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What is "canon"?

Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Location
Aussieland
If I understood what Alter said and nintendo said the mangas weren't canion, I'd like to know more about it, because I think then that would settle for me the manga discussion.

I say: if it's got Nintendo's official seal of approval, it should be canon.
The way each piece of the puzzle fits into the big picture is up to you.

(Oh, and any game with the suffixes "-Party", "-Kart", or "-and Sonic at the Olympic Games" should be considered non-canon per default.)
But, doesn't those two paragraphs oppose each other, hahah! XD
 

DvSag

The Void in the Triforce
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Location
New Jersey
Haha. Yea, well, every rule has exceptions.

And here's a link to some of the Zelda mangas.
http://www.zelda-infinite.com/files/manga/
I personally never bothered to read them, but from what I gather they're at least halfway decent, and they don't contradict much from the Zelda games, though they are pretty presumptuous at times.
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
The OOT manga kinda adds facts that never made sense for me in games. Why did Volvalgia need to be Link's pet? Zelda never showed her true power in the Spirit Temple. Who are these people that follow Link into the dungeons? Shadow Link attacks in Kakarico?

Now for the MM Manga. When did the bosses leave their dungeons? (Both Goht and Odolwa fight outside the dungeons.)

And the rest is discussed here.
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Manga.php

The Mangas just takes to many liberties of changing events and how they worked it's just to silly for me. The only manga that still makes sense to me has to be the LA manga, it's probably the most logical thing that would have happened in LA had Link had a personality.

My definition of canon is the thing that the creator will outright say is canon. They are the ones who decide how to link the games together in different ways and in truth fans usually fill up holes in canon using the most logical of explainations.

In truth the big output of canon comes from the creators input and the final touches have to be done by the fans in order to make things seem perfect. And unless the creator says so, anything that is not a game doesn't exist in the mix as anything but a what if story. (Which is why I intend to pay Nintendo good cash to make my cartoons canon. :wink: )
 

DvSag

The Void in the Triforce
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Location
New Jersey
Well, on the topic of the creators marking games as canon, then the only games that would be considered officially canon would be:

FSA, ALttP, OoT, MM, WW, PH, and TP

These are the only titles that make direct connections to other Zelda titles; every other game is fan-suggested to be canon, I believe.
(I actually don't know how exhaustive my list is... This is just to my personal knowledge.)
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
Well, on the topic of the creators marking games as canon, then the only games that would be considered officially canon would be:

FSA, ALttP, OoT, MM, WW, PH, and TP

These are the only titles that make direct connections to other Zelda titles; every other game is fan-suggested to be canon, I believe.
(I actually don't know how exhaustive my list is... This is just to my personal knowledge.)

Actually the creators have proven that the original titles are in fact Canon. Miyamoto once stated that the original Zeldas take place after OOT which would mean that they are in fact real. Plus they are the ones who had made the games.

Plus FSA links to both FS and MC, meaning that the games are canon as ever. Believe it or not, all the games link to each other in some way.

LA.... it can be argued since Link appears to know princess Zelda but it's place in the timeline and the fact that it's a dream makes it iffy.

OOX seems to Link to other zelda titles by just having Ganon being dead from some other title.
 

DvSag

The Void in the Triforce
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Location
New Jersey
Ok, so I can accept MC, FS, and TLoZ and AoL, but LA is too indirect as of now. Even Miyamoto claimed it could be put anywhere on the timeline. To me, that's as good as saying it doesn't even have to exist.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
Hyrule and Azeroth
^I would disagree on that. It's definitely canon and should be on the timeline. The problem is that every single game with Ganon can be a prequel to it.

Anything that is acknowledged by the creators/developers is canon, in my opinion. Or was worked on by the creators. If I remember correctly Miyamoto was the producer of the Oracle games. So those are canon. Really the only games I think wouldn't be canon would be TRR and possibly BS LoZ and AST/KNS. I hope I answered your question...
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
^I would disagree on that. It's definitely canon and should be on the timeline. The problem is that every single game with Ganon can be a prequel to it.

That could be the reason that Miyamoto said that LA could be anywhere after OOT.
However I think the only games that could possibly appear before LA are the games which have Agahnim (or his look a like) and Ganon with the trident. Of course the only candidates for this are OOX and ToG (Alttp.)
 
Joined
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Hyrule and Azeroth
I don't want to start an LA debate here but I've had people say that no quote shows that enemies are important to the LA placement then say that Agahnim is canon evidence. What about Agahnim is more important than another story figure from OoX and a boss from LA such as, say, Blaino or Facade?
 

DvSag

The Void in the Triforce
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Location
New Jersey
Well now, how about Link's Crossbow Training? It could be considered canon. I've always figured it to be Link trying out a new weapon he acquired after TP.
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
Well now, how about Link's Crossbow Training? It could be considered canon. I've always figured it to be Link trying out a new weapon he acquired after TP.

Yea, it's basically just Link trying out his newest weapons. So I'd guess it's canon.

Dunno about things such as tingle's rose colored rupeeland as canon.
 

DCMN

Hero of Internet
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Location
London
That made me lol.
And dont forget any games with the prefix "Paper", or anything that has to do with Mario constantly playing asinine sports with his enemies.
I'd consider the Paper Mario games to be canon, but with the Mario series, they'res no way you can make a timeline of sorts.
 

Alter

www.zeldainmypocket.com
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
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Point blank, On Your Six.
lol have any of you even read the LA insturuction booklet? It appears to be quite obvious that it takes place after ALttP or AoL. (whichever was released before LA).

Yes, TRR should be considered as canon. I own the game, and I must say that 1) It fits the story, and 2) it adds a whole lot to the series.

LCT doesn't even matter, IMHO.
 

DvSag

The Void in the Triforce
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Location
New Jersey
I'd consider the Paper Mario games to be canon, but with the Mario series, they'res no way you can make a timeline of sorts.
Right. I think the Paper Mario games have come far enough to be their own canon. Almost as if we were to consider Paper Mario as his own person.

And sure, Alter, LCT doesn't really matter. It doesn't add any more to the timeline as a whole, but it does add new elements to the TP story. Like it almost could have been a sequel, in its own respect, but it wasn't nearly long enough (and nor did it have any kind of story.)

And no, I've never read the LA booklet. I have never even played the game. But that's not what we're debating. Ok, Link's actions at the beginning and end of LA have some bearing on Link's story, but would you consider the bulk of the story, the actual game which just so happens to be a dream, part of the story? Did it affect the timeline, did it affect (that) Link's life? Did it affect anyone other than Link?
 

ChargewithSword

Zelda Dungeon's Critic
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
I don't want to say.
Miyamoto had stated clearly "LA could take place anywhere after OOT." I have finally figured out why he said that. He said because that booklet is very very vague. It does not state the exact events for Alttp or any other Zelda for that matter it just says that he had defeated Ganon and saved Hyrule (that is every Zelda game with Ganon.) Link thought Marin was Zelda so he had to have met her (almost every title that is not sequel.) In truth he had no intention of making LA a sequal to a certain game when he made it.
 

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