an alternate idea?

In this thread I am going to try and be as stoic as possible when looking at the data that may or may not support your timeline. I am not, however, going to argue in favor of my own personal timeline or HH's timeline - even if I do have my own theories which could support Nintendo's logic. Debates of old have shown to be ineffective regarding that type of approach. So no need to worry about that my friend.

Agreed. Dark Mirror more likely leads into the ALttP Dark World, and definitely not the Twili realm.

Hmmm. Before we can conclude just that, I'd propose analyzing what's actually going on in Hyrule because I have a theory that its not only the Dark World (Ganon's makai) that could be at work here, but in addition the Twilight Realm as well. Basically, a Light World, Dark World, Twilight Realm, crossover all at the same time.

Well, here's the thing. We never saw much of what the SR was like in OoT days, except that it had the Temple of Light, which was in the same place as the Temple of Time. Therefore, it's possible that it was mirrored back then too. It could be the perfect version of Hyrule.
Also, Hyrule is still flooded in ST and beyond. However, they found a new landmass to live on. Ganon may have done the very same.

This mechanism of the Light Worlds geography having an equal affect on the Dark World cannot be disputed since it is an in-game fact. If a portion of the Light World is flooded, so too is that region for the Dark World. Now, if the two worlds are still existing in the same relation to one another from a 'global' perspective (after Hyrule's destruction), then yes - I would agree that the region of the SR/DW you see in your timeline would be reflecting that of New Hyrule's terrain.

This goes on with the assumption that the SR has to be a separate event to make your timeline work, but I never saw reason for it when I had an AT majority placement.

You forget what Link's wish was. He wished that the world was back to the way it was prior to ALttP (with the obvious exception of Ganon's death). The DW was still around back then. That's how I explain the DW being refered to in OoX.

This, among other inconsistencies, is a interesting notion. When I supported an AT placement, FSA served as a way to explain this 'Dark Realm' business because I believed that Ganon had conquered the Twilight Realm (thus adding it to his makai - "Dark Realm"). This accounted for Veran and Onox being agents from the DR directly. However, I don't really need to rely on this theory to prove my point thanks to ALBW. Veran, Onox, and Twinrova, most likely survived the purging of the DW at the end of ALttP.

Despite ALttP Links efforts in deating Ganon not once but twice, Ganon still manages to reclaim a piece of the Triforce between the end of OoX and ALBW. Its safe to assume that the ending of OoX, where the Triforces float off from the castle, can be taken in a literal or metaphorical sense. Whatever transpires causes Ganon to try and reclaim the Triforce and inadvertently affects the SR again.

And the physical form argument is what I use for why it survived OoT. Since I personally view Ganondorf as the mortal vessel of Ganon (Demise's raw anger and hatred, which was given the name Ganon as a reference to the vessel it was best known with), when Ganondorf died, Ganon lived on, in a spiritual form. Notice that, in my timeline, Ganon appears again, but not Ganondorf. In WW, he was sealed within the MS in Hyrule, but Vaati, having a lot of power after taking part of the Light Force, was able to free him, possibly destroying the sword in the process (he doesn't quite have hands). At the end of FSA, Ganon was sealed in the FS. If the FS and the MS are indeed of the same make, then it would make sense that they would seal their beings to the same place.

This is supported in part thanks to SS. When Demise is defeated, Fi exclaims that his residual consciousness is what gets stored away and broken down. This much can be accounted for in Ganondorf's case, but not the spirit of Demise that possesses him. This is a good point, and I won't dispute it - as it is universal to all incarnations of Ganon on either timeline branches.

Of course. But they were obviously far from the power they has in FSA.

Why?

There is a great deal of difference between messenger (a glorified mailman) and knight (usually a member of the nobility). In FSA, it's obvious that the knights were at full power directly before

Alright, I might of embellished this a little to prove a point, but Link's father or mother could have been related to the bloodline. The fact remains that TWW shows us that their unit existed around the OoT era at least.

I don't think there's a need. I've read the HH timeline through and through.
Viewing the SW as FSA, I'd say that, as legends change between retellings, they changed Ganon getting the trident to getting the Triforce, just on accident. Legends aren't perfect, and, with the little given to us about the SW during ALTTP's BS, it's obvious that a lot of things are changed or unknown. Example, the seven wise men (the direct translation from Japan). In FSA, they're all female, and in OoT, there's only two that are guys. Either way they changed something there. So why not elsewhere?

