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Wind Waker: Why So Many Haters?

Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Oh, silly me, I should have thought to IMAGINE all the things that didn't happen on the Great Sea even though they should have. Slap my forehead, because I need a V8!



I don't think your thought process has correlated with my post, because my point went soaring over your head. Out on the open sea, you never know what's going to happen. Sailing can be very dangerous, so the fact that there is little to no danger while sailing the Great Sea goes against the atmosphere that SHOULD be provided. I'm not saying there needs to be something happening every single second, because there are also times where sailing the seas is a calm and relaxing experience, but that doesn't absolve the fact that sailing the Great Sea is a gross misinterpretation of what sailing is really like.

People always say, "Oh, the Great Sea is awesome because it feels like you're really sailing!" when it doesn't. Maybe for the first 5 minutes, but after that, it becomes apparent that there's no variety in the travel. It's all one monotonous drag that poses no stimulation whatsoever because it's the exact same ****ing thing every single time.

Take a look at Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag. One of its main features is sailing the Caribbean Sea. Its sailing is basically everything The Wind Waker's wasn't. I'm aware the game isn't out yet, but I've seen enough footage of the sailing to know it's very dynamic, ranging from clear skies and relaxing travel, to intense storms with naval combat. This creates a thick atmosphere that's frequently changing, allowing the sailing to feel real. Can you honestly argue that The Wind Waker offers anything remotely close to that?

A day and night cycle is a good thing to have, don't get me wrong, but using that and that alone to say the Great Sea has a lot of atmosphere is just not accurate at all.

Just because it doesn't have the atmosphere you wanted doesn't mean there isn't atmosphere. It's a completely subjective topic, so there's no point in arguing any further.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
ZD Champion
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
ok,you see this
[video=youtube;2hXdVgmBzHA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hXdVgmBzHA&list=PLmQ7RCZ8clExLknMZjjZChrT52-DAjF9x[/video]

and then you get this
[video=youtube;aQ7riCXrDxY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ7riCXrDxY[/video]
a recipe for outrage
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
You make it seem like any Zelda game even remotely resembles real life. There's intense storms on land, too. How come there aren't any hurricanes in OoT? Come on man, you're being silly at this point. TWW was also created in 2002, so don't compare it to ACIV

Yes, because there's absolutely nothing realistic in Zelda at all. Everything is completely off-the-wall and makes absolutely no sense, especially environments that are filled with trees, mountains, rivers, etc. There's also totally a body of water large enough in Hyrule for a hurricane to form, as well as room for storms affecting land travel as much as sea travel. And, man, oh man, let's not forget that there's no possible way the GameCube could have rendered graceful animations to make storms actually impressive and impactful.

Seriously, you're floundering just as much as tketle with this lame attempt at a counterargument.

JJ doesn't understand what subjective means.

Oh, I do, trust me. However, there's a line where saying something is subjective is a cop-out, and in this scenario, we are way past that line. I'm giving actual reasons to back my standpoint up, while our dear friend tketle is basically saying "I'm right because you have no imagination", which, according to his logic, can be classified as subjective. Yeah, try to get that **** straight in your head. Imagination is subjective. ****in' A, right there.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
All I meant by the imagination thing was that some people are able to immerse themselves more easily than others. The amount of atmosphere you feel depends a lot on how easily that is. We're all right, because not one of us experiences the game the same way. Subjectivity. I don't need to write a novel to explain this.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
how the **** does that dude get such a high ranking when he's clearly...everything xyphon just said

High ranking? I think the only high ranks are mods. You mean the yellow text? It means he's an article writer. Not 100% sure how you get it (I imagine you get an article published and you're in), but it doesn't really give him power over anyone else. *shrug*
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
ZD Champion
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
High ranking? I think the only high ranks are mods. You mean the yellow text? It means he's an article writer. Not 100% sure how you get it (I imagine you get an article published and you're in), but it doesn't really give him power over anyone else. *shrug*
i also saw that award,and then i read what it was
so uh yeah,i see your point....he's still a *gets disconnected*
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Hoo, boy, this is gonna be quite an interesting ride.

