Where's Ganondorf?

[r2d93]

One of my fantasies for future Zelda games is a game that takes place during the hyrulian civil war. I actually think about the cutscenes and such. But then I got to thinking where Ganondorf would be in the game. Come to think of it, where was he in the Hyrulian civil war at all?

We know that the Hero of Time is born during the HCW and also fathered by a knight of hyrule who died during the HCW. This would place the HCW about a decade before the events of OoT. If it's about a decade before, then its pretty obvious Ganondorf the gerudo king is alive. But where is he during the HCW? It is unknown if the Gerudo participated in this civil war, but i find it hard to believe that they were totally shutout and didnt learn about the triforce until after the war considering gerudo desert is right next to hyrule field. Is it possible that Ganondorf and the Gerudo tribe just sat in their sandbox clueless as to the war happening right next to them? or they actually did fight for the golden power but failed so ganondorf had to come up with a new scheme?

Thoughts please?

 

[OracleOfAwesome]

Woah, the Civil War was fought over the Triforce? I don't remember that being said, I thought it was just some political strife.

 

[Seth]

Correct me if I am wrong but it was never said what the cause of the war ever was, as said by OOA above I thought it was just political strife as well but who knows.
Now from the game we do know that at the start he swore allegiance to the King of Hyrule, he had the King's personal trust so I assumed he probably earned that by helping out the king in the war. I believe the Gerudos assisted Hyrule in reuniting the land. Of course Ganondorf's reason for doing that would be far from virtuous, he no doubt wanted to gain the King's favor so that he could make inroads into getting the Triforce himself.

 

[Blue Window]

We know that Hyrule and the Gerudo tribe is making some sort of agreement in the beginning of OoT. Given that there was a war when the different tribes were united which ended about a decae (or less) before OoT, it seems likely that there exists some kind of connection between those events. An educated guess would be that Ganondorf is around 30 during OoT, which would make his age during the HCW around 20. So, he was probably involved in whatever events the Gerudos were up to.

EDIT: The reason for the HCW is not stated. It is likely that it was not the Triforce, since the Triforce had been sealed away by the Temple of Time since ancient times during OoT,

/Blue Window

 

[Dio]

The Hylian civil war is probably(but not confirmed to be)the interloper war as well, and that would mean the triforce would have been fought over like r2d93 said. On the official timeline the interloper war is not mentioned and there is not a gap for it to take place in, so it can be assumed that the unification war is the same thing. I imagine Ganondorf would have been involved as the Gerudo king. He most likely fought against the OOT king of Hyrule during this war and wanted to obtain the triforce, which is why we see him swearing loyalty to him in OOT. If he was already an ally before that event there would be no need for him to swear loyalty. So if a game came out depicting the war then it is likely that Ganondorf would be in it.

 

[Blue Window]

The Interloper War can't be the Hyrulian Civil War because the Sacred Realm had been sealed for a very long time during OoT. Rauru says that he and the other Ancient Sages constructed the Temple of Time "ages ago" to act as a seal on the Sacred Realm, and the Civil War ended about a decade before OoT. Thus, the Interloper War needs to taken place before OoT.

There is an event called "The Sacred Realm is sealed" on the official timeline, after SS but before Hyrule as a kingdom was established. Since the only other seal on the SR that can exist at that point is the Temple of Time-seal, we can conclude that these seals must be the very same. Thus, we can say that the Interloper War happened before Hyrule was established.

/Blue Window

 

[Seth]

Exactly, the HCW had nothing to do with the Triforce at all. Plus I feel that the king wouldn't have trusted Ganondorf if he hadn't done something for him. That's why I think that he must have assisted the King during the war. He is a smart man, he would want to get on the King's good side because the royal family held the keys to the Triforce which he wanted.

 

[Locke]

The Interloper War can't be the Hyrulian Civil War because the Sacred Realm had been sealed for a very long time during OoT. Rauru says that he and the other Ancient Sages constructed the Temple of Time "ages ago" to act as a seal on the Sacred Realm, and the Civil War ended about a decade before OoT. Thus, the Interloper War needs to taken place before OoT.

There is an event called "The Sacred Realm is sealed" on the official timeline, after SS but before Hyrule as a kingdom was established. Since the only other seal on the SR that can exist at that point is the Temple of Time-seal, we can conclude that these seals must be the very same. Thus, we can say that the Interloper War happened before Hyrule was established.

