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"What If?"

Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Location
Private Oasis
I always thought that Ocarina of time had a threeway split. However, my thinking is not at all like the "official" one. It doesn't make any sense to that OoT's Link's failure would lead to ALttP. In ALttP, Ganon is sealed away, so clearly, Link was successful in defeating him. My timeline still follows the basic adult/child split. In the adult timeline, the sages seal Ganon. Years later, he attempts to break out with the help of Agahnim (events of ALttP). However, my "what if" comes in here. What if ALttP's Link failed? Ganon would break out, and there would be no Link to stop him. The goddesses would flood Hyrule in this case.

I actually don't subscribe to this, though. I'm not a fan of "what if"s. However, my actual train of thought is a theory that has no evidence to back it up, but none to disprove it either. A future Link (could be the one from Wind Waker) was sent back in time while Ganon was breaking out to defeat him, thus preventing the flood. His Uncle could hypothetically be his great (great great ad nauseum) uncle. I know there's nothing really to back it up, but the name of the game IS A Link to the PAST....

You can ignore that whole second paragraph, I'm just trying to say the first, the second is a just a side note.
 

SecretNerd-sshh

Its a secret to everyone
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Location
USA
Lets wait and find out if it is an actual what if, or what the explanation of the split actually states. There is an entire page we need translated/scanned still.
 
E

Estalphos

Guest
i tried to figure out the timeline and came to a similar conclusion, but will have to wait till the official one is released, since this "official" they released has flaws.
 

guapo2003

The incomparable legend
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Location
Temple of Light
The timeline makes no sense whatsoever and besides where does it say Link failed or died in Ocarina of Time anywhere because he didn't?
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
The reason why OoT had the what-if timeline is because both the adult and child ending could not have lead to A Link to the Past. The biggest evidence is the Triforce status. Alttp Ganon has the complete Triforce at his disposal and there was no hero mentioned in the Imprisoning War. But in OoT, he was sealed with only the Triforce of Power while the others went to Link and Zelda.

That's the biggest problems in the timeline. In order to connect OoT and Attlp is that, between these two games, Ganon got the other 2 pieces. The Wind Waker's backstory could not be a what-if scenerio to Alttp as Ganon stills has one piece of the Triforce and the King of Hyrule is still alive. The only possible chance for Ganon to gain the full triforce is the battle at his castle. If Ganondorf defeats Link, he gets the full Triforce, but the seven sages are still active and could seal him away. That was the only way OoT could lead to Attlp without complete contridictions in the games.
 
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ebilly99

Guest
Link failed in the original timeline. The first timeline is one where Link never takes the sword from the pedestal. (Time-travel always creates a new timeline per user) This timeline has link slowly age and try to defeat Ganondarf without the mastersword. Link eventually fails but somehow the sages unite to seal ganon in the golden world. The second split happens after link takes the mastersword, and the final split is when Zelda sends Link back to before it all started.
 

guapo2003

The incomparable legend
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Location
Temple of Light
Link failed in the original timeline. The first timeline is one where Link never takes the sword from the pedestal. (Time-travel always creates a new timeline per user) This timeline has link slowly age and try to defeat Ganondarf without the mastersword. Link eventually fails but somehow the sages unite to seal ganon in the golden world. The second split happens after link takes the mastersword, and the final split is when Zelda sends Link back to before it all started.

I can see where you are coming from with that, but I seriously doubt that's what Nintendo was thinking when they made this game that eventually there will be a 3-way split.

anytime the player dies, he fails.

Tha's understandable, but where does it say Link died so the timeline split for Ocarina of Time? If that's the case, then ANY Zelda game has an alternate timeline for Link whenever he dies. Why does it just have to be Ocarina of Time? That doesn't make any sense. In my opinion, there is NO ZELDA TIMELINE. If this "so-called" timeline is what they came up with, it's only to shut up the fans and the theories, because in video games, there are NO TIMELINES unless they make games specifially for that. When Nintendo created Zelda it was just another game, and they kept making them because they were fun. They NEVER intended for there to be a timeline for this game, but most of the fans were DEMANDING for Nintendo to release one, which there isn't one and why Miyamoto wouldn't give a definite yes or no and would stray away from it. He wanted to leave it up in the air for the fans to come up with ones of their own.
 
Last edited:

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
The reason why OoT had the what-if timeline is because both the adult and child ending could not have lead to A Link to the Past. The biggest evidence is the Triforce status. Alttp Ganon has the complete Triforce at his disposal and there was no hero mentioned in the Imprisoning War. But in OoT, he was sealed with only the Triforce of Power while the others went to Link and Zelda.

