What would you call a good Dungeon?

[Ashley the Witch]

There's opinions on a good dungeon or not, some prefer easy ones, others hard. Some prefer long dungeons, others prefer short. What's your take on the matter? In my opinion, if a dungeon doesn't make me stumped for hours, I wouldn't consider it a good dungeon. Nor if the dungeon is too short even with that hours long puzzle solution. Some of the shrines in Breath of the Wild, have not very obvious solutions, but all of them are extremely short. So I wouldn't consider any of those good "Dungeons" per se. A Dungeon should have multiple puzzles, ones that really test your thinking and logic capabilities, if they don't do a good job exercising my brain, and pushing the games items to their maximum capabilities, what's the point in even having them there? My favorite game is Twilight Princess, there's a multitude of reasons why I love it, and one of the reasons is because the dungeons are long, plentiful, and really tests your thinking and observation capabilities. There's three dungeons that I constantly get stuck in, even on repeat playthroughs. It shows they know how to make good dungeons. The theming of the dungeon also has a factor, and nearly all of the dungeons in Twilight Princess are memorable.

 

[MW7]

I agree with almost everything you said except I would say a dungeon should have the potential to stump a player rather than need to stump a player to be good. My favorite Twilight Princess dungeon is Snowpeak Ruins which has excellent theming and some complex puzzles. I haven't been stuck in that dungeon in years, but I really enjoy it every time I play through it.

Length and complexity are big factors in making a dungeon good. Theming can enhance the dungeon as well.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

I agree with almost everything you said except I would say a dungeon should have the potential to stump a player rather than need to stump a player to be good. My favorite Twilight Princess dungeon is Snowpeak Ruins which has excellent theming and some complex puzzles. I haven't been stuck in that dungeon in years, but I really enjoy it every time I play through it.

Length and complexity are big factors in making a dungeon good. Theming can enhance the dungeon as well.

Yeah. That's what I meant to say, the potential to stump a player makes it good. I didn't actually mean that it would have to. Snowpeak Ruins has my favorite block pushing puzzles in the series, as well as the ones in the cave in Northern Hyrule.

 

[Reiquel]

Counterquestion: what would you call a bad dungeon?

I'd say one that's unbeatable without using glitches or has a theme that's doesn't fit with the game.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

Counterquestion: what would you call a bad dungeon?

I'd say one that's unbeatable without using glitches or has a theme that's doesn't fit with the game.

What would you call a theme that doesn't fit with the game anyway? There's a lot of dungeons that I would consider fits very well, the others would say otherwise. The Shadow Temple is a great example, I find it fitting in the game's story, but others say it doesn't fit in when contrasted with the other dungeons and surrounding areas.

 

[Reiquel]

What would you call a theme that doesn't fit with the game anyway? There's a lot of dungeons that I would consider fits very well, the others would say otherwise. The Shadow Temple is a great example, I find it fitting in the game's story, but others say it doesn't fit in when contrasted with the other dungeons and surrounding areas.

Hard to say much without hearing more details on why they think that - I don't think think the Shadow Temple is out of place at all. Where do they think it should be, Twilight Princess?

 

[Ashley the Witch]

Hard to say much without hearing more details on why they think that - I don't think think the Shadow Temple is out of place at all. Where do they think it should be, Twilight Princess?

Never talked to the people I know long enough to hear why they think that. Only met them once or twice during my school days.

 

[Mima_sama]

A good dungeon should be not too short and not too long, with challenging but fair puzzles, and a layout that isn't utterly confusing. It should also fit the theme of the area it's in (unless there's a good story reason why it doesn't). And ideally, you shouldn't have to visit it over and over again in the same playthrough. I'm looking at you, Temple of the Ocean King.
I feel that things like length and difficulty should vary based on the position of the dungeon-- early-game dungeons shouldn't be overly long or difficult, as they're meant to be an introduction into how the dungeons of the game will work. Conversely, late-game dungeons should be the biggest and most challenging, as they are the ultimate test of everything you've learned and done in the game.

As an aside, the Shadow Temple totally fits the area it's in-- it's essentially an executioners' grounds hidden in the graveyard of Kakariko Village, which was founded by the Sheikah (who, among other things, would do all the dirty work-- including, but not limited to torture and assassinations-- for the Hylian Royal family). Kakariko is also where the Bottom of the Well dungeon, a torture chamber, also exists. In OoT, Kakariko had only just been opened to the public, so Impa likely didn't have time to... clean things up. (Ocarina of Time is a darker game than most people seem to think. It's just... the graphics haven't aged that well.)

