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The Legend of Zelda Why the Series Should Never Look Back to Legend of Zelda

Curmudgeon

default setting: sarcastic prick
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Gender
grumpy
The 1980s profusely apologize for not having fully-developed game theory, technology, or the foresight to appeal the sensibilities of gamers that hadn't been born yet. This is the way games were. Someone who thinks that the conventions presented in LoZ were new or unique knows nothing of the era.

LoZ and that generation of games were stepping stones on the way to better things. If you're incapable of appreciating (not necessarily enjoy, just understand) a game within the context that it was created, you shouldn't play it.

On the other side of that - Games are just better now. Stop pretending that 1990 was a time of fully-realized genius and modern games are all just soulless husks with pretty graphics.
 
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Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
The 1980s profusely apologize for not having fully-developed game theory, technology, or the foresight to appeal the sensibilities of gamers that hadn't been born yet. This is the way games were. Someone who thinks that the conventions presented in LoZ were new or unique knows nothing of the era.

LoZ and that generation of games were stepping stones on the way to better things. If you're incapable of appreciating (not necessarily enjoy, just understand) a game within the context that it was created, you shouldn't play it.
Exactly as I was saying, besides NES Zelda wasn't devoid of hints anyway, most of the information is in the manual. At least I think so, I haven't seen an actual NES Zelda manual.
 

snakeoiltanker

Wake Up!
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
Ohio
I agree with your position Ven, but I think you are focusing on the wrong things. Like Curm said, you have to be able to play that game as it was intended. Old games ARE hard to go back to as we all have this new idea of what a game experience is! Games are better now! we have technology now!

i think we can still look back on older games a see things that we can still build on, but i think its best we look to our middle age of gaming, you know the 90's when things were awesome. instead of looking all the way, as we have already built on those ideas about as much as we can, so How about instead of looking ALL the way back, we look back to the days of ALttP as they are, and TMC, and for Nayrus sake, Make a Four Swords game, that is easily accessible to play alone and with others. with friend codes out of the way, i dont see why we couldnt have Muti-player Zelda game with some sort of Matchmaking system in place, for easy drop in drop out play! Maybe instead of looking back internally (in Zelda) look at other series that have done what Four Swords did, but better, steal ideas if you have too. drop in gameplay, local and online! but i think im getting too far off topic

so basically what im trying to say is that, instead of looking all the way back, how about we pick up from the middle, as those are the games that innovated on what had been done in the past, so i guess what im saying is Innovate on the innovations that have already been made! I REALLY sorry if none of this makes sense, as to me it does! but my brain aint workin so well right now

I haven't seen an actual NES Zelda manual.
Just a heads up, i recently discovered that if you are in the standard Zelda Dungeon layout, up at the top if you hover your mouse over the "resources" tab, there is a section with all the game manuals in them. i like to bring these things to peoples attention, as they are really good for making Intelligent and Informed Post, where you can fact check yourself before Darkest, and JJ get you on a technicality LOL! Those are hard to get out of once you have been exposed HAHA! here i am giving pointers on how to avoid being quoted for Negative reason! LOL But i guess i got plenty of experience in these things!
 
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Joined
Nov 27, 2012
I think the lack of enjoyment of the game comes from a lack of understanding of the game.

Unlike games of today, this game had a different concept (though not better, I don't think its worse. Just different). The concept isn't beating the game, its just to find stuff. Although today, thats an odd goal when there is literally NOTHING that helps you do that. No cracks in the wall, no slight differences, nothing to tell you what to burn and what to blow up. By todays standards, thats dumb and frustrating. By standards of 10 year olds of the 80's, its exciting.

What lies underneath that rock? Is it anything at all? These are the questions children use to ask themselves. Not only about Zelda, but whenever they were outside. To a child, looking underneath a rock and finding nothing was common, but they still looked. So when they blew up a rock and found nothing, then it was the same. But when they DID find something? how exciting! They would tell all their friends and show them what interesting creature they discovered, its the same when they found a dungeon or who knows what else. That's the appeal to this game, discovering awesome stuff you wouldn't find in real life.

This game wasn't beaten by anyone for months, this games secrets weren't discovered in even more time, but to a kid, thats awesome. What else could be hidden? Where is the next dungeon? What other weapons are there? And once discovered, they had the joy of telling their friends all about it! This game was perfect, because it was before the internet, so no one could just look up how to find things, it was all done through word of mouth, or just by sitting there and playing it.

Today, a concept like this is hard to do, if not impossible. Sure, we can still have exploration, but with the evolution of story and gameplay, it's unlikely we'll have anything like this again. And thats okay. Great even. There is nothing wrong with not going back to this(though we could still learn a thing or two from it), nothing wrong with moving on, I just don't like your idea that this games exploration wasn't good. It was AMAZING... To a 10 year old boy before the internet.

