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Majora's Mask What Does 'alternative Dimension' Mean to YOU in Majora's Mask?

Joined
Feb 23, 2011
There's not much that I'd like to add. However, I define the term "alternate dimension" - in the case of Termina - as a plain of existence that runs parallel to Hyrule. The two never meet directly, but are instead connected via a portal that intersects at a certain point between the two, much like the illustration provided in this thread. My analysis can only be taken as speculation, though, seeing as Nintendo didn't bother going into the detail on this topic. And to be honest, doing so would have likely caused mass confusion among fans...

What's odd is Link's place in Termina. :/
 

Terminus

If I was a wizard this wouldn't be happening to me
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To understand what I meant bye "ripples", you have to understand basic properties of space-time. Wherever an object of great mass is present, it distorts space-time. Also, to clarify what I said on page 1, parallel universes could be separated by as little as a millimeter to a mile in some n-direction. At a small enough distance, spacial perturbations caused by mass could concievably create enough of a ripple to engage a "Bermuda Triforce" (thanks to RegalBryant for that term).
 

Ronin

There you are! You monsters!
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How many of you knew that Termina is actually a Spanish word, which, when translated into English, means "ends"?

With that in mind, it's my opinion that Termina is an alternate dimension on the opposite ends of a spectrum of various layers. Given that Link fell through that portal in order to reach Termina, there would have to be a mass of space between Hyrule's realm and Termina's domain. I suppose it would make the Legend of Zelda's world a multiverse of sorts, except that each layer is stacked upon the other, just like the image from before shows:

bspurka said:
alternatedimensions.jpg

As bspurka mentioned both Hyrule and Termina are perpendicular with each other. This suggests that the latter is indeed a parallel/alternate universe because of the rampant amount of identical characters we see upon venturing through Clock Town, Southern Swamp, Great Bay Coast, and more. But there are also quite a bit more figures than the doppelgangers—Kafei, Mayor Dotour, the Goron Elder, the Deku King, Pamela and her father, Igos du Ikana, Tingle!, and others. So Termina isn't exactly a mirror world of OoT's Hyrule since there are quite a few more individuals. Or they simply didn't show up in the OoT segment of Link's journey, but do reside in that Hyrule somewhere out of the game.
 

felipe970421

Mardek Innanu El-Enkidu
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All right, without further discussing the implications of Einstein's model of the universe in a videogame, the idea that Termina is anything but an alternate dimension is fairly wrong to me, there are many holes in it that are easily explained by the alternate dimension model, so my conclusion (and also the official explanation) is that it is parallel to Hyrule
 

Beauts

Rock and roll will never die
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Jun 15, 2012
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Yeah I didn't really want a lecture in physics.... but thanks guys :)

Anyway, as I said, I know what parallel universe means silly peeps. But if we're all gonna go with the literal definition that's fine...
 
E

Errorman

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When I look at this "alternate dimension" i see it as a reflection. For example you look at the surface of water or a mirror and you you can obviously tell that on that side of the mirror right and left are switched around. So when you raise you right arm your reflection is raising its "right" arm. So termina is just the "reflection" of hyrule and the barrier is the hole in the tree because from the top you look down and from the bottom you look up aka "down." I hope this doesn't confuse a lot of people.
 
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It is possible that Termina is an underground world within the earth where people go to hide.

Think about it, Link fell down a hole.

-Fairies only exist because of the Deku Tree, yet he doesn't exist in Termina. So where do Tatl and Tael come from? What are the chances that they weren't paired with Kokiris, and then find the elusive portal to Termina as Skull Kid did?

-The reason why the people look so familiar to their counterparts in Hyrule is possible to do their relatives escaping underground and establishing their own nations. This also explains why there are no Hyrulian counterpart to Kafei, Pamela and her Father, Tingle, and the Mayor and his wife. An example of this would be Romani, who has a sister and no father. While in Hyrule, Malon has no sister nor mother, but has a father. Cremia never states she has no mother, even though she never appears; MM Talon is also not related to her or Romania, oddly enough. Interestingly, Cremia has a Triforce on her person. From this, we can gather that OOT Talon is Cremia and Romania's father, and Romania's unknown mother is Malon's mother.

