Ocarina of Time What OoT 3D Did Wrong

[Beauts]

I agree with most of what you say, especially about the Water Temple being easier on the 3DS. The doors are colour coded!
Other than that though, concerning the Temple, I think the change in the way you switch boots makes it 1000 times less annoying to play through.
I also like the graphics. There is something about the original graphics I like, and I agree about Adult Link looking baby-faced in the 3DS version takes some of the edge off him. I agree the Well and Shadow Temple were less scary, but those places used to make me cry when I was little so I'm not really making any complaints here. I always found the Shadow Temple the second easiest (after the Fire Temple) to complete and the fear factor was the only challenge for me, which after a few play through's is lessened anyway and adds nothing to the experience.
I do agree also about Ganondorf and Ganon's look though. Not the same!
Aside from the above though, I like the remake, although I will always prefer the good old N64 controller as a means of navigation through Hyrule.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I felt that there were no flaws in the game that didn't contribute to its overall awesomeness. Difficulty was concentrated throughout. The exception is the Water Temple. I thought I had most of my puzzle-solving and battle abilities down. Then the Water Temple Comes along and makes me realize I have a long way to go. I realized that I had to improve and persevere if I was to overcome the challenges Shigeru Miyamoto throws at me. I enjoy a war of difficulty. They challenge us with hard but satisfying challenges, and we war to outdo them.

People call it the best game ever made. They rate it 10/10. THey love it. I just don't feel its fair to make little changes that alter the experience of a great game. We get bad changes. We get fans not getting the same experience despite playing games with the same title. Its a disgrace. If you do find a flaw, you should correct it not in OoT remakes, but by using the lesson learned to make future installments better. Learn from you mistakes, but don't try to erase the past and alter what it is we experience and cherish. You might add to a game to increase the experience, thus make Boss Rush. You might also have to make a change or two out of simply necessity, but no more. You don't touch a priceless painting because it has on brush stroke out of place, do you? OoT 3D represents a failure to remember what a great masterpiece the first game is.

This still doesn't change the fact that the changes made benefited the game rather than hindering it, the whole switching to the Iron Boots was not a stand out feature that made things difficult, it was an inconvenience. OoT3D changed that and how could something like this be a reason as to why to hate on the game? Look it's clear that you are a big fan of Ocarina of Time and that's fine but you can't expect a remake to be the exact same game, if you want the same experience then play the original version. However those who may be new to the franchise may find these little inconveniences bad points of the game, therfore the game improved on this and many other aspects. This remake wasn't just meant to be OoT now on 3DS it was meant to be a modern take on the game and this meant an improvement on detail, graphics, controls and fixing any small flaws within the game.

 

[ihateghirahim]

These "improvements" alter the experience for the worse. They also create different experiences for different people; thus bringing down the universal magic of OoT to a simple concept you slash and destroy. You don't just alter a great painting because you don't like one small detail. They should take any gripes about the game and use the lesson learned to improve future installments; although I can't find any.

 

[Justac00lguy]

These "improvements" alter the experience for the worse. They also create different experiences for different people; thus bringing down the universal magic of OoT to a simple concept you slash and destroy. You don't just alter a great painting because you don't like one small detail. They should take any gripes about the game and use the lesson learned to improve future installments; although I can't find any.

To be honest what you are saying doesn't really make sense, I think your one of the first people to actually hate on the remake for making such improvements. No game is ever perfect, OoT was great for its time however I do believe if the same version was released now it wouldn't have had the same impact. So bringing the game to the modern era, improvements had to be made, even if they were minor as I stated before not everyone had played OoT, Nintendo were not only remaking the game but bringing it to a newer audience. You make reference to a painting right? However if one could improve the painting, therefore making it better why wouldn't they do it?

 

[Ventus]

You make reference to a painting right? However if one could improve the painting, therefore making it better why wouldn't they do it?