I didn't say this, I said Zelda games [as a whole] don't resemble real life. Anyway, there could certainly be storms in OoT, or other various things that affect the overworld. The issue here is you are exempting every single other Zelda game from this almighty judgment of yours.

No, not really, just pointing out things that could have made the atmosphere on the Great Sea much better than it was. The real difference, here, is that land and sea travel require different tactics, and storms are one of the things that can really aid the latter, especially when it comes to sailing.

And this part "let's not forget that there's no possible way the GameCube could have rendered graceful animations to make storms actually impressive and impactful." when did I even IMPLY that it couldn't do this? Never? Okay, so why are you using sarcasm regarding this. I wasn't even talking about the GC capabilities. U w0t m8?

You said it was made in 2002 and that I shouldn't compare it to ACIV because of it. That heavily implies "the hardware wasn't powerful enough back then to do ___."

This condescending bull **** really bothers me. Wanna know why? Because I think you believe you are the best debater on the entire forum and you never say anything that is a "poor counter argument". I really believe you think this. So every ****ing time you belittle someone on this forum it makes me feel sick to my stomach that someone is out there as disgustingly egotistic as you just belittling people left right and center because you are such a great debater. You must be well aware that half of the ****ing forum talks about how you belittle people, have no sense of the line between subjective and objective, you ignore people whenever they prove you wrong (whether it be literal SB ignoring or simply skipping over their posts as you have several times to me lately), how you have an ego out to wazoo, and can't EVER admit you're wrong. You always tell me you admit when you're wrong but I've yet to see you do it even when I prove you to be factually wrong (i.e. when you used the term "straw man" incorrectly). Seriously, you have the ****ing audacity to say that YOU KNOW what the best Zelda game is and what the worst is? Your signature embodies everything wrong with your childish crap, I can't believe you're 20 years old.

Well, I'm glad you paid so much attention to me in the SB, because there are multiple times where I've admitted I was wrong on something. I've done so in posts, as well. I even just recently requested a thread of mine be deleted so I could remodel it, as the information surrounding it provided a shaky foundation, which I only realized after it was pointed out to me. I also don't "skip over" posts unless they're absolutely irrelevant to what I'm saying. If I miss a key post by someone, it's because I legitimately missed it. Threads can move really fast, and posts can easily be missed because of that. It's happened multiple times since I've been here, and it will continue to happen in the future. It's an inevitability.

I'm also legitimately surprised you're bringing up my signature when there's a pretty large number of other members that have similar ones. It's a pretty popular thing to do here at the DGN. It also pretty much automatically implies an opinion, which should go without saying.

You are going to sit here and belittle me? You are going to regularly insult my debating skills along with those of many others despite serious flaws in your own? Can anyone's behaviour really be this juvenile? Do you know why people made stuff like "JJ *you know what* over"? Do you know why people rip on you behind you back? Because you are absolutely beyond rude to people who are having discussions with you.

I'm aware I can come across an ***hole due to having poor social skills (and that it often hits high points at certain intervals), but I don't act condescending to someone unless they've greeted me with the same attitude.

That little "novel" was also written because Axle stood up for me multiple times, so there was a brief period of time (unless it's still going on) where people did a JJ x Axle thing out of spite. I would appreciate you knowing the whole story behind something before bringing it up as an example.

Oh, I can't say I like something because I like it? That's not enough for you? I'm objectively wrong? I say TWW is the best Zelda game and I'm objectively wrong? I say the atmosphere in TWW is good and I'm objectively wrong?
Who the hell do you think you are? God? Do you think you are God? Cause you sure as **** act like you are thinking you know who is objectively wrong.