-Ikana can possibly be directly beneath Hyrule Field, explaining how countless stalchildren appear out of the ground at night. Similarly, Sharp and Flat could also reside in both the OOT Graveyard and MM caves.

Koume and Kotake do not die in the child timeline, they die seven years in the future, in the adult timeline. To avoid persecution by the Hyrulian King, they could have escaped and changed their lifestyles.

-Ever heard of the hollow earth theory? Some deviations state the likelihood of a second planet or universe within the earth itself. This explains how the eerie moon in Termina is not seen in Hyrule, or how the impact of it affect the sequence of events in Ocarina of Time (Adult timeline) or Twilight Princess; though one can argue that both take place in the event that Link succeeds in his quest rather than fails, which occurs in another timeline. Moreover, the changing of time in Termina does not seem to affect Hyrule, from what we know; in fact, the Song of Time does not have the same affect in both realms. On top of that, there is the existence of aliens in MM but not in OOT (further proofing that a separate universe exists within the earth).

-Also, there are no counterparts to the three goddesses, or the Triforce. There are also no counterparts to the Fierce Deity or Majora (although one can say 'Link' and 'Ganondorf', but if both were to be the counterparts, then surely the Triforce would exist, or at least a variation, which in turn would demand a counterpart to Zelda, which there is none).

-There has been much controversy whether the Interlopers in Twilight Princess are Terminians. It is possible that Termina is the place where Interlopers escaped to; or the supposed Twilight Realm, which explains how the Happy Mask Salesman acquired the mask in the first place.

-Furthermore, the technology of Termina is more advanced of that of Hyrule in OOT or TP, even though TP is supposed to take place further in time than MM. Things like the clock tower, fireworks and pictograph come to mind. A bit far off for a 'parallel word', huh?

Tell me what you think.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
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Liverpool, England
It is possible that Termina is an underground world within the earth where people go to hide.

Think about it, Link fell down a hole.

If Termina was *underneath* Hyrule, then how could it possibly have a sky, a day-and-night cyce and its own Moon? If it was *underneath* Hyrule it would be nothing more than a huge cave, which it clearly isn't.

-Fairies only exist because of the Deku Tree, yet he doesn't exist in Termina. So where do Tatl and Tael come from? What are the chances that they weren't paired with Kokiris, and then find the elusive portal to Termina as Skull Kid did?

Nowhere does it ever say that fairies exist because of the Great Deku Tree. They exist in every single Zelda game, the vast majority of which do not feature a Great Deku Tree.

-The reason why the people look so familiar to their counterparts in Hyrule is possible to do their relatives escaping underground and establishing their own nations. This also explains why there are no Hyrulian counterpart to Kafei, Pamela and her Father, Tingle, and the Mayor and his wife. An example of this would be Romani, who has a sister and no father. While in Hyrule, Malon has no sister nor mother, but has a father. Cremia never states she has no mother, even though she never appears; MM Talon is also not related to her or Romania, oddly enough. Interestingly, Cremia has a Triforce on her person. From this, we can gather that OOT Talon is Cremia and Romania's father, and Romania's unknown mother is Malon's mother.

OK, this makes no sense either. Let's take Anju as our example. You're saying Anju resembles the Cucco Lady in OOT because they had a shared ancestor who left Hyrule and went to Termina. Let's look at it logically. Anju's grandmother is present in Termina. She is the counterpart of the woman who runs the potion shop in Kakariko Village. So at the time Anju's grandmother exists in Termina, another woman who looks, sounds and acts exactly like her lives in Kakariko Village but has no connection to the Cucco Lady. The idea of relatives escaping to Termina seems very, very doubtful.
By this logic, the Terminian Talon who runs the Milk Bar would have to be the twin brother of OOT's Talon, since the only reason the counterparts look alike is because they are related somehow. Funny then that Cremia and Romani never mention their Uncle, especially when they do so much business with him. Funny also how OOT's Talon and Malon never mention this guy either. Again, this whole paragraph seems doubtful as their are too many questions raised and virtually none answered.

