What Exactly Are the Shadow Bokoblins?

[PapilioTempesta]

Hello everyone!

I need a bit of mental order about what is what in Twilight Princess (I'm doing a fanfic about it and I want it to be as true to the game as possible).
The game is sometimes unclear about some aspects, and this is one is giving me a headache.

What is a Shadow Bokoblin?

As I understand it, the shadow beasts are twilis that Zant turned into monsters, OK, and I assume the shadow vermin, the dark Keese and the big flying shadow trumpet things (I think they're called Shadow Kargaroks) are common Twilight Realm wild fauna. Shadow beasts are intelligent (sort of) and obey orders, the other three are wild creatures that attack on sight (and can be trained or made some use of, as we saw in Lake Hylia). So far, so good. But what are the Shadow Bokoblins?

Now, according to Wikipedia ¬¬ the Shadow Bokoblins are what common Bublins turn into when they're in Twilight. But that disagrees with the axiom that "When in Twilight, all light dwellers become spirits, even though they don't notice the change of their world and themselves." However evil, Bublins are light dwellers all the same. Another question would be: "where do the goblins fit in all this?" I think the difference between Bublins and Goblins are that bublins are organized and often allied with the powerful evil, whereas goblins are just half-wild pillagers.

So, what happens to goblins when there's twilight? (Actually, what happens to all the other wildlife? Cats and dogs turn into spirits, does that happen to all the other fauna?) Shadow Bokoblins are bublins? Both of them are clearly allied to Zant, does that mean he gives them power not to become useless spirits?

Is there anything official about this? I'd appreciate a lot your comments, ideas and theories about this. Thank you! ^^

 

[HylianHero]

Officially, they are called Twilit Bulblin, and I my best assumption is that the Bulblin are evil and enemies, and don't count as Light dwellers, as the dark side of them allows them to survive in Twilight without being a spirit.

And the Twilit Kargarok, Keese, and Vermin all follow the same principal, being regular Kargaroks, Keese, and rats in the Light World.

Shadow Beasts, however, are Twili transformed by Zant into Demons to serve him. Quite horrific if you ask me.

And I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about goblins. There has never been anything in the Zelda universe called officially a goblin, but Bulblin and Bokoblin are effectively goblins.

 

[Justac00lguy]

The actual Bokoblin/Bulblin/Moblin race is race that doesn't serve good or evil, they may have evil intentions but this quote in my opinion some them up quite well...

[ilquote=King Bulblin]"Enough. I follow the strongest side! …that is all I have ever known."[/ilquote]

I would think if Zant had the power to turn his own tribe into mindless Shadow Beasts he also has the power to manipulate other lifeforms in the world. The reason as to why they didn't turn into lifeless spirits may be due to the mysterious power known as the "Sols". These are sacred to the Twili and since Zant is the rightful leader he would be able to harness the power and use it to his advantage. The Sols have the power to bring light to darkness.

 

[PapilioTempesta]

I think that the reason why some light dwellers remain solid (even though transformed) instead of turning into spirits is because Zant has the power to prevent that: just like Zelda allowed Midna to be herself in the light world, maybe Zant or Ganodorf do the opposite to bublins and other creatures to use them on their benefit (that'd be putting a shadow inside them, instead of light).

About the bublins serving only the strongest side... I don't know, throughout all the peaceful years of Hyrule's history one would assume then the strongest side was the Royal Family, but bublins were never seen as friends to the common people, but like random thieves (a bit like goblins). It is a bit strange that they only serve the strongest side when this side is the evil one...

 

[Justac00lguy]

About the bublins serving only the strongest side... I don't know, throughout all the peaceful years of Hyrule's history one would assume then the strongest side was the Royal Family, but bublins were never seen as friends to the common people, but like random thieves (a bit like goblins). It is a bit strange that they only serve the strongest side when this side is the evil one...

Yeah I also the problem with that in some games however do you think that the Royal Family would allow a connection with a tribe such as this? The already have a history with the tribe in the past and due to their spontaneous morales that could mean little trust between the two. I see the race as a race that isn't necessarily evil Norwood however they evil backgrounds and can be easily influenced.