I'm not 100% with IHG but I definitely see where he's coming from. Say some artist gained a lot of prestige and notoriety for a painting that was imperfect due to a smudge. Regardless of said smudge, people every learned of his/her painting and they've loved it forever. Then, X years later, he comes out with this painting that is fundamentally the same as the one he was regarded highly for, but of course that smudge is gone. That one imperfection was still loved, and changing it is almost like turning the switch on/off for some people.

 

[Green Hat Hero]

Locke's first post above pretty much sums up my feelings on the original post (although ihateghirahim's point about Ganon being more lucid at the end is an interesting one). However, this got to me:

You don't touch a priceless painting because it has on brush stroke out of place, do you? OoT 3D represents a failure to remember what a great masterpiece the first game is.

This comparison with a painting gets me thinking, because there's something to be said about a great work of art, warts and all, and how special it can be to a person. Movies, video games, songs, even books and probably even paintings are remade all the time, sometimes by the same artist(s), sometimes by different ones. I think most would agree that if a remake of a movie is inferior to the original, the original still has merit and still remains the great work that it is. However, it's unfortunate that sometimes, with any remake, consumers might not know of the original, or oftentimes have never experienced it. And thus, if one feels the remake is inferior in some way, it's frustrating see those who praise the remake and ignore the original work. Also, if some call the remake an "improvement", it's doubly frustrating if you feel the original is superior.

So basically what I'm saying is that while I disagree with much of what ihateghirahim said about OoT3D, I can understand where he's coming from. I actually have my own fears surrounding the upcoming The Wind Waker remake, which is a game that I love as much as it seems ihg loves Ocarina of Time.

 

[ihateghirahim]

Why is Ventus liking everything?

 

[Justac00lguy]

I'm not 100% with IHG but I definitely see where he's coming from. Say some artist gained a lot of prestige and notoriety for a painting that was imperfect due to a smudge. Regardless of said smudge, people every learned of his/her painting and they've loved it forever. Then, X years later, he comes out with this painting that is fundamentally the same as the one he was regarded highly for, but of course that smudge is gone. That one imperfection was still loved, and changing it is almost like turning the switch on/off for some people.

I get where he is coming from in a sense but one can't expect a remake to be made in the exact same way just like the original. You set your self up to fail in this respect, so even if the game didn't have any improvements whatsoever it could be said that it still isn't the same for the fact it got an upgrade in graphics or on a new console etc. OoT3D was an improvement on the games design however of course it all comes down to opinion at the end of the day and many fans may have their nostalgia goggles on when comparing the two. However one has to consider that Nintendo simply had to make these changes in order to bring the game to the modern era and newer audiences

 

[Satsy]

Only that's not accurate. OoT's remake wasn't improving a smudge. A more accurate simile would be an artist who drew something good, but they knew they could do better. Artists do this often, illustrators as well. You can love an image, but the artist will see everything wrong and know they can improve on it and make it far more amazing.

(some do, sometimes years down the line, and new people are blown away by the new stuff).

For everyone grouching over the addition of 'hand-holding', are you saying that as someone who was new to the games and disappointed that you didn't get to muddle through it, or as someone who could recite each puzzle from memory already? Are you upset that someone else isn't going to experience the frustration and achievement you did? Why? Someone new to the series being upset about this I could drop the subject, but that's very much not the impression some of you are giving.

 

[Ventus]

Only that's not accurate. OoT's remake wasn't improving a smudge. A more accurate simile would be an artist who drew something good, but they knew they could do better. Artists do this often, illustrators as well. You can love an image, but the artist will see everything wrong and know they can improve on it and make it far more amazing.

(some do, sometimes years down the line, and new people are blown away by the new stuff).

For everyone grouching over the addition of 'hand-holding', are you saying that as someone who was new to the games and disappointed that you didn't get to muddle through it, or as someone who could recite each puzzle from memory already? Are you upset that someone else isn't going to experience the frustration and achievement you did? Why? Someone new to the series being upset about this I could drop the subject, but that's very much not the impression some of you are giving.