Koume and Kotake do not die in the child timeline, they die seven years in the future, in the adult timeline. To avoid persecution by the Hyrulian King, they could have escaped and changed their lifestyles.

Koume and Kotake are described as Ganondorf's surrogate mothers. What exactly that means is anyone's guess but the one thing we can agree upon is that they have an incredibly strong bond with Ganondorf. Considering they essentially desecrated the Gerudo's sacred temple in his service, the idea that they would just leave him when the King was trying to bring him to justice does not fit their character at all. The Witches would almost certainly have stayed to fight alongside him and probably would have been willing to die if it helped advance Ganondorf's position. In MM, the Witches are too different from their OOT counterparts for it to be likely that they are literally the exact same characters.

-Ever heard of the hollow earth theory? Some deviations state the likelihood of a second planet or universe within the earth itself. This explains how the eerie moon in Termina is not seen in Hyrule, or how the impact of it affect the sequence of events in Ocarina of Time (Adult timeline) or Twilight Princess; though one can argue that both take place in the event that Link succeeds in his quest rather than fails, which occurs in another timeline. Moreover, the changing of time in Termina does not seem to affect Hyrule, from what we know; in fact, the Song of Time does not have the same affect in both realms. On top of that, there is the existence of aliens in MM but not in OOT (further proofing that a separate universe exists within the earth).

The Hollow Earth Theory has been conclusively proven totally, 100% wrong. It was dismissed completely about three hundred years ago because it is known to be incorrect. It simply makes no sense and defies all rational logic.
As for the changing of time not affecting Hyrule, how do we know? All that happens is time is rewound 3 days and the events play out exactly the same way without Link's intervention. Hyrule could well be rewinding as well but since everything would happen the exact same way after each rewind, no one would notice and it wouldn't cause any issues.
As for the different effects of the Song of Time, this is just speculation but, perhaps the users *intent* changes how the Ocarina works. In OOT, Link only ever used it to open the Door of Time and move those blocks. But when he uses it in MM, he does so knowing that he must have "more time". He plays the tune and hey presto! He has more time! Just throwing that out there.
And how you figure aliens proves that there is a world *within* Hyrule, well, I'd love to hear exactly how you came to that conclusion.

-Also, there are no counterparts to the three goddesses, or the Triforce. There are also no counterparts to the Fierce Deity or Majora (although one can say 'Link' and 'Ganondorf', but if both were to be the counterparts, then surely the Triforce would exist, or at least a variation, which in turn would demand a counterpart to Zelda, which there is none).

I can't argue on this point but it is worth mentioning that Stone Tower does have images of the Triforce all over the place. There's a very interesting theory related to it called the Stone Tower of Babel theory. It's a fascinating read so I recommend you look it up.

-There has been much controversy whether the Interlopers in Twilight Princess are Terminians. It is possible that Termina is the place where Interlopers escaped to; or the supposed Twilight Realm, which explains how the Happy Mask Salesman acquired the mask in the first place.

So Termina *is* the Twilight Realm? And that explains how the Mask Salesman got Majora's Mask in the first place? I take it you're basing this off the Fused Shadows resembling Majora's Mask. Fair enough, but seriously, do you remember the Twilight Realm? Remember how dark it was, how forboding it was, how it seemed to be made of various floating rocks? Remember how the inhabitants were their own race of weird looking... Things? The Twilight Realm and Termina are nothing alike and to conclude that they could be the same place based off of almost nothing is a bit farfetched.

-Furthermore, the technology of Termina is more advanced of that of Hyrule in OOT or TP, even though TP is supposed to take place further in time than MM. Things like the clock tower, fireworks and pictograph come to mind. A bit far off for a 'parallel word', huh?

Just because the technology is somewhat more advanced doesn't mean Termina can't be a parallel world. The technology has nothing to do with it.

