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Ocarina of Time What OoT 3D Did Wrong

Kirino

Tatakae
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
USA
The changes to the Water Temple made the thing as a whole at least 5x less frustrating, less time-consuming and ultimately easier than the original release's. This isn't objectively a problem; you want a game to be accessible and easy to complete for as many folks as possible. However, when you find an oldbies fan come along and play OoT3D...there's a sense of accomplishment that is utterly lost when you have your hand held with your approval or not. The same thing applies to the boots - you DO want them to be easy to equip and easy to use since this is attractive to consumers, but again when you go from having to open the menu, wave to the item subscreen and equip/de-equip to a simple button press, the sense of accomplishment is lost. In other words, OoT3D is too streamlined.

First of all, what changes were made to the Water Temple that made it easier? Second of all, are you seriously trying to tell me that they should of made us go through all that extra work to put on a pair of boots? To feel a sense of accomplishment? Feeling a sense of accomplishment for going to a menu and putting on...boots?
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
Since when was OoT EVER a dark game? Seriously, it's not that big of a deal. I still got the shivers when I went to the Shadow Temple, when I faced a ReDead, when I wandered the Forest Temple.

OoT isn't a dark game through and through, but the hints that it was a dark game IMO are completely destroyed thanks to the much brighter colors. I mean, in the Forest Temple of N64/GC/Wii, I felt like I was trapped in a maze (probably becuase the N64 had horrible graphics but who knows ;) ). In 3D, I felt as if I were just "in another area". That isn't a bad thing...but it doesn't feel right.

First of all, what changes were made to the Water Temple that made it easier? Second of all, are you seriously trying to tell me that they should of made us go through all that extra work to put on a pair of boots? To feel a sense of accomplishment? Feeling a sense of accomplishment for going to a menu and putting on...boots?

The colored pathways that bled led to each area where you can turn the water up/down made the Temple easier. Back in '98 we had to remember which room did what. Now? Oh, just follow the lines! Ha, they don't need to remember that because 2EZ amirite? :right:

I'm not saying we should have to put up with the inventory system of oldschool Ocarina. However, it'd be a nice feeling. New games do the same thing, and I'll use ZombiU as an example. Though the animations of that game are horrible and stiff, it still features having to drag and drop things you desire to equip and what not. In a way, it feels like OoT because you have to stop what you're doing and focus to take things out/put them in. Yeah, it isn't the most comfortable, but it leaves accomplishment to the player. :I
 
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DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Can you tell me the changes you're talking about? Because I don't remember anything like that, and google didn't help much.

The two biggest offenders that come to mind are...

1) The room where you set the water to medium level. There was this hidden room below the floating block. The game did show you the floating block, but only after searching where you inspired with the idea that there might be something under that block...and so there was--a hidden room. I felt like a ****ing genius when I found that!

In OoT 3DS, however, they zoom in on this hidden passageway, making sure nobody misses it.

2) In the room where you get the longshot, there is a time block behind the chest. In the original, it's hidden on the ground and only after checking your map and scouring the temple did you realize that something was in this room with the chest. In OoT3DS, they make it pop out at you...it's impossible to miss and completely destroys the puzzle.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Every single one of your reasons are improvements IMO.

The visuals
Zelda is not a "dark and gritty" series, and OoT is no exception. The graphics and lighting were updated to create a more engaging atmosphere. Actual darkness isn't as important a factor in eliciting fear as you might think. The more detailed and vibrant visuals do more to engage one's emotions, coupled with other atmosphere-producing elements such as sound and enemy behavior.

I know the dungeons are from the Master Quest, and I don't know why that change was made.
?

I am really mad that they changed the game mechanics used to change your boots. Its now just a one button ride. We 64 users got to pause the game and flip around to simply switch our footwear.
This must be pure satire. It sounds like one of those "Well back in my day..." stories meant to make younger generations jealous of how difficult things used to be. Truth is this kind of difficulty is simply bad. All the work it took to change the boots was just that - work. It wasn't challenging, it didn't add anything to the experience, and most importantly the act of pausing the game brings the experience to an abrupt halt, breaking immersion. Improving player efficacy is always a good thing in games. (not to be confused with improving player-character efficacy, as in what the protagonist is allowed to do)

This is coupled with changes to the Water Temple to make it easier. All the difficulty, skill, and complex water-raising have been removed in favor of the quick and easy path (which goes against the point of a Master Quest). Therefore these kids who "beat the water temple" are really not going through what we went through. They didn't do half of what we did, and they'll still say they beat it. It ain't fair.
This is simply not true. All the difficulty, skill, and complex water-raising are still there, and there is no easy path. The only change I'm aware of is the lines guiding the player to the key water-changing points. This is another case of improving efficacy. "I know I need to raise the water level but I don't know where the switch is so I'm going to wander aimlessly for an hour" is just frustrating, and involves no difficulty or skill whatsoever. The Water Temple is not easier; it's less time-consuming and frustrating.