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure I don't just go around randomly saying, "This is objectively wrong, that's objectively wrong, YOU'RE ALL OBJECTIVELY WRONG, WAHAHAHA!!!" Since you brought it up specifically, though, I also don't say that it's "objectively wrong" that The Wind Waker is the best Zelda game. I certainly believe it to be false, and I certainly state my reasons as to why, but that's how debates work. People state their opinions and why they have said opinions, which was the entire point behind me addressing the "subjectivity" issue that was brought up in this thread. Again, you can't just right off the bat say, "Oh, it's all subjectivity," as an argument without it being a cop-out. It's little more, if anything, than a reason to not go into detail about why you believe something. And that's what I always do: go into detail about why I believe something. It's something I do frequently here on a forum where one of the main attractions is to do that very thing. Again, I'm aware I can come across as an ***hole while doing so, but it's never my intent unless it's a situation where I just don't give a ****.

Do you know why people don't like to give you reasons for anything? Cause you tell them they are ****ing wrong. It's a goddamn opinion. Hit me up when you figure out what that means.

I only tell people they're wrong if it's a legitimate fact that they're wrong. Otherwise, I offer my take on whatever the current situation is. If you (and others) want to view that as me telling them they're wrong, well, there's not really anything I can do about that other than let you know (ironically enough) that's wrong. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It's me telling you why I believe something I do, which BY DEFAULT makes me believe I'm right about it. That's how people work. If they believe something, they think they're right about it. That doesn't mean that they automatically are and that they can't take others' thoughts and opinions into consideration (which I always do, otherwise I wouldn't be able to provide relevant responses), but that doesn't stop them from thinking they are. Why else would you even debate about something? Why would you debate about something if you don't even believe what you're saying to be true? That would be a class-A example of redundancy.

Can't wait till you ignore this post, too, as you do with every post that calls you out for being the condescending child that you are.

Well, then...
 

Fig

The Altruist
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Location
Mishima Tower
I remember when I first saw the game when it was first revealed, and I was always in shock every time I thought about. What shocked me was that in my eyes that I was able to witness such a beautiful game right from the start. The more I heard about Wind Waker, the more I got interested. I finally pleaded to my mother if I may have the game for Christmas at the time, and she gave me the best gift in the world. As soon as I popped the disc into the GameCube, I was filled with joy. Once I finally beat the game, I was very happy to complete the game at last. Looking back at the game now and even playing it again for the feels, I realized that the game was actually one of the best games that I've ever played. Does the game have flows? Sure, but minor ones. The game was nearly perfect in my eyes. It had a great story line and backstory. The graphics were cute and perfect for such a series. The Legend of Zelda is more of fantasy game so it makes to have "unrealistic graphics" implemented towards the series. The mechanics were top notch maybe could have been tweaked out a little bit more to my liking. Finally the concept of the overall was by far genius.

I'm sure people hated the game when first announced, but looking back, I'm sure most of those people now take back what they said about Wind Waker and still consider it to be one of the greatest games in the series. So maybe there was a lot of hate for Wind Waker, but I'm sure the number of haters are diminishing as we speak.
 

Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
Oh my God, this has blown out of proportions, I thought we're supposed to talk about how much we hate WW(cause we all do, right?:P), not how subjective vs objective and stuff.....
 
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Krazy4Krash

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
'straya
Oh god, the sunrise in this game is marvelous. Talk about majestic... When I hear the Sun's Song on an island, I immediately run to my boat and sail so it can transition to the Ocean music probably. The way it deserves.
 
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DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
To be fair, I think we ARE supposed to argue here...or at least that's the gist I got. Fairly sure I got warnings for posting too many "non-argumentative" posts.
 

Random Person

Just Some Random Person
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Wig-Or-Log
*Comes into conversation extremely late without reading every post because too cool for that*

Well, I can't really say I see the criticism. From what I've seen, WW is one of the most praised games, along with MM. The oldest games are generally thought of as too difficult, ALttP and OoT are thought to be overrated, while TP and SS have a split between people who hate them and love them. I'm not saying people think WW is perfect, but people seem to praise its good more than complain about its bad.
 

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