Tell me what you think.

Personally, I think this sounds more ridiculous than the idea that Termina is just another country (and boy, *that* idea is very ridiculous). Your reasons for thinging this seem weak and ill thought out and don't seem to be based on reliable facts. I would say this theory is very unlikely.

Also, I want to just say sorry if my tone seems like I am mocking this theory or being overly aggresive in my disagreement with it, that isn't my intent at all. Just pointing out why I think this is unlikely.
 
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If Termina was *underneath* Hyrule, then how could it possibly have a sky, a day-and-night cyce and its own Moon? If it was *underneath* Hyrule it would be nothing more than a huge cave, which it clearly isn't.

-That is exactly what the Hollow Earth theory is. It denotes a possible existence of a separate universe within the earth (not saying that I believe it, though), including a sun and moon.

Nowhere does it ever say that fairies exist because of the Great Deku Tree. They exist in every single Zelda game, the vast majority of which do not feature a Great Deku Tree.

-I will give you credit in saying that fairies exist without the Deku Tree. But the variation that exists in OOT and MM seem to derive from the Deku Tree, which is said to give birth to them seasonally.

OK, this makes no sense either. Let's take Anju as our example. You're saying Anju resembles the Cucco Lady in OOT because they had a shared ancestor who left Hyrule and went to Termina. Let's look at it logically. Anju's grandmother is present in Termina. She is the counterpart of the woman who runs the potion shop in Kakariko Village. So at the time Anju's grandmother exists in Termina, another woman who looks, sounds and acts exactly like her lives in Kakariko Village but has no connection to the Cucco Lady. The idea of relatives escaping to Termina seems very, very doubtful.
By this logic, the Terminian Talon who runs the Milk Bar would have to be the twin brother of OOT's Talon, since the only reason the counterparts look alike is because they are related somehow. Funny then that Cremia and Romani never mention their Uncle, especially when they do so much business with him. Funny also how OOT's Talon and Malon never mention this guy either. Again, this whole paragraph seems doubtful as their are too many questions raised and virtually none answered.

-I say it is possible. If my theory were true, and people did migrate to Termina as an escape, this does not directly support the idea of some large exodus. People could have came at their own time. Meaning it is possible that Anju's ancestors came at a different time than say Malon's (which would have been more recent). But as you have said, there are too many unanswered questions and not enough evidence.

Koume and Kotake are described as Ganondorf's surrogate mothers. What exactly that means is anyone's guess but the one thing we can agree upon is that they have an incredibly strong bond with Ganondorf. Considering they essentially desecrated the Gerudo's sacred temple in his service, the idea that they would just leave him when the King was trying to bring him to justice does not fit their character at all. The Witches would almost certainly have stayed to fight alongside him and probably would have been willing to die if it helped advance Ganondorf's position. In MM, the Witches are too different from their OOT counterparts for it to be likely that they are literally the exact same characters.

-I won't contradict that, there is much proof to your statement; such as their attempt to resurrect Ganondorf in the Oracle games.

The Hollow Earth Theory has been conclusively proven totally, 100% wrong. It was dismissed completely about three hundred years ago because it is known to be incorrect. It simply makes no sense and defies all rational logic.
As for the changing of time not affecting Hyrule, how do we know? All that happens is time is rewound 3 days and the events play out exactly the same way without Link's intervention. Hyrule could well be rewinding as well but since everything would happen the exact same way after each rewind, no one would notice and it wouldn't cause any issues.
As for the different effects of the Song of Time, this is just speculation but, perhaps the users *intent* changes how the Ocarina works. In OOT, Link only ever used it to open the Door of Time and move those blocks. But when he uses it in MM, he does so knowing that he must have "more time". He plays the tune and hey presto! He has more time! Just throwing that out there.
And how you figure aliens proves that there is a world *within* Hyrule, well, I'd love to hear exactly how you came to that conclusion.

