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What do you wish Zelda did more of?

Hyrulian Hero

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I want the Zelda franchise to return to most realistic graphics like Twilight Princess
Not a popular opinion but a totally legitimate one. You can be sure they'll go back to an eventually and it'll probably be awesome. As it stands now, what they're doing with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom is fine with me. Eventually, we'll all get tired of this art style and want something else and at that point, a realistic depiction might be in order.
 
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So much wrong indeed.

Miyamoto on OoT 1999:

On the importance of story and continuity between games:

In none of those quotes does Miyamoto deny the existence of a timeline. In the first quote, he says that creating a good game takes priority over ensuring that there's no plot holes; there being plot holes or ''little breaks'' doesn't nullify the existence of a canon. In the second one, he considers the player being left with a satisfying aftertaste then continuity, but just because the chronology isn't a top priority doesn't mean it does not exist. In the third one, he outright says that huge breaks in canon would make players feel betrayed and that he doesn't want that, meaning he cares about canon to some extent. Miyamoto is onlyone person who works on the series, too.

"There isn’t a true frame or reference or time line possible for the series.”

The repeated confirmation of the existence of a timeline from major NoJ developers that made the games>some rando NoA employee who replies to fan letters.

It's explicit that some games were direct sequels, that is not a timeline nor was it meant to be.

If you make a sequel to GAME 1 (GAME 2) that is a sequel to it, and then make GAME 3 which takes place before GAME 1(and hence, also before GAME 2), and then make GAME 4 a sequel to GAME 3, and then make GAME 5 as a prequel to GAME 3, you get:

GAME 5>GAME 3>GAME 4>GAME 1>GAME 2

How is this not a chronology?

After OoT, it seems they put more thought into an overarching timeline as the developers began discussing the split, but if you can see beyond your nose, even up through Twilight Princess, the developers were talking about a two timeline split (read: no downfall) in OoT. This is indicative of a lack of a set timeline. Here's the clincher, from Aonuma:

t's possible the DT solution wasn;t thought up yet by the developers, or that they were only talking about the two endings we see ingame.

"With this game, {BotW} we saw just how many players were playing in their own way and had those reactions I just mentioned. We realized that people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmental imagery we were providing. If we defined a restricted timeline, then there would be a definitive story, and it would eliminate the room for imagination, which wouldn't be as fun."

Yeah, a defined timeline FOR BotW, not the other games. Hence why they've been hush about BotW's placement in contrast to the other titles. BotW is obviously long after Zelda 2 on the DT anyway

"Stories of Ganon were passed down from generation to generation in the form of legends and fairy tales."

The Triforce is called a legend/myth in the manual of ALttP, and yet we see it exists in-universe with our own eyes at the end.
 

Hyrulian Hero

Zelda Informer Codger
Joined
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Location
SoDak
In none of those quotes does Miyamoto deny the existence of a timeline. In the first quote, he says that creating a good game takes priority over ensuring that there's no plot holes; there being plot holes or ''little breaks'' doesn't nullify the existence of a canon. In the second one, he considers the player being left with a satisfying aftertaste then continuity, but just because the chronology isn't a top priority doesn't mean it does not exist. In the third one, he outright says that huge breaks in canon would make players feel betrayed and that he doesn't want that, meaning he cares about canon to some extent. Miyamoto is onlyone person who works on the series, too.



The repeated confirmation of the existence of a timeline from major NoJ developers that made the games>some rando NoA employee who replies to fan letters.



If you make a sequel to GAME 1 (GAME 2) that is a sequel to it, and then make GAME 3 which takes place before GAME 1(and hence, also before GAME 2), and then make GAME 4 a sequel to GAME 3, and then make GAME 5 as a prequel to GAME 3, you get:

GAME 5>GAME 3>GAME 4>GAME 1>GAME 2

How is this not a chronology?



t's possible the DT solution wasn;t thought up yet by the developers, or that they were only talking about the two endings we see ingame.



