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Why OoT COULD NOT Have Started the Imprisoning War

Joined
Nov 18, 2011
The ALttP story in the manual I believe is no longer valid or canon anymore since we now have Hyrule Historia with a timeline that IS OFFICIALLY canon.

According to HH, the Sealing War occurred sometime after Link's defeat in OoT.
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
Two things.
1: Nintendo has said the timeline isn't solid. They say it may contradict itself at one point, is subject to change, and overall they seem to imply they have a level of uncertinty with HH. And also, HH seems to imply with FS, NESLoZ, and AoL that all manuals are just as canon as the games they belong to, dispite details like how improbable it is that "Zelda I" is really the Zelda from SS.
2: it's not just the manual, as the key discrepancies (Hyrule being intact when Ganon makes his wish, Ganon not knowing how to exit the SR and as a result being sealed, and of course collection of the full Triforce) are all described IN GAME. A specific line that made me question this in the first place was "...The one who rediscovered the Golden Land was an evil thief named Ganondorf. Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World..." Ad i just looked up a text dump: this is straight from the mouth of one of the Seven Maidens. when he clearly did such a feat in OoT and thus took over Hyrule. In fact, since ALttP is never stated in OoT to occur directly afterwords, the NOJ manual actually isn't contradicted by anything but HH. A good example is how the Master Sword is said to have been made to guard the Triforce: and then you realize Hylia, it's first user, was given such a task.
 
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Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Two things.
1: Nintendo has said the timeline isn't solid. They say it may contradict itself at one point, is subject to change, and overall they seem to imply they have a level of uncertinty with HH. And also, HH seems to imply with FS, NESLoZ, and AoL that all manuals are just as canon as the games they belong to, dispite details like how improbable it is that "Zelda I" is really the Zelda from SS.

Perhaps, but...

Taken from the official HH site:
Though Hyrule Historia provided the fans with an official timeline, the creators mention that various details had to be overlooked and that fans should just enjoy the series and the new timeline. It is said that the order of events and the details within the timeline change according to who is weaving the tales, and additionally, history is still being spun. Therefore, it may be safe to assume that, years down the road, various aspects of Hyrule Historia may become obsolete as new information could take its place.

... they still say it's official and it's new. To me based on this, the "official and new" timeline is contradicting the story in ALttP's manual which is not new anymore and is now obsolete as new information took it's place (HH).
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
Again, it's not just the manual anymore. One, at first seemingly insignificant bit of backstory, singlehandedly blows a hole in any credibility there is to the claim that OoT and the IW are the same. And this is a QUOTE from a TEXT DUMP. Granted, it IS the GBA version, but it uses more accurate terminology like Sages anyway.

One of the Maidens: "Link, thanks to you, I was able to escape from the clutches of evil. Thank you!...The Triforce will grant the wishes of whoever touches it, as long as that person lives... That is why it was hidden in the Golden Land. Only a select few were told of its location, but at some point that knowledge was lost... The one who rediscovered the Golden Land was an evil thief named Ganondorf. Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World..."
Let's go in and actually examine the ramifications of what that last bit means:
Ganon did not come back to Hyrule after making his wish, as opposed to OoT where he rules it, and The fact that he was able to make a wish on the Triforce from witin the Sacred Realm and was unable to come out means he obtained the Triforce with his first touch, or at least not as described in HH (Where he obtained it in Hyrule immediately following Link's alleged defeat) the former of which requiring a balanced heart, invalidating the two Ganons even being the same due to the statement that the original was unbalanced.
 
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Joined
Aug 12, 2014
What if the three timelines didn't all start at OoT but child and adult after and fallen hero before. the civil war before OoT could have been between the Gerudo and the Hylians. the fallen hero time line could be the stem off of the Gerudo winning and Ocarina of time would be the Hylians winning.
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
What if the three timelines didn't all start at OoT but child and adult after and fallen hero before. the civil war before OoT could have been between the Gerudo and the Hylians. the fallen hero time line could be the stem off of the Gerudo winning and Ocarina of time would be the Hylians winning.

Well, HH claims OoT Splits all three, even though I doubt the validity of a third timeline at all.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
As I recall, HH explains that the imprisoning war happens [shortly? or was it after generations?] AFTER OoT. Zelda and the Sages seal him in the SR without the help of Link, but he soon breaks out and the war starts. I don't have my copy on me to examine the details though.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Well just for the record, I noticed I've gave your posts a "Yeah!" and I had no idea how I did that as I am far from that and agreeing with your THEORY.