 

[PapilioTempesta]

And I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about goblins. There has never been anything in the Zelda universe called officially a goblin, but Bulblin and Bokoblin are effectively goblins.

Maybe I'm using a wrong term, but what I ment by goblins are the blue or purple humanoid beings that linger in Hyrule field and attack you when you pass by (I know for sure there are some of them at Kakariko Gorge, by the bridge. I can't remember the location of any others).

Checked it, in Wikipedia they are refered as Bokoblin. As I see it, Bokoblins and Bublins don't look like the same race at all: like I said, Bokoblins don't look organized like bublins.

Bublins can ride boars; work in team (I ride, you shoot); train animals; identify priorities (their main goal in Rallis' Rally is killing the ones in the cart and not Link, their real threat); prevent enemy attacks setting guards; camp; cook; and if they really turn into Twilit Bublins, they can design strategies and show and fast military thinking when seeing their disadvantage in battle and evening the odds calling for help, instead of rushing aimlessly into battle to be slaughtered. I find bublins truly fascinating creatures. ^^

 

[Justac00lguy]

Maybe I'm using a wrong term, but what I ment by goblins are the blue or purple humanoid beings that linger in Hyrule field and attack you when you pass by (I know for sure there are some of them at Kakariko Gorge, by the bridge. I can't remember the location of any others).

Checked it, in Wikipedia they are refered as Bokoblin. As I see it, Bokoblins and Bublins don't look like the same race at all: like I said, Bokoblins don't look organized like bublins.

Bublins can ride boars; work in team (I ride, you shoot); train animals; identify priorities (their main goal in Rallis' Rally is killing the ones in the cart and not Link, their real threat); prevent enemy attacks setting guards; camp; cook; and if they really turn into Twilit Bublins, they can design strategies and show and fast military thinking when seeing their disadvantage in battle and evening the odds calling for help, instead of rushing aimlessly into battle to be slaughtered. I find bublins truly fascinating creatures. ^^

Not everything in the wiki pages are 100% confirmed, a lot of it is interpretation of canon information and what little we have of it. Now I believe that Bokoblins and Bublins are all one of the same kin, however Bulblins are more advanced than their counterparts, kind of like the differentiation between the Bokoblins in Skyward Sword .

 

[HylianHero]

Maybe I'm using a wrong term, but what I ment by goblins are the blue or purple humanoid beings that linger in Hyrule field and attack you when you pass by (I know for sure there are some of them at Kakariko Gorge, by the bridge. I can't remember the location of any others).

Checked it, in Wikipedia they are refered as Bokoblin. As I see it, Bokoblins and Bublins don't look like the same race at all: like I said, Bokoblins don't look organized like bublins.

Bublins can ride boars; work in team (I ride, you shoot); train animals; identify priorities (their main goal in Rallis' Rally is killing the ones in the cart and not Link, their real threat); prevent enemy attacks setting guards; camp; cook; and if they really turn into Twilit Bublins, they can design strategies and show and fast military thinking when seeing their disadvantage in battle and evening the odds calling for help, instead of rushing aimlessly into battle to be slaughtered. I find bublins truly fascinating creatures. ^^

I get you now. I wish Bulblin had been developed more as an independent race that had allied themselves with Zant and Ganondorf, I mean you do get that but not until the end of the game.Though on the subject of bokoblin if you look at group of bokoblin from the distance, you can see them chatting to each other.

[video=youtube;2b-_2Y5xwYA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b-_2Y5xwYA[/video]

Make of that what you will.

 

[PapilioTempesta]

They're so sweet ^^

It is a shame that we don't get to see any more traits of the bublins and the bokoblins, unlike the Zoras and the Gorons. That they're your enemies doesn't mean they're unimportant! i mean, they surely must have some sort of culture of their won, a concrete hierarchy (from what we've seen, the bigger the more immportant...) and a place they call home. Incidentally, we get to see a bit of that in TP, even though it's just a temporary settlement. The fact that the bublin's camp is at the entrance of the desert prison suggests that they were allied with Zant from the beginning (probably his first headquarters were there, by the mirror). As for more permanent houses, my guess is that bublins are a warrior race with no time for architecture, so they borrow/take it from other people. Examples are in the hidden village of the old woman, the Eldin bridge (there's a sort of sheltered room where they usually are, and they are far better climbers than us, so they can find more places to stay), and the castle itself.