Sorry for the rant, but I just felt like this needed to be said.
 

snakeoiltanker

Wake Up!
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
Ohio
Today, a concept like this is hard to do, if not impossible.
I dont know, Atlus has done well with this concept still, with Demons souls and Dark Souls! but the audience for those game arent huge, and most people only play it cuz they have been told they cant beat it. but we need games like this, to many games are so user friendly with no real learning curve, that games like Demons souls are very welcome in my world, cuz its just nice to have a challenge for once. and no one to hold your hand. you can use a guide for those games, and you may find stuff, but the guide sure as hell wont help the fact that you need to learn how to play the game to defeat even the weakest of enemies in that game!

Edit: Atlus, or From Software, either one you want to credit will do!
 

misskitten

Hello Sweetie!
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Location
Norway
It always peeves me when people insist the first/the oldest is always the best, and especially when they use arguments about how without that thing we wouldn't have what we have today. It is entirely possible to appreciate what something has done to the development of other things without actually liking the thing itself. It's true for all types of media. It has to come from something and develope over time, that's natural. But that doesn't dictate that we have to love what started it all.

Legend of Zelda is a basic, storylacking, openworld game. It was revolutionary for its time, and it started this franchise, so yes, we should appreciate how it spawned the series we all love so much. But that isn't the same as loving the game itself, and we definitely shouldn't have newer games look back to that game as a main inspiration.

Because no matter how revolutionary it was, it wouldn't appeal to many gamers today. It has no story, no motivation for the player to achieve anything. It's very open, but also very empty. It gets repetitive really quickly. Now, I love me a big world to explore, and the option of sidequests and doing your own thing for however long you feel like it. One of many reasons I'm a Fable-fan, for instance. But a game needs a story, a main incentive, goal, something to achieve or prevent.

I would not enjoy Zelda if it returned to the simple open-world with no direction. I can agree that it's getting a bit too linear now, and it would be nice to have the option to change it up to challenge yourself, but completely reverting to the original concept? No, just no, that is taking it too far in the other direction. I don't want to have to cut every piece of grass, bomb every wall "just in case" something vital is behind it, that is repetitive and uninteresting. Less hand-holding? Yes please, it is unnecessary and annoying to have your guide constantly interrupt your gameplay telling you things you could so easily have found out yourself. But no guidance in any way? Too far.
 

Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
Make a Four Swords game, that is easily accessible to play alone and with others. with friend codes out of the way, i dont see why we couldnt have Muti-player Zelda game with some sort of Matchmaking system in place, for easy drop in drop out play! Maybe instead of looking back internally (in Zelda) look at other series that have done what Four Swords did, but better, steal ideas if you have too. drop in gameplay, local and online!
Oh yeah, I think everybody wants this, it worked for Mario, why not for Zelda?

I REALLY sorry if none of this makes sense, as to me it does! but my brain aint workin so well right now
That's me most of the time unfortunately

Just a heads up, i recently discovered that if you are in the standard Zelda Dungeon layout, up at the top if you hover your mouse over the "resources" tab, there is a section with all the game manuals in them. i like to bring these things to peoples attention, as they are really good for making Intelligent and Informed Post, where you can fact check yourself before Darkest, and JJ get you on a technicality LOL! Those are hard to get out of once you have been exposed HAHA! here i am giving pointers on how to avoid being quoted for Negative reason! LOL But i guess i got plenty of experience in these things!
Thanks for the tip Snake.
 
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r2d93

Hero of the Stars
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Location
Lost Woods
Zelda titles today have FAR too many hints and guides for us. I'm not 5 Fi, I know what I'm doing and I'll call you when I need help. Nowadays, the gameplay is constantly interrupted by stupid hints and speeches and directions.

What LoZ did right was its lack of interruption. Though it's true that it had far too little direction and hints. I believe When people say Zelda should look back towards its roots, they are right. But not by doing what LoZ did, by leaning more towards LoZ's approach as opposed to the approach they've been taking recently.
I believe that ALttP and LA had the best system for hints and guides.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
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Somewhere over the rainbow
:dry:the whole burning a tree or bombing a rock business is pretty much my biggest complaint with the originals gameplay. I can see it adding game time and replay value, but now with the ability to just look things up, it really isnt too fun. Its still one of my favorite nes games though...
 

Blue Canary

Your Friendly Neighborhood S***poster
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Feb 11, 2012
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Right Behind You
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Trash Can
I've always thought this. Now, let me say something though, a lot of open roaming exploration is good. But, unlike LoZ, the game should give you help on where to go next to continue the story.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Location
Ohio
I completely agree ALTTP, LA, OOT, and MM were the perfect of balance hints and problem solving. The WW was when the series went down hill in terms of the hint systems.
 

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