/Blue Window

There's nothing to say that the SR had to be open in order for the interloper conflict to take place. They were after the Triforce, but they didn't succeed. In fact, what they were really after was the sacred land of Hyrule, so I think it's more likely that it took place after Hyrule was established. But yes, the conflict doesn't fit with the civil war very well. Both can however be seen as part of the long age of bloodshed described in one of the games (sorry, forgot which).

 

[JuicieJ]

I don't think the Civil/Unifying War needs to be featured in a game. It only takes place at the most 10 years before the events in Ocarina of Time, since Link was a baby when he was brought to the Kokiri Forest. There's no need for a game to be featured without a hero to settle it. It was the King of Hyrule that stopped the war, not any past Link, so...

 

[OracleOfAwesome]

I figured the Interloper War was part of the backstory of SS.

 

[r2d93]

"Soon, the other tribes of the land of Hyrule including the Hylians, their attendants the Sheikah, the Zoras, the Gorons, and most other tribes learned about the Golden Power and began to quarrel and fight as they knew what it would mean if one tribe gained the Triforce and could use it to dominate all others."

This is a direct quote from the zeldapedia page for the hyrulian civil war. here is the link to the page : http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Hyrulean_Civil_War

The HCW is talked about briefly in OoT, summarized without the interlopers in the ALttP intro, and is explained in much more detail in TP.
whether you want to argue the validity of the page or this quote, it's pretty simple and il summarize it now.

The multiple tribes in hyrule began to hear rumors of the sacred realm and the wish granting golden power. They realized that if one tribe got hold of this power they could rule all: thus the war begins. The interlopers also heard about it but i dont want to get into that. The light spirits banish the interlopers, and the king unites hyrule under one banner. as for the triforce, Most probably stopped searching for it because, as stated in that page, no one knew the location of the triforce, not even the ancient sages.

and to JucieJ, i think it would be cool haha the hero you play as could be the father of the hero of time and it could directly lead up to OoT. the only problem with that would be your hero would have to die which Nintendo hasnt really done yet. I'm sure they could figure something out

 

[Locke]

"Soon, the other tribes of the land of Hyrule including the Hylians, their attendants the Sheikah, the Zoras, the Gorons, and most other tribes learned about the Golden Power and began to quarrel and fight as they knew what it would mean if one tribe gained the Triforce and could use it to dominate all others."

This is a direct quote from the zeldapedia page for the hyrulian civil war. here is the link to the page : http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Hyrulean_Civil_War

The HCW is talked about briefly in OoT, summarized without the interlopers in the ALttP intro, and is explained in much more detail in TP.
whether you want to argue the validity of the page or this quote, it's pretty simple and il summarize it now.

The multiple tribes in hyrule began to hear rumors of the sacred realm and the wish granting golden power. They realized that if one tribe got hold of this power they could rule all: thus the war begins. The interlopers also heard about it but i dont want to get into that. The light spirits banish the interlopers, and the king unites hyrule under one banner. as for the triforce, Most probably stopped searching for it because, as stated in that page, no one knew the location of the triforce, not even the ancient sages.

I feel like a librarian... don't source wikis! >.< Zeldapedia is about the farthest thing you can get from canon. None of that is actually stated or even implied in the games. OoT merely mentions a "war" before Hyrule was united under the king. LttP just states that "many" searched for the Triforce (this was before the different tribes were introduced to the series anyway). TP only talks about the interlopers.

 

[TheGermanLegend]

"Soon, the other tribes of the land of Hyrule including the Hylians, their attendants the Sheikah, the Zoras, the Gorons, and most other tribes learned about the Golden Power and began to quarrel and fight as they knew what it would mean if one tribe gained the Triforce and could use it to dominate all others."

This is a direct quote from the zeldapedia page for the hyrulian civil war. here is the link to the page : http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Hyrulean_Civil_War

The HCW is talked about briefly in OoT, summarized without the interlopers in the ALttP intro, and is explained in much more detail in TP.
whether you want to argue the validity of the page or this quote, it's pretty simple and il summarize it now.