Yeah, a defined timeline FOR BotW, not the other games. Hence why they've been hush about BotW's placement in contrast to the other titles. BotW is obviously long after Zelda 2 on the DT anyway



The Triforce is called a legend/myth in the manual of ALttP, and yet we see it exists in-universe with our own eyes at the end.
I know how hard it is to prove a negative, believer me. The fact that he doesn't NOT say there's a timeline when talking about how the games are intended not to clash places room open for a timeline, sure. But then he also didn't NOT say he's a big fan of Chocolate-peanut butter ice cream leaves room open that he is. Having dinner the timeline debates back in the early thousands, we were all watching through the lens of the time so we got to see the complete lack of anything approaching a timeline and plenty of indications against and outright denials of the same. It's easy to bite have a "timeline" and look back to make history fit our current state. Believing as I do that there was not intended to be any overarching timeline, it's unimportant to me and so I will agree that should you choose to believe that there was always a timeline, you can find plenty of evidence that there was should you choose to interpret it in that way.

Instead of being drawn into anything to prove a negative, I'm going to wish that Zelda did more top-down pixelart games. Sure, it's easy to crank them out every year without effort but if Nintendo handled it with a five year production cycle, they could make something truly unique and worthy of the Zelda stamp.
 
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To post on topic while also sticking to timeline ****, I agree with an earlier comment that says that they hope that Nintendo will take a break from the Downfall Timeline and place more games on the other branches. There's plenty of room on the Adult Timeline, for example, to really see how New Hyrule and its culture and customs evolve, as well as some new villains. Unified Timeline also has room for exploring a pre-Ganon Hyrule. Even Child Timeline has some potential, with its focus on ancient magic artifacts. Hopefully TotK will be the last DT game for a few years or so; I don't want to see the DT disappear, as its themes of Ganon's cyclical returns and descent into madness are interesting, but a break would be dope.

Shifting away from timeline stuff, there's also the fact that I'd like to see an original 2D game with the LA remake artstyle. Or a handrawn artstyle. I also want to see the return of the Mirror Shield; it had cool puzzle solving capabilities, and even some clever defensive/offensive capabilities in some games. It also had a badass design in nearly every game.
 
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twilitfalchion

and thus comes the end of an era
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Could do the usual "better story, better characters" but that's a tired wish at this point.

Something else I'd love for Zelda to do is more complex/less-predictable bosses. Ones that feel like fully-realized fights as opposed to puzzles. I've mentioned it before, but a boss that can be easily taken down by just using the dungeon item feels so mindless.

Use X item, stun boss, slash at weak point. Gets boring as hell, especially with how Link is established in canon as something of a combat expert (at the very least a competent swordsman) in most entries. BotW's bosses were something in the ballpark of what I'd like to see, but even they could be reduced to arrow stun/spam. The AI would have to be adjusted to suit how many options the player has and punish them properly for abusing their resources, as should be the case for any well-designed boss battle.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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Indeed.
But BotW/TotK take place 10,000 years after the last major crisis with Ganon.
Granted, there may be other crises that occurred between the Hero of the Calamity and Hero of the Wild's stories (Vaati, Maladus, other villains).
But the fact that it has been 10,000 years since the last time Ganon/Ganondorf has been an issue to deal with AND the fact that the details of his portrayal in BotW/TotK don't match up with where we left off with Ganondorf in any of the timelines MEANS that this "timeline merger" I propose is an event that could've happened eons in the past, perhaps millennia prior to the events from the ancient tapestry.

Some people want a timeline.
Currently the timeline we have is one of the closest things we are going to get for a timeline explanation.
But BotW/TotK don't fit neatly into all timelines.
Eiji Aonuma and Shigeru Miyamoto have even stated that BotW "exists in all timelines so to speak".