Well, HH claims OoT Splits all three, even though I doubt the validity of a third timeline at all.

Well that's too bad because it's stamped as official by Nintendo. ^Reread the quote from the HH site and quit ignoring the facts.

fans should just enjoy the series andthe new timeline

:)
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
Well just for the record, I noticed I've gave your posts a "Yeah!" and I had no idea how I did that as I am far from that and agreeing with your THEORY.



Well that's too bad because it's stamped as official by Nintendo. ^Reread the quote from the HH site and quit ignoring the facts.



:)

Ok. Let me ask you a question, the same question that I have asked before:

Ignore the fact that HH is currently canon. Pretend it's just another timeline theory. Could ya do that for me? Good. I'm asking this because I need to know-

WHICH. ONE. HAS. LESS. CONTRADICTIONS AND FLAWS?

And I'm not talking about things like TMC can only take place after SS because of the Light Force, because claiming that the Light Force and Hylia's blood are the same is an assumption. Or things like how Ganon is sealed in the FS after FSA, because if Ganon is more powerful than Vaati (As many assume) it's not just a possibility he'll break out. FS proves it's a damn near inevitability. I mean things in game, that we have proof for, and solid proof.

After all, HH is "subject to change".
 
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Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Location
The Netherlands
Every timeline is subject to change, since new games can throw everything around (imagine a world with OoT being the next Zelda instalment for example, that would create a huge shift in timelines).
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
The ALttP story in the manual I believe is no longer valid or canon anymore since we now have Hyrule Historia with a timeline that IS OFFICIALLY canon.

According to HH, the Sealing War occurred sometime after Link's defeat in OoT.

Agreed. The way that I rationalize it in my own head canon is that the backstories of each installment is just that: a legend. Altered and changed over time (Fi herself said that oral tradition was the least reliable methods of information retention and transmission). The games that we play are the official account of each story, and supercede the less reliable account that may exist in the backstories of other installments of the series. The fact remains that if Nintendo says that something is canon, it is canon until they say otherwise.
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
I doubt that such an important event would be transmitted solely by oral means. At best, it means the Hylians were short sighted, at worst, they're ****ing invalids. The Sages, at the very least, should have documented it and passed it down, hence why the Maidens know so much about the current events and about Ganon, while normal people seem (mostly) ignorant.

And it doesn't make sense to make a less logical assumption when there is a more logical assumption that Nintendo's placement isn't exactly solid- after all, they did have to randomly pull this **** out of their behinds to make it work, whereas everything else didn't need it and a more logical placement of ALttP would be after FSA, as I have gone into detail explaining. To be honest, unlike works such as television where an episodes come out every week so Word of God matters, Zelda only comes out every few years. Until such a time as they directly integrate such ideas in, let's say for example, Zelda U...

HH doesn't mean a damn thing to the internal chronology. It's completely external until it's incorporated in-game. It could eventually, but as of now, not one bit.
 
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Joined
Aug 24, 2014
While I appreciate fervor as much as the next person, Nintendo is officially the author of the entire series. "ignore the fact that HH is currently canon" is a very strange argument to make. Everyone is entitled to create their own head canon or fan fiction to rationalize inconsistencies, but that is what it then becomes...fan fiction.
For example, the belief that OoT did not immediately precede the Imprisoning War is fan fiction, because it directly contradicts canon. I choose to use Nintendo's preferred method: the acknowledgement of each story being a "legend" and by its very nature malleable. Only what I see actually unfold on the screen is to me 100% accurate. Flashbacks, backstory, wall paintings, etc in each game are subject to revision when those events are actually depicted in-game during future installments.
 

hwrdjacob

The Nintendo Knight
And they're an author that has yet to incorperate HH into a game. Just as you said, only what unfolds on the screen. Ultimately, canon is what is in the games-no more, and no less, aside from the manuals if they are alluded to perhaps (Within reason of course, I'm not implying anything about the CDi). At the moment, yes, it is a fan theory (one based on factual evidence and not fiction), but one that is somehow more consistent than what the actual developer has used as a storyboard concept without relying on fabrications that have no in-game support, which is actually quite baffling and discomforting at the same time to me, in part due to the concept of "snowballing inconsistencies". Furthermore, the Zelda games have yet to directly (or indirectly for that matter) reference HH, as I've stated before. And I don't think Nintendo has said that about the backstories. Ever. In fact, I believe they have implied the opposite. Anyone have a quote?
 
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