The multiple tribes in hyrule began to hear rumors of the sacred realm and the wish granting golden power. They realized that if one tribe got hold of this power they could rule all: thus the war begins. The interlopers also heard about it but i dont want to get into that. The light spirits banish the interlopers, and the king unites hyrule under one banner. as for the triforce, Most probably stopped searching for it because, as stated in that page, no one knew the location of the triforce, not even the ancient sages.

and to JucieJ, i think it would be cool haha the hero you play as could be the father of the hero of time and it could directly lead up to OoT. the only problem with that would be your hero would have to die which Nintendo hasnt really done yet. I'm sure they could figure something out

In TP, when we meet Lanayru for the first time he tells us the story about the interlopers. We can clearly see that they were hylians skilled in dark magic. but when we see ganondorfs arrival in the Twilight Realm and his meeting with Zant, thei already transformed into the Twili. I don't think this is possible in a time span of about 10 years :/

 

[r2d93]

I feel like a librarian... don't source wikis! >.< Zeldapedia is about the farthest thing you can get from canon. None of that is actually stated or even implied in the games. OoT merely mentions a "war" before Hyrule was united under the king. LttP just states that "many" searched for the Triforce (this was before the different tribes were introduced to the series anyway). TP only talks about the interlopers.

I'll try to use more ingame evidence and evidence from the recent timeline (this is the 2nd time im typing this so itl be shorter)

Direct quotes from the Lanayru scene:
"But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensued..."
This states that a great battle occurred due to want of the triforce. Now, according to the timeline, Hyrule Kingdom was actually established before the minish cap and after the sealing of the Sacred Realm. Being in this place in the timeline, and referencing to the games around this area, it can be assumed that there are other races in the kingdom of hyrule besides the Hylians (aka the other tribes). Plus you can't really have a great battle between Hylians and interlopers. I bolded spread through Hyrule to show that since there are the other tribes at this time that reside in Hyrule, the must have also heard these rumors about the golden power since it did in fact spread THROUGH Hyrule. So what we get from this is that there was a great battle involving The tribes of Hyrule and the interlopers. We'll mark this as Battle 1.

"Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared..."
Not much evidence is derived from this other than the among those living in the light part. Those living in the light is not just Hylians. This is just more evidence supporting that this battle also had other tribes.

Now this isn't really much evidence, i was just scouring for anything i could find. But say you still disagree and think that the HCW and interloper incident are 2 different events. But according to the timeline there is only one event that shows a great battle between the tribes, and this battle is the HCW. Regardless of if there were other tribes or not, the interloper battle still happened (battle 1). Now if you are saying that the HCW is another battle (battle 2), then that means there are still 2 great battles when only one is confirmed and recorded. Now if you still think there could still be an unconfirmed battle, then i'm curious as to where you would place it.

 

[Blue Window]

Originally Posted by Locke

There's nothing to say that the SR had to be open in order for the interloper conflict to take place. They were after the Triforce, but they didn't succeed. In fact, what they were really after was the sacred land of Hyrule, so I think it's more likely that it took place after Hyrule was established. But yes, the conflict doesn't fit with the civil war very well. Both can however be seen as part of the long age of bloodshed described in one of the games (sorry, forgot which).

We can start by asking oursevles why the Golden Goddesses would intervene and send the Light Spirits to seal the Interlopers to the Twilight Realm if they couldn't acquire the Triforce to begin with (if it was sealed off inside the Sacred Realm)? Anyway, this is the quotation from Lanayru desribing the Interloper War:

Originally Posted by Lanayru

The lands where the goddesses descended came to be known as the Sacred Realm. For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body… But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensued… Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared. Wielding powerful sorcery, they tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm.

We can compare this to a translation from the Historia (posted by ShiKage on Zelda Informer, 2/1-2012)

The almighty power of folklore was lusted over by many, many people and there was a never ending struggle over the Triforce.

The Sage of Light, Rauru, constructed the Temple of Time around the only entrance to the Sacred Realm which housed the Triforce. The Sacred Realm was sealed with the Master Sword, along with the ability to pass through time. The Master Sword's pedestal was closed off behind the Door of Time and three sacred stones acted as keys, which were guarded by the trusted people of the forest, the people of water, and the people of fire.

The Triforce was enshrined in the Temple of Light and Rauru was isolated from the world inside the Sacred Realm to continue to protect the power of the gods.

There was a (actually several) wars over the Triforce, and then Rauru seals it away by constructing the Temple of Time. The Interloper War (which is actually several conflicts) took place when the word of the Sacred Realm spread. Rauru sealed the Sacred Realm when people already knew of, and had fought over, the Triforce. Ergo, the Interloper War took place before the sealing of the Sacred Realm.

/Blue Window