A timeline merger happening between the events of the zelda games on the timeline and the events presented in BotW/TotK would be a logical method of placing the games on the "canon" timeline.
Even in interviews asking about the relevence of the past games to BotW/TotK, Eiji has stated that the other games are more like legends and myths to the people of this era of Hyrule. They happened so far in the past that they have not much of an impact on the present.
And the fact that things such as Twilight, the Dark World, the Great Sea, and other things that are exclusive to single timelines are common knowledge in world presented to us in BotW is something that muddies the water.

A timeline merger happening at some point between Zelda II, Four Swords Adventures, Spirit Tracks, and the Great Calamity depicted in the Ancient Tapestry would be something to satiate that itch that has been bugging the timeline enthusiasts and answers the question of how things exclusive to other timelines are found referenced in the world of BotW so commonly.

Some people want a timeline, but I want a timeline that has any degree of relevance in the games themselves. Unless the games can thematically build up to a collapse of multiple timelines into a single whole, it's just lazy writing that Nintendo gets to do after the fact, because the timeline is never relevant to the games.
 

RamboBambiBambo

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But again, the Door of Time doesn't seal Link (as far as we know). I think there might be a discrepancy here between the door of time and the gate of time which seem to be similar but separate objects. Also, I think the timeline split is asinine and is unnecessary, not to mention it makes zero sense. Fight, but I'm wondering why the harp of Ages wouldn't cause more timeline. Splits. Whether or not it works on different principles, it's still manipulates time. Then again, I may have missed something about what you were saying.
We already know a timeline split was obvious, considering that The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are both games that follow the Hero of Time's adventure, but from different endings.

Adulthood Timeline has Link sent back in time by Zelda after his battle and being absent from the timeline. Ganondorf breaks free of his sealing and Link is not there to stop it. So the people pray and the Gods they praised flooded their world in order to keep Ganondorf from obtaining the pieces of the Triforce he sought.

Childhood Timeline picks up where Link was sent back in time by Zelda to a point before he drew the Master Sword but after his first meeting with Princess Zelda. Link had accidentally brought the Triforce of Courage back in time with him and, as was stated in Ocarina of Time, when one person possesses a piece of the Triforce, the other two pieces autoatically are attracted to the individuals that best represent the trait their piece represents.
Link goes and has his adventure in Termina while Ganondorf is sentenced to death... only to have his execution thwarted by the Triforce of Power and he is cast into the Twilight Realm, directly leading into Twilight Princess's earliest events.

As for why the Gate of Time and Harp of Ages do not have the same rules when you go back in time to alter the past?

We have only seen timeline splits happen with the Gate of Time/Door of Time.
Skyward Sword has a timeline split and we follow the timeline where we planted the Lifefruit Tree but disregard the timeline Link accidentally abandoned. Groose's alteration of dialogue is evident of this as before you go back in time he comments about the empty grove in the Sealed Temple. But after you return to the present to harvest the Lifefruit, Groose's dialogue directly states that the tree has been here since he followed you from Skyloft.

Ocarina of Time has the Childhood and Adulthood timelines split off as a result of the time shenanigans that were performed during the game. As for the Downfall Timeline, it doesn't make sense to have it be a result of Link dying during the final battle with Ganondorf/Ganon because there was no time-travel involved in the last fight. However, it DOES make sense if it is simply a timeline Link accidentally abandoned when trying to complete the Sprit Temple, as part of the temple had to have the player go back in time to alter the past and solve half the dungeon. Returning to the future, you complete the other half. Ergo, the Downfall Timeline SHOULD have a Spirit Temple that was never completed.

