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What is your opinion on Grandmaster stages?

Joined
Oct 14, 2013
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Australia
The term "Grandmaster" comes from Super Mario Galaxy 2, the Grandmaster Galaxy. This final stage in Super Mario Galaxy 2 has a difficulty much higher than any other in the game. So much so that the hard version of this stage "The Perfect Run" is something many people can not complete. This concept of a final stage so much harder than the rest of the game however has been done before that, just Super Mario Galaxy 2 gave the concept a name.

What is your opinion on games that have a final stage (be it main story or side quests) or final boss that is so much harder than the rest of the game? Something so hard that many players can reach easily but can't beat?
 

Musicfan

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Elizabeth from persona 3 you need to get her down to almost exactly 9999 hp and cast amrageden on her. cast it to soon she nucks you cast it to late she nukes you. On top of that you need to get her to fully heal her self once. Not to mention you have to do this fight solo and she hurts so much.
 

Castle

Ch!ld0fV!si0n
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That's kind of a dick move. I mean, difficulty should be well balanced throughout. I get the idea that the final trial should test the hero's mettle like nothing else, but to make it stupidly hard is awfully unfair. Sure you can make a game like dark souls where players know that it's going to kick their butts from front to back, but suddenly having a near impossible to complete final level when the difficulty has been at least largely manageable throughout feels like pulling the rug out from under players. Maybe a lot of players will be frustrated and denied the satisfaction of completing the game? Maybe others will be even more satisfied after having done it? The problem is consistency. If players don't expect the game to suddenly get super punishing, then that's unfair.

I didn't know Galaxy 2 did this.
 
Joined
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Location
Australia
One that annoyed me a lot was the Captain Toad last stage. A 50 level dungeon. A maze where you could never stand still. Avoiding everything for 50 levels and not getting caught by the thing chasing you. So very annoying. It's also so very hard. Much harder than the rest of the game. The thing that gets to me the most here is the stage is so different to the rest of the game. The rest of the game is very puzzle like. This stage is a super tough race for the most part. I never beat this stage. I have gotten half way though and when I failed, I just gave up. In my opinion this should never have been in the game because it's not what the game is about, a great puzzler.

Another one that exists is the Breath of the Wild, Master Sword Trials. Sure the beginner and middle trials are doable with some skill, but the expert trials are crazy hard. Many people ahve told me, they are harder than the last boss of the game even. Sure many people will say, a hard set of stages in a hard game is fine. But I disagree. BotW as a game is initally hard but with over time you get better at the game and it's not so hard anymore, and the game is about exploration first and everything else second. A side set of challenges this hard is just not fun and is very out of place within what the game is. No one like Zelda 2 - Adventure of Link because of the difficulty curve there, but they seem to be ok with the BotW expert trial which is even worse as it's a concrete wall of a difficulty spike. BotW is about time spent in the game and exploring to get the 100% completion. This Expert Master Sword Trial goes against what the game is about and that's why I don't like it.

I didn't know Galaxy 2 did this.
Galaxy 1 had this with the Melty Molten Galaxy stage. The Daredevil version of this stage gives you only 1 health. Get hit by anything and boom, stage over and you have to try again. It's quite hard actually. That purple comet (one health only) version of the stage is a lot harder than the rest of the game. Took me quite a few tries to get it done.

However the Galaxy 2 Grandmaster Galaxy (Perfect Run version) which is the one health only version of the stage is a real nightmare. Apart from one health only the stage removes all checkpoints as well. Which makes it even harder as it's quite a long stage. The best I've done on it is I got right to the end once and lost to the Hammer Bros at the end. You have to beat 3 of them at the end to beat the stage.
 
Rune Prana from Rune Factory 4. It's great for grinding since the level cap in RF4 is so much higher than past RF titles, and gives you something to do in the post-game. I also like that it includes bosses from past titles. If it's done correctly, "grandmaster" stages seem like a cool concept. It's basically bonus content, and not mandatory, so...
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Australia
If it's done correctly, "grandmaster" stages seem like a cool concept. It's basically bonus content, and not mandatory, so...
If done correctly is the important point here. When they are just a block to completing the game and getting the final game ending then they are terrible. But as end game grinding content as you put it, then they are a good idea.
 

Djinn

and Tonic
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I never actually bother with them. Levels with frustratingly high difficulty does not really equal a fun gaming experience for me. The main issue I deal with is just knowing the game so well that I breeze through it. The answer to this for me is not to make it ten times harder to kill things and everything that hits me is insta-death, it's just changing things around so that the map is different and things are not in the same place so I have to explore again like it is the first time.
 

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