General Zelda Why Are Some Zelda Game Bosses So Unoriginal?

[the8thark]

Why are some Zelda game bosses so unoriginal?

Here is a number of examples.

- Gohdan (WW) is a rip off from Andross (from Star Fox)
- Gohma (Ocarina) is a rip off from Gohma (Zelda 1)
- Dark Link (Ocarina) is a rip off from Shadow Link (Zelda 2)
- Argrok (TP) feels similar to Ridley (Metroid games)
- Armogohma (TP) is a rip off from both Gohmas listed above
- Darkhammer (TP) is a rip off from Gooma (Zelda 2). And the idea of a ball and chain enemy has been used a bit in Zelda 3 too.
- Darknut/IronKnuckle bosses in so many Zelda games
- Puppet Ganon and Phantom Ganon in WW then TP had Phantom Zant and Puppet Zelda. Really now more phantoms and puppets? The first Phantom Ganon was in Ocarina.

I am sure you can think of others.

I am a huge Zelda fan. I love the games. But what I just mentioned is really a lack of innovation. What do you all think?

 

[Zurriel]

I'm okay with Oot reusing stuff from the first 3 games, after all this was the game that was trying to make Zelda into a 3D world. Ant the Bosses like Gohdan and Argrok was probably inspired by the other games. The Darknut's are a recurring enemy, like Moblins, but I have no idea why they keep being made into boss battles.
I'm a bit tired of puppet themed bosses though.

 

[Wolf Sage]

Why are you claiming that certain bosses are rip-offs of other bosses within their own series? How is that possible? I mean, why wouldn't a game include references or throwbacks to other games in its own series? A huge lot of people enjoy fighting old, once two-dimensional bosses in 3D with new mechanics and/or gameplay mechanics. References in games are not unprecedented, either; Final Fantasy, for example, showcases a multitude of characters, enemies, and mascots that appear in almost, if not all, the games in the series, and each iteration is redesigned to fit the style of the respective game. This serves to give the series a solid identity, and/or invoke a sense of familiarity and nostalgia in long-time fans.

As for your claim that Zelda rips off of other series. Would it be too much if I asked you to define original and subsequently create a perfectly unique boss on which the majority of fans will agree? Some bosses are bound to look and/or function similar to other bosses seen in other games, but this claim in itself is highly subjective. To come up with bosses that seem 100% original—upon which 1 million-some fans will agree—is nigh impossible. The series would have ended ages ago if it committed itself to dishing out several dozen completely original bosses with each new game.

Lastly, to address your claim regarding the reprisal of puppets, dolls, and phantoms in the series. You do know that puppets, dolls, and phantoms are basically synonymous with dark/black magic, right? Of course there are going to be several varieties of such beings, as they are an extremely common motif in just about any kind of adventure-based medium out there, especially medieval and/or Dark Age-based media. Now I can understand if each of the phantom, puppet, doll bosses in the series were exactly the same, but your complaint appears to be in favor of dropping them altogether regardless of their differences or approach to battle.

 

[tenkashixd]

I like that they did some of this. some times it has to to do with bringing a re imagined version of that boss. ghoma is a staple the temple of time could have used a more original boss sure, but I liked re fighting ghoma with a different strategy. I see where you are coming from but I personally didnt mind it too much. a lot also has to to do with fighting the bosses differently from 2d to 3d. Zelda works well because it keeps the basic familiarity while introducing new things. fighting similar bosses in a new way is a part of that charm in my opinion.

 

[the8thark]

Would it be too much if I asked you to define original and subsequently create a perfectly unique boss on which the majority of fans will agree?

The drum in Ocarina. Not the best boss ever but it was really original. Also the spirit temple boss was pretty unlike anything before it in the series. And a mask being a boss was a pretty good idea too. The Zelda series has had it's fair share of unique and interesting bosses. Just a lot of them are not. My whole point is I agree with you. Zelda as a series is based on rehashing old content over and over again. This is not just limited to bosses. it obviously works as it's sold millions of games. But could a little more originality have been injected into the games? I think so.