Meanwhile, there is the Harp of Ages from Oracle of Ages.
Even though Veran traveled back into the past and altered history while Link and Impa were still in the "present era", both Link and Impa were not altered by its time-travel effects.
If the Harp of Ages made timeline splits, then that would only mean that at the start of the game, Veran possesses Nayru the Oracle of Ages, declares her sinister intentions, jumps back in time... ... and nothing happens. Because if the Harp of Ages followed the same rules as the Gate of Time/Door of Time, there would be a timeline now where Veran and Nayru just vanished and ceased to exist and there would be two more timelines made -
The Tower Timeline in which Veran was successful in lighting her flame for the ritual.
The Normal Timeline in which nothing happened so the status quo never changed. Just that this timeline now would no longer have the Harp of Age and an Oracle of Ages.
Instead we see the direct results of Veran's influence in the past as it alters the very present we are standing in, thus we play through the entire game to correct all the wrongdoings of Veran and restore the "present era" into being what we knew it to be before her negative influence on history began.

Gate of Time/Door of Time causes splits of the timeline.
Each split timeline continues onward into the future, with your departures into the past resulting in that timeline suddenly being absent of you and time marches on as normal.
Gate of Time alterations.png

Harp of Ages causes you to venture into the past to alter a single timeline's events.
Basically it is like playing a game with multiple choices, you want to have the best choice for one playthrough.
You make a bad choice? You load a previous save and then overwrite the save that had the bad choices.
Repeat until you achieve the best possible ending in the game.
Harp of Ages alterations.png

As for the Door of Time sealing Link?
It had to have sealed Link.
Rauru stated that he was in the Sacred Realm for seven years.
Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm.
Ganondorf is a smart tactician.
Wouldn't it be a smart move to keep an eye on the Hero and take him out before he can meddle in your plans?
Well, if Link is in the Sacred Realm for seven years and under some sort of protection, then it makes sense why Ganondorf wouldn't do such a thing. He couldn't so much as scratch Link. So, he had to scheme and work around that. Instead, he turned Link into a pawn that would unintentionally help him reveal the location of Zelda and the other Triforce pieces, Ganondorf not truly knowing until the endgame that Link possessed Farore's piece.

---

Some people want a timeline, but I want a timeline that has any degree of relevance in the games themselves. Unless the games can thematically build up to a collapse of multiple timelines into a single whole, it's just lazy writing that Nintendo gets to do after the fact, because the timeline is never relevant to the games.
Not that hard to do actually.

All they have to do is make a few games with odd details mixed into the ends that make little to no sense UNTIL we get the game that explains the timeline merger. It would be an interesting concept.
Imagine it, a BotW style 3D Zelda game in which the Downfall, Childhood, and Adulthood timelines are set to converge by mortal hands seeking to meddle with time.

A failed initial attempt by these villains results in a landscape covered in temporal rifts, pockets in which "islands" of the other timelines are scattered across the world. You step into these island and your modeling and lighting shift. One timeline is in Realistic. Another in Toon styles. And the third in Skyward Sword painted style.

Three Kingdoms of Hyrule with three parallel Bloodlines of Hylia.
Three Demon Armies led by Three separate Villains.
Three Links, two of which being the ones we played as in two other games with those "peculiar endings" are now NPCs that we can encounter as we play as the third Link that is to be the one who helps mend the timeline.

Merging the timeline introduces the BotW semi-realistic cell-shaded art style; artistically signifiying that the three timelines are now one and the same. The game eventually has its happy ending and the timelines are reunified, allowing the Breath of the Wild games to be placed afterwards comfortably.

Skyward Sword is the definitive first game in the original Unified Timeline.
The Ancient Tapestry of 10,000 Years, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom take place on a second Reunified Timeline at the end of the timeline chart, with other games possibly happening before the Ancient Tapestry events and after the BotW/TotK.
And possibly even other games on the Terrako Paradox timeline caused by Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity.

If Nintendo were to add in a set of games that does this and reunites the split timelines, it would allow them to add the BotW games to the timeline definitively and, more importantly, comfortably. Especially considering that currently they are not concerned with it but it is something that they know might come up in the future. For now, they want us to be imaginative with it. Though BotW takes place at the end of the timeline, they currently do not want to focus on specifically where. Later on, if they do want to place it definitively; the best solution is to have some games eventually reunify the timeline and THEN place BotW/TotK there.
 