 

[GZ Zelda]

What makes a dungeon good are theme, combat, puzzles, exploration, story, boss and atmosphere.

My favorite dungeon, Hyrule Castle from Breath of the Wild, excels in six of these areas.

The theme is strong: cohesive, understandable, narratively-linked and a true setpiece.

The combat is challenging, sophisticated, varied and engaging. There are two mini-bosses, two Lynel fights, a plethora of difficult enemies inside, and challenging guardians outside.

The exploration is complicated, detailed, non-linear and surprising. There are a number of different rooms to discover, many different floors, a variety of entrances and traversal methods, and secrets abound.

The story is compelling, tragic, understandable and mysterious. There are diaries, intricate rooms with environmental details, and a clear history and importance to Hyrule's legacy.

The boss is engaging and very fun to fight. Assuming you've cleared the Divine Beasts, Calamity Ganon serves as a great test of the perfect parry and is an easy but rewarding challenge at the end of the game. Assuming you've cleared none of the Divine Beasts, the boss is a 10-phase behemoth of a fight that puts all other final gauntlets to shame.

The atmosphere is excellent, foreboading, ominous and epic. The music is a great rendition of the Dark Hyrule Castle theme, the visual presentation is terrifying and exhilirating, and their are goodies around every corner that add to this history (even more with DLC).

The puzzles are not very strong. There are some puzzles in the Lockup and the Library, and there are Korok puzzles throughout, but nothing as strong as Naboris or some of the shrines.

My least favorite dungeon is Midoro Palace.

The theme is weak: why is there a palace in this swamp? Who lives here? What is it for? How does it tie into the nearby Saria Town? Not a setpiece. And the Death Mountain lead-in leaves a bad taste in the mouth even before beginning the dungeon.

The combat is bad: no interesting enemies other than Guma and Wosu, not enough magic or sword skills to be fun, the item is boring.

There is one puzzle regarding the Handy Glove, but it is simple and boring.

The exploration isn't interesting: the dungeon is small and very linear, and there are few secrets.

The story isn't important at all.

The boss is terrible; not as bad as the Island Palace or the Palace on the Sea, but still not fun.

The atmosphere is bad and there is no indication that the dungeon is in a swamp. The blue is elegant but boring, the music is identical, the item and boss have nothing to do with the rest of the dungeon.

Theme and atmosphere can seem similar, but theme is the "overall" feel and atmosphere is "visuals and sound" with some story and vibe laced in.

These seven factors are the most important criteria when evaluating Zelda dungeons.

 

[MW7]

A bad dungeon would have few redeeming qualities. The quality of dungeons is so high across the series so I feel like I have to nitpick. Some dungeons age better than others though for example I think the dungeons at the beginning of Zelda 1 and 2 are very simplistic compared to today, but dungeons from ALttP onwards still hold up well for the most part. 3d dungeons in particular are very good generally. I think the worst 3d dungeon would be the return visit to the Forsaken Fortress in WW as it has several of the basic elements of a dungeon like a miniboss, item, map, and boss that gives a heart container, but there really seems to not be much to do there. This seems to be by design as it's the return visit, but there could have been a lot more effort put into this return visit like how the Skyview Temple in SS has a whole new set of challenges on the return visit. The return visit to the Forsaken Fortress is a mini-boss fight followed by traveling to a boss. It has the elements of a dungeon but feels like it only exists to move the plot.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

In my opinion, shrines are terrible dungeons.

 

[GZ Zelda]

In my opinion, shrines are terrible dungeons.

I think if you think of all the shrines as one mini-dungeon, they become much easier to digest.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

I think if you think of all the shrines as one mini-dungeon, they become much easier to digest.

I never thought of that actually.

 

[Daku Rinku]

Music is key, to set the tone, I personally love Shadow Temple and original Zelda dungeon music (please make it return with updates Nintendo), good puzzles that fit the aesthetic and theme of the dungeon, items that are useful outside the dungeon (cough Longshot), and a memorable boss.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

Music is key, to set the tone, I personally love Shadow Temple and original Zelda dungeon music (please make it return with updates Nintendo), good puzzles that fit the aesthetic and theme of the dungeon, items that are useful outside the dungeon (cough Longshot), and a memorable boss.

Yeah. The Longshot is only useful in getting very few Gold Skultulas and past the Haunted Wasteland.