-We're talking about a game involving magic. Magic. Nobody said it had to make sense. Heck, the existence of parallel dimensions aren't even fully acknowledged. Hence, both theories are valid. I agree with the song of time, mainly because Tatl asked for the goddess of time's help. But as for the aliens, the Hollow Earth Theory means that there could be a separate universe within the earth. Meaning there could be other planets within this Terminian universe, which could house foreign life not found in Hyrule.

I can't argue on this point but it is worth mentioning that Stone Tower does have images of the Triforce all over the place. There's a very interesting theory related to it called the Stone Tower of Babel theory. It's a fascinating read so I recommend you look it up.

-Interesting, I will thanks.

So Termina *is* the Twilight Realm? And that explains how the Mask Salesman got Majora's Mask in the first place? I take it you're basing this off the Fused Shadows resembling Majora's Mask. Fair enough, but seriously, do you remember the Twilight Realm? Remember how dark it was, how forboding it was, how it seemed to be made of various floating rocks? Remember how the inhabitants were their own race of weird looking... Things? The Twilight Realm and Termina are nothing alike and to conclude that they could be the same place based off of almost nothing is a bit farfetched.

-I saw many problems beforehand stating that Termina could be the Twilight Realm. So I take that back. But it is possible that it could be a dimension within Termina. Or Hyrule. But I do see that Termina could have been the place where Interlopers (the ones that did not evolve into the Twili) escaped to. TP does not state which race became the Interlopers. It could have been any; or a mix of all. The remaining mix of fugitive species could have settled in Termina, giving the diversity of life found there.

Just because the technology is somewhat more advanced doesn't mean Termina can't be a parallel world. The technology has nothing to do with it.

-I will not disproof that. It makes sense.

Personally, I think this sounds more ridiculous than the idea that Termina is just another country (and boy, *that* idea is very ridiculous). Your reasons for thinging this seem weak and ill thought out and don't seem to be based on reliable facts. I would say this theory is very unlikely.

Also, I want to just say sorry if my tone seems like I am mocking this theory or being overly aggresive in my disagreement with it, that isn't my intent at all. Just pointing out why I think this is unlikely.

-No problem. This wasn't much of a theory, anyway. I just popped into my head as I was reading other's theories. If I find it valid, I will claim it, or stick with Nintendo's word. Nevertheless there do seem to be many gaping holes in it's logic.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
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Location
Liverpool, England
-I will give you credit in saying that fairies exist without the Deku Tree. But the variation that exists in OOT and MM seem to derive from the Deku Tree, which is said to give birth to them seasonally.

The same fairies that exist in OOT and MM are also seen in Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass, all games with no Deku Tree (although some people theorise that TP's Forest Temple is the remains of the Deku Tree).


I think I understand a bit more now you've elaborated further. Would it be fair to say then, that you do think Termina is a 'parallel dimension', 'alternate universe' or whatever way you want to phrase it, but that instead of existing outside or alongside Hyrule, as shown in some of this thread's diagrams, this alternate world is within Hyrule? It's akin to the picture on the right, not the picture on the left?

Termina Map.jpg

I was taking it literally earlier, that underneath the surface of Hyrule, underground, there was Termina, when it's more like Hyrule forms the universal boundary for Termina. Or am I completely wrong about that?

If so, then this is a really interesting theory. Although I still have my doubts on some of the details (notably the counterparts explanation), it doesn't seem to contradict any of the immutable facts about Termina being an alternate dimension and would help explain why the portal is a long drop.
 
Joined
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Tyerra
I think I understand a bit more now you've elaborated further. Would it be fair to say then, that you do think Termina is a 'parallel dimension', 'alternate universe' or whatever way you want to phrase it, but that instead of existing outside or alongside Hyrule, as shown in some of this thread's diagrams, this alternate world is within Hyrule? It's akin to the picture on the right, not the picture on the left?

-Couldn't have said it better myself.

View attachment 28019

I was taking it literally earlier, that underneath the surface of Hyrule, underground, there was Termina, when it's more like Hyrule forms the universal boundary for Termina. Or am I completely wrong about that?

-No, you're on the dot.