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Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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We already know a timeline split was obvious, considering that The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are both games that follow the Hero of Time's adventure, but from different endings.

Adulthood Timeline has Link sent back in time by Zelda after his battle and being absent from the timeline. Ganondorf breaks free of his sealing and Link is not there to stop it. So the people pray and the Gods they praised flooded their world in order to keep Ganondorf from obtaining the pieces of the Triforce he sought.

Childhood Timeline picks up where Link was sent back in time by Zelda to a point before he drew the Master Sword but after his first meeting with Princess Zelda. Link had accidentally brought the Triforce of Courage back in time with him and, as was stated in Ocarina of Time, when one person possesses a piece of the Triforce, the other two pieces autoatically are attracted to the individuals that best represent the trait their piece represents.
Link goes and has his adventure in Termina while Ganondorf is sentenced to death... only to have his execution thwarted by the Triforce of Power and he is cast into the Twilight Realm, directly leading into Twilight Princess's earliest events.

As for why the Gate of Time and Harp of Ages do not have the same rules when you go back in time to alter the past?

We have only seen timeline splits happen with the Gate of Time/Door of Time.
Skyward Sword has a timeline split and we follow the timeline where we planted the Lifefruit Tree but disregard the timeline Link accidentally abandoned. Groose's alteration of dialogue is evident of this as before you go back in time he comments about the empty grove in the Sealed Temple. But after you return to the present to harvest the Lifefruit, Groose's dialogue directly states that the tree has been here since he followed you from Skyloft.

Ocarina of Time has the Childhood and Adulthood timelines split off as a result of the time shenanigans that were performed during the game. As for the Downfall Timeline, it doesn't make sense to have it be a result of Link dying during the final battle with Ganondorf/Ganon because there was no time-travel involved in the last fight. However, it DOES make sense if it is simply a timeline Link accidentally abandoned when trying to complete the Sprit Temple, as part of the temple had to have the player go back in time to alter the past and solve half the dungeon. Returning to the future, you complete the other half. Ergo, the Downfall Timeline SHOULD have a Spirit Temple that was never completed.

Meanwhile, there is the Harp of Ages from Oracle of Ages.
Even though Veran traveled back into the past and altered history while Link and Impa were still in the "present era", both Link and Impa were not altered by its time-travel effects.
If the Harp of Ages made timeline splits, then that would only mean that at the start of the game, Veran possesses Nayru the Oracle of Ages, declares her sinister intentions, jumps back in time... ... and nothing happens. Because if the Harp of Ages followed the same rules as the Gate of Time/Door of Time, there would be a timeline now where Veran and Nayru just vanished and ceased to exist and there would be two more timelines made -
The Tower Timeline in which Veran was successful in lighting her flame for the ritual.
The Normal Timeline in which nothing happened so the status quo never changed. Just that this timeline now would no longer have the Harp of Age and an Oracle of Ages.
Instead we see the direct results of Veran's influence in the past as it alters the very present we are standing in, thus we play through the entire game to correct all the wrongdoings of Veran and restore the "present era" into being what we knew it to be before her negative influence on history began.

Gate of Time/Door of Time causes splits of the timeline.
Each split timeline continues onward into the future, with your departures into the past resulting in that timeline suddenly being absent of you and time marches on as normal.
View attachment 67143

Harp of Ages causes you to venture into the past to alter a single timeline's events.
Basically it is like playing a game with multiple choices, you want to have the best choice for one playthrough.
You make a bad choice? You load a previous save and then overwrite the save that had the bad choices.
Repeat until you achieve the best possible ending in the game.
View attachment 67144

As for the Door of Time sealing Link?
It had to have sealed Link.
Rauru stated that he was in the Sacred Realm for seven years.
Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm.
Ganondorf is a smart tactician.
Wouldn't it be a smart move to keep an eye on the Hero and take him out before he can meddle in your plans?
Well, if Link is in the Sacred Realm for seven years and under some sort of protection, then it makes sense why Ganondorf wouldn't do such a thing. He couldn't so much as scratch Link. So, he had to scheme and work around that. Instead, he turned Link into a pawn that would unintentionally help him reveal the location of Zelda and the other Triforce pieces, Ganondorf not truly knowing until the endgame that Link possessed Farore's piece.