And OK, we don't get to know enough about the bokoblins to assume they're less advanced than their cousins. (BTW, at this thread I'm always refering to what we saw in TP, I'm not quite sure of how this things were in other games... I remember the red warriors in SS, but I don't remember any concrete data about them). HylianHero, this scene you showed, it's from the beginning, at the forest, right? If it is so, they prove to be able to talk, lock doors, capture defenseless creatures and leave them unharmed -maybe as a bait? maybe as a sacrifice to the temple monster? Am I the only one to find all this fascinating?

 

[HylianHero]

And OK, we don't get to know enough about the bokoblins to assume they're less advanced than their cousins. (BTW, at this thread I'm always refering to what we saw in TP, I'm not quite sure of how this things were in other games... I remember the red warriors in SS, but I don't remember any concrete data about them). HylianHero, this scene you showed, it's from the beginning, at the forest, right? If it is so, they prove to be able to talk, lock doors, capture defenseless creatures and leave them unharmed -maybe as a bait? maybe as a sacrifice to the temple monster? Am I the only one to find all this fascinating?

Wow, now you've really got me thinking.

I think, as far as the TP Bokoblins go, we've got three things to consider.

One, they could be operating with Zant, Ganondorf, and the Bulibins and are actively helping take over Hyrule by doing nasty things such as locking up possible escape route and kidnapping a child and a monkey (They could have kidnapped the child for the same reason King Bulbin kidnapped Ilia and Colin, this supports them operating under his orders.) They could be acting as a sort of advance party before King Bulbin comes.

Two, they could be acting completely by themselves. They could just have always lived in the forest and this locking up the gates and kidnapping was just Bokoblin doing Bokoblin things, acting with their own motives for their own goals.

Or lastly, they could be just going along with the ride. The rise of shadowy creatures and evil that has permeated Hyrule may have made the Bokoblin stronger and cockier. So they are acting under their own control, but are able to do more because of Zant, Ganondorf, and the Bulbin.

I'm probably looking way too deep into an insignificant detail, but, like I said, you really got me thinking. ^^

 

[PapilioTempesta]

I'm probably looking way too deep into an insignificant detail, but, like I said, you really got me thinking. ^^

I love to look deep into such things, then I feel I'm really discovering those worlds (just riding around isn't really enough;P)

I like your three-option summary. I believe the third option is the more right:

The first is the less likely, because unlike the Bublins we never see the Bokoblins doing any direct task Zant could have given them (such as summoning the shadow beasts, racing after Telma's cart or protectiong the desert Prison). The Bokoblins don't appear that much in the game, only in the countryside and in random beings that shout and attack you at the spot.

The second could work perfectly well, but it'd be too strange that they are not affected whatsoever by the presence of a new, stronger evil. It would be too much of a coincidence that they decide to kidnap children, even more when that forest used to be peaceful, right when the Twili invasion has begun (or is about to begin, timing is a bit imprecise).

That leads me to the third option: while I don't think the Bokoblins made any official contact with Zant's Evil Alliance, they surely were encouraged by their presence, as if they were happy to know some other evil fellows, and became indeed stronger and cockier.


WHAT IF, now I'm thinking deeper about it (Hell, that's addictive! XD), what if the Bublins needed for some reason some children (war trophies? Oh, whatever!), and the Ordon Bokoblins wanted to join them in a way, and offered them a kid as a gift? The Bokoblins kidnapped Talo and the monkey, and brought them where they thought it was safer: beyond the dark cave, across the wildest side of the forest, through two locked gates -one of which they could guard, and next to the Forest Temple where evil was already rising.

After Link rescuing them, the bublins attack the Ordon Spring, and take Ilia and Colin with them. But maybe the ones who kidnapped the rest of the children were the Bokoblins, still eager to contribute... although that isn't right, because Colin shouldn't be with them in kakariko. Unless that Collin was left behind by the Bublins for some reason and found the others when they were abandoned somewhere from Ordon to Kakariko, that would explain why they are all together but Illia is not with them.