That's the biggest problems in the timeline. In order to connect OoT and Attlp is that, between these two games, Ganon got the other 2 pieces. The Wind Waker's backstory could not be a what-if scenerio to Alttp as Ganon stills has one piece of the Triforce and the King of Hyrule is still alive. The only possible chance for Ganon to gain the full triforce is the battle at his castle. If Ganondorf defeats Link, he gets the full Triforce, but the seven sages are still active and could seal him away. That was the only way OoT could lead to Attlp without complete contridictions in the games.
If they did this in order to fix conflicts between OoT and LttP, they didn't do a very good job. The Hylian Knights were defeated during OoT, Link being their last hope. There would be no one left to help the Sages seal the SR after Ganondorf gets the Triforce. Even more of a problem, LttP states that the Sages weren't able to find the MS or a hero to wield it. In OoT, even the "what-if" version, they found both. (rather, the hero found the MS and the Sages.)

It's been made quite clear in recent years that the developers don't want us focusing on such details, so why would they focus on them? Of course, they've also been saying they wouldn't release a timeline, so I don't really have an argument there...
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Location
Halifax
If they did this in order to fix conflicts between OoT and LttP, they didn't do a very good job. The Hylian Knights were defeated during OoT, Link being their last hope. There would be no one left to help the Sages seal the SR after Ganondorf gets the Triforce.

I completely agree. With our current understanding of this new branch of the timeline, the reasoning behind it just feels rashly duct-taped together. There's too much room for conjecture as solutions to incongruencies.

Even more of a problem, LttP states that the Sages weren't able to find the MS or a hero to wield it.

Did it really state that? It's still my favorite game of the series (oh the power of nostalgia), and I confess I haven't played it in years; but I have no memory of the game making that statement. I'm not doubting you though, as it feels right despite my gappy memory.

Reading that statement did provoke an unbidden idea though. 'The sages weren't able to find a hero to wield the MS' sounds almost like saying that they couldn't find a player to 'be Link', who Nintendo perpetually describes as a character that is blank slate designed so as to be 'us'. That could potentially then be further interpolated to mean the 'if' or 'Failed' timeline split is caused by the player failing to play OoT. So if you did play OoT then both the AT and CT follow; but if you didn't play OoT (mind boggling as it is, there are people out there that haven't) then the FT follows.

Now immediately that sounds like a sloppily foolish idea for the same reason that the Link being defeated in Oot creates its own timeline. If it happened in that game, it could happen in every game, and there would be nothing to prevent a failure (or lack of being played) based branching timeline occuring for all the games.

Still though, for me the idea that the 'failure' is merely caused by the player never having played OoT sits well in my head. I don't find it as objectional as Link actually being defeated, and it doesn't require the same kind of mental squirming that the debatable 'abandoned timeline' demands (as it always winds up being just two timelines when I really do the math).

The 'was not played' idea also works from a marketing perspective as well, in that OoT is the flagship Zelda game for Nintendo. Even with the awesomeness of SS and some of the other games, it's OoT that bears all the fantastic press of 'the best game of all time'. OoT was also the first game to be cohesively placeable in the timeline of the games, and is used as a North Star in all other games' placement (eg. SS was constantly referred to as a 'pre-quel' to OoT). I've even heard it dramatically said that 'the gaming world is split into two categories, those who have played Ocarina of Time, and those who haven't'. By creating a timeline based off of a player's lack of involvement, Nintendo would be enticing those that have played other Zelda games, but not OoT, to try out their flagship game (newly released on the 3ds). Additionally, by sequestering all the oldest, most contrary, and most unrecently played games into the 'FT', it allows the other timelines to exist freely for newer players who would otherwise only investigate the older games out of niche curiosity, and thereby feel little loss to the possiblity of Link 'failing', as they've presumably already succeed in preventing that outcome.

On another semi-coincidental but interesting level, ALttP, LA, LoZ, AoL all came out before OoT, and ergo the player couldn't have played it yet, thereby allowing for the Failed Timeline to be the primary one. The Oracle games don't really work with that though, as I think they came out briefly after OoT; but as they're already sequels to ALttP, I find that forgivable.

It's not a perfect solution, and still doesn't really give an adequate reason for the relavant 'timeline creating failure' originating in OoT rather than any other or even all games; but I still find it easier to digest, and the added 'flagship game marketing' adds another (slim) reason to add a timeline split onto OoT rather than one of the less world reknowned games.

That said, tomorrow NoA could announce that the failure was created by Link choking to death on a magically nafarious deku-nut.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
As there isn't a game that outright states the Hero of Time failed, we shouldn't fully accept that the classical games are a "What if?" scenario, because I really don't like the fact that the third branch is created from an alternate possibility that we haven't even seen first hand.

It's called "A Link to the PAST" because it was design as the earliest in the timeline at its release, so I'm not sure that it was meant to have a more significant meaning. I can definitely agree that deeper meanings can be added retroactively.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
It doesn't make any sense to that OoT's Link's failure would lead to ALttP. In ALttP, Ganon is sealed away, so clearly, Link was successful in defeating him.
OracleOfAwesome said:
In the adult timeline, the sages seal Ganon.

You sort of answered your own question right here. After Link's failure, which takes place in an alternate universe, the Sages seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm. (How they're able to do it, I don't know. The reason they did it in OoT in the first place was because of Link succeeding. Just one of the many reasons why this official timeline sucks.)
 

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