The matter of the state of the Triforce has to be explained with factual basis for FSA to truly take over as the SW. But to me, your timeline can still work just as well with OoT = SW (If legends of the FS defeating an evil mage can survive into New Hyrule, so can tales about a fierce war involving an infamous demon king).

The 'True Force" argument still stands to reasonable grounds as to why, whenever Ganon touches the Triforce, he has to forcefully extract it from others to make it his right to govern all. Obviously something happened between OoX and ALBW to make this the case - as it were in OoT events.

 

[DekuNut]

I swear that I've replied to this post, like, twice already...

Thanks. In another time and place I did a number of threads and articles concerning this matter because it just never made sense for the FS=MS. Seemed to defeat the purpose of 'four swords' concept even from a game-play standard.

May as well just answer it with a question:
If FS=MS, then why can we only have one Link in OoT? Because having four there would be amazing.

In this thread I am going to try and be as stoic as possible when looking at the data that may or may not support your timeline. I am not, however, going to argue in favor of my own personal timeline or HH's timeline - even if I do have my own theories which could support Nintendo's logic. Debates of old have shown to be ineffective regarding that type of approach. So no need to worry about that my friend.

Makes sense. I was originally going to ask so I could better tailor some of my arguments, but I forgot what I was going to talk about there, so oh wel

Hmmm. Before we can conclude just that, I'd propose analyzing what's actually going on in Hyrule because I have a theory that its not only the Dark World (Ganon's makai) that could be at work here, but in addition the Twilight Realm as well. Basically, a Light World, Dark World, Twilight Realm, crossover all at the same time.

Sounds interesting. Mind explaining?

This goes on with the assumption that the SR has to be a separate event to make your timeline work, but I never saw reason for it when I had an AT majority placement.

Why?

This, among other inconsistencies, is a interesting notion. When I supported an AT placement, FSA served as a way to explain this 'Dark Realm' business because I believed that Ganon had conquered the Twilight Realm (thus adding it to his makai - "Dark Realm").

Which in itself would be impossible because of timeline differences.

This accounted for Veran and Onox being agents from the DR directly. However, I don't really need to rely on this theory to prove my point thanks to ALBW. Veran, Onox, and Twinrova, most likely survived the purging of the DW at the end of ALttP.

I haven't played much of ALBW, so mind explaining how that helps your argument? Are you meaning they come from Lorule?

Despite ALttP Links efforts in deating Ganon not once but twice, Ganon still manages to reclaim a piece of the Triforce between the end of OoX and ALBW.

Are you referencing when he got the ToP in LoZ? Or another time?

Its safe to assume that the ending of OoX, where the Triforces float off from the castle, can be taken in a literal or metaphorical sense. Whatever transpires causes Ganon to try and reclaim the Triforce and inadvertently affects the SR again.

I'm pretty sure that what transpires isn't what causes him to try again... I think it's his stubborn pig-headedness

Why?

Because they weren't visible. In FSA, we see them. We know of their power. The people talk about them. But, in OoT, they don't. The closest we saw or heard of were the castle guards, which are widely regarded in the community as stupid and useless.

Alright, I might of embellished this a little to prove a point, but Link's father or mother could have been related to the bloodline. The fact remains that TWW shows us that their unit existed around the OoT era at least.

I actually go by the headcanon that Link's father was a soldier. Of course, this comes from the OoT manga, so it's not canon, but I agree with this.

The matter of the state of the Triforce has to be explained with factual basis for FSA to truly take over as the SW. But to me, your timeline can still work just as well with OoT = SW (If legends of the FS defeating an evil mage can survive into New Hyrule, so can tales about a fierce war involving an infamous demon king).

But that would mean that the SW was the backstory to WW, not to ALttP then.

The 'True Force" argument still stands to reasonable grounds as to why, whenever Ganon touches the Triforce, he has to forcefully extract it from others to make it his right to govern all. Obviously something happened between OoX and ALBW to make this the case - as it were in OoT events.

I'll wait until you answer the above question about ALBW to reply to this.