EDIT: Thanks DarkestLink, fair points.

I also do not care for the simple fact that the Gossip stones have been replaced by. . .whatever those hint-giving things were. They were a source of mystery and interest, but now their here to to tell you things. We didn't get special hints. We didn't even have internet walkthroughs. (It's possible some of you did, but we didn't even have a computer) They just took the wonderful rocket-sidequest-cryptic babble-stones and made them hint factories.
Another falsehood. The Sheikah Stones did not replace the Gossip Stones. The latter are still there in all their rocket-sidequest-cryptic mystery. The Sheikah Stones are also completely optional.

We recently discussed censorship, and I'm against it. The tone and atmosphere of the Fire Temple and Ganondorf dying are altered into inferior forms. Although this admittedly isn't as big a deal as some other factors.
afaik that was done in OoT 1.1 for the N64, so it isn't an OoT 3D issue at all.
 

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Inside the Moon
OoT was a magical game. We all loved it. You don't fix what's not broken. Remakes and changes alter the experience and cause each of us to know a different game. Remakes force us to have different experiences, instead we've each had different experiences. The changes in OoT 3D alter the beauty of OoT and prevent us from admiring its beauty as one.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
OoT was a magical game. We all loved it. You don't fix what's not broken. Remakes and changes alter the experience and cause each of us to know a different game. Remakes force us to have different experiences, instead we've each had different experiences. The changes in OoT 3D alter the beauty of OoT and prevent us from admiring its beauty as one.
Go back and play OoT 64 then and let the newbies play the superior game.
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
OoT was a magical game. We all loved it. You don't fix what's not broken. Remakes and changes alter the experience and cause each of us to know a different game. Remakes force us to have different experiences, instead we've each had different experiences. The changes in OoT 3D alter the beauty of OoT and prevent us from admiring its beauty as one.
I'm not fully sure what you mean but remakes are essentially made to remake the original game and in this case bring a classic like Ocarina of Time into the modern era. There is no point in bringing OoT to the modern era if it is still going to be the same game back on the N64, OoT was a great game and sure it was revolutionary for its time but it was in our way without its flaws. With time comes an advancement in both technology and gameplay, OoT3D did this by making a number of improvements, some of the points you mentioned in the OP were actual improvements.

To be honest I don't see the problem with this edition, maybe the fact that it's on a handheld or just general nostalgia point of views preferring the original, either way I think OoT3D improved on one of the most influential games of all time.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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Hylian Champion
@ihg Remakes are used to translate a game to a new audience. Of course new or altered experiences will be present. It's like that from Resident Evil to REmake. Same base material, but the remake tends to put a different spin on said material.

Go back and play OoT 64 then and let the newbies play the superior game.

Hum...what makes OoT3D superior to OoT64? Bar the graphical output, I think we both achieve the same results playing the base game, with one having the easier time of the two. :I
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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Hylian Champion
Is ease not a part of a game? The difficulty can and has affected the presentation and feel of this game.

Right, but OoT has never been so ridiculously hard bar a couple moments (at least by general consensus; those couple moments were entirely isolated incidents in the Water Temple). I wager that 3D didn't 'kill' its namesake, but it isn't the same (which isn't a bad thing, of course, just different).
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
Is ease not a part of a game? The difficulty can and has affected the presentation and feel of this game.

Difficulty should not be implemented through flaws though, it only makes the player more frustrated, it doesn't implement a true sense of difficulty. OoT3D simply improved on this by making the mechanic much easier, as you are allowed to select the Iron Boots much more efficiently.
 

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Inside the Moon
I felt that there were no flaws in the game that didn't contribute to its overall awesomeness. Difficulty was concentrated throughout. The exception is the Water Temple. I thought I had most of my puzzle-solving and battle abilities down. Then the Water Temple Comes along and makes me realize I have a long way to go. I realized that I had to improve and persevere if I was to overcome the challenges Shigeru Miyamoto throws at me. I enjoy a war of difficulty. They challenge us with hard but satisfying challenges, and we war to outdo them.

People call it the best game ever made. They rate it 10/10. THey love it. I just don't feel its fair to make little changes that alter the experience of a great game. We get bad changes. We get fans not getting the same experience despite playing games with the same title. Its a disgrace. If you do find a flaw, you should correct it not in OoT remakes, but by using the lesson learned to make future installments better. Learn from you mistakes, but don't try to erase the past and alter what it is we experience and cherish. You might add to a game to increase the experience, thus make Boss Rush. You might also have to make a change or two out of simply necessity, but no more. You don't touch a priceless painting because it has on brush stroke out of place, do you? OoT 3D represents a failure to remember what a great masterpiece the first game is.
 

Satsy

~~SaturnStorm
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Somewhere small
I'd rather they poured their love into a remake, to get across their intentions for everyone to enjoy, than throw out another 10 ports that only those with nostalgia glasses will enjoy. They've done both. The remake is fine.
 

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