---


Not that hard to do actually.

All they have to do is make a few games with odd details mixed into the ends that make little to no sense UNTIL we get the game that explains the timeline merger. It would be an interesting concept.
Imagine it, a BotW style 3D Zelda game in which the Downfall, Childhood, and Adulthood timelines are set to converge by mortal hands seeking to meddle with time.

A failed initial attempt by these villains results in a landscape covered in temporal rifts, pockets in which "islands" of the other timelines are scattered across the world. You step into these island and your modeling and lighting shift. One timeline is in Realistic. Another in Toon styles. And the third in Skyward Sword painted style.

Three Kingdoms of Hyrule with three parallel Bloodlines of Hylia.
Three Demon Armies led by Three separate Villains.
Three Links, two of which being the ones we played as in two other games with those "peculiar endings" are now NPCs that we can encounter as we play as the third Link that is to be the one who helps mend the timeline.

Merging the timeline introduces the BotW semi-realistic cell-shaded art style; artistically signifiying that the three timelines are now one and the same. The game eventually has its happy ending and the timelines are reunified, allowing the Breath of the Wild games to be placed afterwards comfortably.

Skyward Sword is the definitive first game in the original Unified Timeline.
The Ancient Tapestry of 10,000 Years, Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom take place on a second Reunified Timeline at the end of the timeline chart, with other games possibly happening before the Ancient Tapestry events and after the BotW/TotK.
And possibly even other games on the Terrako Paradox timeline caused by Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity.

If Nintendo were to add in a set of games that does this and reunites the split timelines, it would allow them to add the BotW games to the timeline definitively and, more importantly, comfortably. Especially considering that currently they are not concerned with it but it is something that they know might come up in the future. For now, they want us to be imaginative with it. Though BotW takes place at the end of the timeline, they currently do not want to focus on specifically where. Later on, if they do want to place it definitively; the best solution is to have some games eventually reunify the timeline and THEN place BotW/TotK there.

You're asking a lot. If there's anyone who cares less about the lore and continuity of the Legend of Zelda than Nintendo does, I've not met them. If Nintendo had any desire to do anything with the timeline, be it with one or with all of them, they would have done so years ago. As it is now, the closest they've come to giving a damn about series continuity is a book they didn't even write.
 

RamboBambiBambo

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You're asking a lot. If there's anyone who cares less about the lore and continuity of the Legend of Zelda than Nintendo does, I've not met them. If Nintendo had any desire to do anything with the timeline, be it with one or with all of them, they would have done so years ago. As it is now, the closest they've come to giving a damn about series continuity is a book they didn't even write.
That can change at any time.
(there is a pun that could be made there)
 

RamboBambiBambo

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You write a dozen and I'll write one. We'll split the profits 50/50.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Write a dozen you say?
  1. LoZ: Spirit of a Hero
  2. LoZ: Fables of the Picori
  3. LoZ: Oracle of Secrets
  4. Zelda III: The Legend of Link
  5. LoZ: Hyrule Warriors - Crisis of Succession
  6. LoZ: Dawn of a New Light
  7. LoZ: Curse from the Past
  8. LoZ: Four Swords Awakening
  9. LoZ: Hylian Voyage
  10. LoZ: A Link Across The Ages
  11. LoZ: Blight of the Calamity
  12. LoZ: Hope for the Forsaken (work in progress on finer details)
Done.
Though the wages split would be not be 50/50 as more than two people are working on this game.
We would receive 4-out-of-100 perhaps.

Timeline.jpg
 
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