Is that looking too deep or what? lol

 

[HylianHero]

WHAT IF, now I'm thinking deeper about it (Hell, that's addictive! XD), what if the Bublins needed for some reason some children (war trophies? Oh, whatever!), and the Ordon Bokoblins wanted to join them in a way, and offered them a kid as a gift? The Bokoblins kidnapped Talo and the monkey, and brought them where they thought it was safer: beyond the dark cave, across the wildest side of the forest, through two locked gates -one of which they could guard, and next to the Forest Temple where evil was already rising.

After Link rescuing them, the bublins attack the Ordon Spring, and take Ilia and Colin with them. But maybe the ones who kidnapped the rest of the children were the Bokoblins, still eager to contribute... although that isn't right, because Colin shouldn't be with them in kakariko. Unless that Collin was left behind by the Bublins for some reason and found the others when they were abandoned somewhere from Ordon to Kakariko, that would explain why they are all together but Illia is not with them.

Is that looking too deep or what? lol

Yeah, the third is the most likely.

I think you are definitely right about the Bulbins kidnapping the children for their own reasons, as a fail to see why Zant or Ganondorf would ever ask for them to randomly kidnap five non-Hylian children. What that reason is, I have no idea. They could want them for war trophies, but I think the thing that fits their trope the best is that they wanted to eat the children...and I know the game went to great lengths to make their race ambiguous in the end, neither good nor evil, merely "fighting for the strongest side", but they are carnivorous, as we can tell from the Bulbo that is roasting over a campfire in their camp, so wanting to devour the children sticks out as a very likely motive.

However, I do believe that it was King Bulbin and the Bulbin that kidnapped all the children, because after you rid the area around Link's house of several Bulbin, a chipmunk appears and thanks you for getting rid of those "bad guys", referring to the Bulbin, and then says that they kidnapped the rest of the village children, also referring to the Bulbin.

Another thing I have to question about the Bulbin is the fact that they explode when killed. In the past, their has been a very clear line drawn between evil and demonic enemies and enemies of a non-evil and uncontaminated race (namely the Gerudo in OoT and MM). Evil enemies explode when defeated, a sign that I take to mean that the Bulbin have made some pact with Zant and Ganondorf that compromises their "lightness" and makes them "shadow" beings, despite having started out as non-demonic entities. This pact and compromise of their "lightness" is most likely why they can exist in the Twilight Realm. I know you said that in the OP, but it just now hit me

 

[PapilioTempesta]

Mmm... Yes, bokoblin or bublin, there is no realon why the'd need the children, so you're guess is perfectly valid: lunch it is.

And it's true, the ones attacking the village where King bublin's henchmen all the time (I forgot about the squirrel). So maybe there is no relation between the first kidnap (bokoblin's) and the second.

On the other hand, I never paid much attention to which creatures explode when killed and which not, I just thought all of them did it to avoid having corpses or blood everywhere. Aaah, I can't think now of any character dying (either because Link killed it of because of any other Hyrule's natural causes -being chopped, stabbed, bitten or garroted to death), but I'm pretty sure no corpse has ever been shown in the game. the closest thing I recall is Gerat Deku Tree in OoT, and he became stone after dying, I think...

But even if exploding is relevant or not, I still believe the bublins where allied to Zant, and he helped them into Twilight (like many other evil/wild creatures from Hyrule), aaaand I'm not sure about the Bokoblins, maybe they are allied as well (but we can't differentiate the two species in their shady form), or they are not, and when there's Twilight they are just hiding somewhere. Actually, there are far less bokoblins than bublins, so this second option works OK. And then, they are not really collaborating with Zant's plans, but just being a nuisance to Link, which is pretty much the same.

 

[HylianHero]

And it's true, the ones attacking the village where King bublin's henchmen all the time (I forgot about the squirrel).

Yeah, I never would have remembered the squirrel either, but I am right at that point in a file of TP I'm playing

 

[Wolf Sage]

I've always considered all Blins to be of the same ilk—just different sub-species/types of one another...