1) Considering the fact that the majority of things that OoT3D improved or otherwise changed were very minor, I'd liken them to smudges moreso than the overall painting being changed from 'good' to 'great'.

2) I'm saying that as both a new player and a veteran. I remember well my early days of OoT - I would never complete dungeons because I was too scared (and didn't know what to do ), but I'd spend a ton of time with playing dead man's volley against Ganondorf (human). I remember being stuck in the Water Temple 3 years after my first N64—and my gold cartridge of OoT. I remember the pure challenge that the base game offered to an unsuspecting mind. A lot of it (not all) is eradicated from OoT3D, and thus IHG is in the right here: much of the original value was removed for the sake of making the game more 'player-friendly' even when the game is accessible enough [if we could do OoT64 and love it all with only a select few pointing fingers at the supposed "ALttP in three dimensions" argument, why should we make it even easier?]

 

[r2d93]

Well first off to be fair, I didn't experience the original as a child. I played the original 3 times and the master quest once all on emulators about 2 years ago so I don't have nostalgia or anything from it (Then again maybe that makes me a more neutral party and more fit to judge between the two )

But anyways, you played the original as a kid right? then it's no wonder why you aren't as scared by Ganon/Ganondorf and the shadow temple and everything else anymore. You've grown. You're clearly gonna have nostalgia of being scared as a child, so it's no surprise why a brighter enhanced version on a handheld device would scare you less.

The same goes for you thinking the game is too bright and colorful. as a kid you probably thought the game was cool and realistic and you looked up to adult link but now since they smoothed out the rough edges and redesigned his face you think he looks stupid and childish. I understand where you're coming from on that, but I think OoT3D adult link is what adult link should look like. the original link looked ugly with his big pointy nose and his slanty eyes.

Then again it's your personal opinion

 

[Green Hat Hero]

Perhaps an apt. comparison for ihateghirahim would be the changes George Lucas made to the original Star Wars trilogy. For ihg, OoT3D is like Nintendo doing what Lucas did (from many Star Wars fans' perspectives).

Personally, I think OoT3D is mostly stellar, and from what I've heard (I'm not a big Star Wars guy), Lucas's changes were at best silly and unnecessary and at worst diminish the quality of the originals. But for ihg this might be a good comparison.

 

[ihateghirahim]

The Star Wars prequels are in many ways similar. However, this is an actual remake. They're a continuation of the series similar to every new Zelda game. George did do something different. tried to change everything Star Wars was about. He ruined it, and he actually altered the original movies to make them fit in with the continuity of the prequels (unsuccessfully). So I guess its a good comparison. The mentality of OoT 3d could potentially lead to what George Lucas did to Star Wars: A crime from which no man can redeem himself.

 

[DarkestLink]

Go back and play OoT 64 then and let the newbies play the superior game.

While I agree OoT3DS is better, I think newbies should play the original first.

 

[HylianHero]

I felt that there were no flaws in the game that didn't contribute to its overall awesomeness. Difficulty was concentrated throughout. The exception is the Water Temple. I thought I had most of my puzzle-solving and battle abilities down. Then the Water Temple Comes along and makes me realize I have a long way to go. I realized that I had to improve and persevere if I was to overcome the challenges Shigeru Miyamoto throws at me. I enjoy a war of difficulty. They challenge us with hard but satisfying challenges, and we war to outdo them.

Its funny you mention Shigeru Miyamoto when talking about the challenge of the Water Temple. Because when OoT3D was announced at E3 2010 he said he had been haunted by guilt and regret for the last ten years over it's difficulty. He said this was the one dungeon he regretted having created.

So I'm on Miyamoto's side on this one. The changing of the Iron Boots mechanic wasn't a change in difficulty, it was a change in the amount of frustration. The lights weren't a change in difficulty either, they were a change in the level of confusion. Both changes were getting rid of negative aspects that were just impeding the dungeon's true sense of difficulty. Plus, I thought the lights looked pretty cool