 

[BoxTar]

The drum in Ocarina. Not the best boss ever but it was really original. Also the spirit temple boss was pretty unlike anything before it in the series. And a mask being a boss was a pretty good idea too.

What? Bongo Bongo? Sure, him hitting the ground is different, but the method of defeat has been used time and time again.

Andross from Star Fox.

The boss from the Sand level in Mario 64.

Both of those bosses used similar methods of defeat. Kill the hands, then aim for the head. Does it matter? Not really. They each execute them in their own unique way.

I like the fact that Zelda 'reuses' bosses. Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna see the same boss over and over again (Like Girahim), but I don't mid seeing them in other titles, as long as they are slightly different. It shows a connection between the games, that they are all a part of the same environment and world. If suddenly we were fighting aliens and robot ninjas, I would be very confused, unless there was a really convincing storyline to go with it. I guess.

 

[Random Person]

It's not really unoriginality when its done within the series. Its more like a re-occurrence. These are basically the same being or race or whatever, just in the new world.

With the similarities in other series, its either a coincidence or that Nintendo just likes to reuse the idea (hitting the hand as a weakpoint is one of their favorites)

 

[Snow Queen]

Reusing enemies is totally fine. Reusing bosses is also fine. However, if you overdo it, it's going to be boring. Luckily, most reused bosses are revempex and you must fight them differently than before.

 

[JuicieJ]

Bosses like Gohdan and Armogohma aren't unoriginal because they borrow concepts from previous bosses, but rather because their fights flat-out suck. They're one-dimensional and childishly easy, requiring little to no skill to overcome.

It's perfectly fine to re-use familiar concepts -- it's one of the most effective means of non-intrusive fan-service, not to mention keep a series true to itself. It's the execution surrounding concepts, whether old or new, that matters.

 

[HyruleHistory10]

I think it also has to do with the fact that Nintendo team members share ideas across the board so some design choices might be because of that. Also I don't care about them reusing bosses as much as the difficulty (with in reason) should be modified.

 

[Mask-Salesman]

Interesting discussion. Nintendo does has a thing for giant flying things with huge hands (like Bongo Bongo or the Temple of Time Boss from the WW). But then, in your opinion, which bosses were actually innovative? I can't recall which one it was, but someone here will probably know. The boss on a NDS Zelda game. It was invisible but you could see from his point of view on your top screen. That was an awesome and innovative fight for example.

 

[ihateghirahim]

It's tradition. Don't be afraid to see some old friends (or enemies) return. The nostalgia and reusable good design makes some enemies great. I really hope to see more old friends pop up in the future.

 

[Shadow Blade]

I'll say what the others have its not a ripoff if its within its own series it's reuse of ideas and design.

 

[Mask-Salesman]

I'll say what the others have its not a ripoff if its within its own series it's reuse of ideas and design.

It may not be a rip off, but I still find it to be more fun to discover a complete new boss, even more if it's very hard. It may be personal, but to me, originality does add to the gaming fun. I think the most memorable bosses were the most original ones for the biggest part of the Zelda community. If the boss fight makes you experience new things, you remember it and enjoy it even more.

As an example, take the Twinrova. The ice/fire fight was extremely awesome (plus hard) for me as a little kid. It was exciting, innovative and it took some skill to beat. This is why it is still my favorite boss from that particular game. In Majora's Mask, I absolutely loved the fight with Goht (terrible name though ) because it was extremely awesome to race after him as a Goron and jumping on his back. Every Zelda has such an iconic, innovative boss to me. The Wind Waker had Jalhalla (ghost boss that exploded in tiny ghosts), Twilight Princess had the Stallord (funniest boss fight ever) and Argorok (epic dragon fight) and Skyward sword had Koloktos (dunnow why, but my SS favourite).

What I'm trying to say is that originality and innovation does add to the quality for me, even though it may be fun to meet an old boss again.

 

[ZeldaLyrics]

i think reusing enemies is fine and i don't think LoZ really "stole" ideas i guess. they made them their own. i really haven't not had fun doing a boss battle anyways