If so, then this is a really interesting theory. Although I still have my doubts on some of the details (notably the counterparts explanation), it doesn't seem to contradict any of the immutable facts about Termina being an alternate dimension and would help explain why the portal is a long drop.

-Yes, but I just don't like the term 'parallel dimension'. I don't know why; it just seems wrong. To me it seems more of a branch off of Hyrule than an alternative world.
 
Last edited:

felipe970421

Mardek Innanu El-Enkidu
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Colombia
-I will give you credit in saying that fairies exist without the Deku Tree. But the variation that exists in OOT and MM seem to derive from the Deku Tree, which is said to give birth to them seasonally.

Where is this stated?

-I say it is possible. If my theory were true, and people did migrate to Termina as an escape, this does not directly support the idea of some large exodus. People could have came at their own time. Meaning it is possible that Anju's ancestors came at a different time than say Malon's (which would have been more recent). But as you have said, there are too many unanswered questions and not enough evidence.

I see some speculation here, I don't think assuming a migration from Hyrule to Termina is a valid way of making a theory

-We're talking about a game involving magic. Magic. Nobody said it had to make sense. Heck, the existence of parallel dimensions aren't even fully acknowledged. Hence, both theories are valid. I agree with the song of time, mainly because Tatl asked for the goddess of time's help. But as for the aliens, the Hollow Earth Theory means that there could be a separate universe within the earth. Meaning there could be other planets within this Terminian universe, which could house foreign life not found in Hyrule.

A universe may involve magic, but that's not an excuse to contradict it's own rules, if the song of time has a small effect in OoT, and alters the freaking flow of time in MM, I think it can be assumed that there is something affecting the nature of the song, in this case, the goddess of time, also, the existence of parallel dimensions is acknowledged in the Zelda Universe, see the Twilight realm, the sacred realm, the silent realm , Holodrum and Labrynna (argueably), and Hyrule Histora acknowledges Termina as a parallel dimension, however given the context of the thread, let's ignore that last bit about HH, and I still don't see how the existence of Them supports the hollow earth theory rather than the parallel dimension theory

-I saw many problems beforehand stating that Termina could be the Twilight Realm. So I take that back. But it is possible that it could be a dimension within Termina. Or Hyrule. But I do see that Termina could have been the place where Interlopers (the ones that did not evolve into the Twili) escaped to. TP does not state which race became the Interlopers. It could have been any; or a mix of all. The remaining mix of fugitive species could have settled in Termina, giving the diversity of life found there.

Hmm, that makes an interesting point

-No problem. This wasn't much of a theory, anyway. I just popped into my head as I was reading other's theories. If I find it valid, I will claim it, or stick with Nintendo's word. Nevertheless there do seem to be many gaping holes in it's logic.

Oh well, this is after all a place to discuss theories, and by the way welcome to ZD

Sorry if my English is not-so-great, I'm not a native
 
Joined
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Where is this stated?

-The manga. It's relativity with the game is questionable, however, so I'm not sure it counts.


A universe may involve magic, but that's not an excuse to contradict it's own rules, if the song of time has a small effect in OoT, and alters the freaking flow of time in MM, I think it can be assumed that there is something affecting the nature of the song, in this case, the goddess of time,

I agree with the song of time, mainly because Tatl asked for the goddess of time's help.

also, the existence of parallel dimensions is acknowledged in the Zelda Universe, see the Twilight realm, the sacred realm, the silent realm , Holodrum and Labrynna (argueably), and Hyrule Histora acknowledges Termina as a parallel dimension, however given the context of the thread, let's ignore that last bit about HH, and I still don't see how the existence of Them supports the hollow earth theory rather than the parallel dimension theory

-That doesn't necessarily imply that Termina has to be a parallel dimension.

Oh well, this is after all a place to discuss theories, and by the way welcome to ZD

Sorry if my English is not-so-great, I'm not a native

-Thank you, and no problem; it's surprisingly amazing for a foreigner. It definitely beats my mom's..and she's been here for 20 years :p
 

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