What do you wish Zelda did more of?

[Ryu that somebody?]

I think it's mostly that I don't find the blank slate cutouts that are Link, Zelda, and Ganon to be very satisfying. I'm not going to be pulled into a story these days if it doesn't have interesting characters, and all three of our main characters barely edge out enough personality traits to qualify even as uninteresting. There are tons of games that do the silent player avatar thing better than Zelda does. Stuff like Outer Worlds, Fallout: New Vegas, and Baldur's Gate 3 keep your character silent while letting you define their voice and keeping all the characters around them interesting.

I hope I didn't put you on the defensive, I actually wouldn't have responded but since there were multiple posts about it I thought I'd make it known there was not a consensus among us about that topic.

Thinking about it some, I actually think the early Zelda games did quite well with Link's character development considering the videogame avatar format, usually based around Link's youth and maturity:

• The first Legend of Zelda has Link go from an obvious volunteer journeyman to a prepared, experienced adventurer mostly characterized by his growing arsenal of tools, and it's remarkable how much more distinguished Link looks just from his sword, shield, and ring upgrades (his red ring outfit almost looks like a uniform).
  
  
• Zelda II is about Link growing up: this time his adventure isn't just a mission but a personal responsibility (at the very least he must continue to survive so that Ganon isn't revived). The focus is on literal experience and abilities over tools, and in the end Link finds the Triforce of Courage by defeating the last boss, his own shadow; suggesting that the most courageous and difficult part to becoming an adult is getting over yourself.
  
  
• In A Link to the Past, the Triforce reflects who you really are inside: when Link first reaches the Dark World/ Sacred Realm he is a rabbit, which is open to interpretation but to me reflects childlike innocence. By the end, the Triforce looks into Link's heart and fulfills his deepest wish, which shows Link has gained a remarkable selflessness and maturity.
  
  
• Link's Awakening puts Link into the position of choosing to end his dream of paradise: at once reminding him to appreciate the fleeting moments of life as well as not to wallow too much in fantasies and navel gazing.

I think the really nifty part is how much the games try to evoke these characteristics in the player themselves. I don't know if I actually built character by playing Zelda games, but I can tell you it at least felt like I was!

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I hope I didn't put you on the defensive, I actually wouldn't have responded but since there were multiple posts about it I thought I'd make it known there was not a consensus among us about that topic.

Thinking about it some, I actually think the early Zelda games did quite well with Link's character development considering the videogame avatar format, usually based around Link's youth and maturity:

• The first Legend of Zelda has Link go from an obvious volunteer journeyman to a prepared, experienced adventurer mostly characterized by his growing arsenal of tools, and it's remarkable how much more distinguished Link looks just from his sword, shield, and ring upgrades (his red ring outfit almost looks like a uniform).
  
  
• Zelda II is about Link growing up: this time his adventure isn't just a mission but a personal responsibility (at the very least he must continue to survive so that Ganon isn't revived). The focus is on literal experience and abilities over tools, and in the end Link finds the Triforce of Courage by defeating the last boss, his own shadow; suggesting that the most courageous and difficult part to becoming an adult is getting over yourself.
  
  
• In A Link to the Past, the Triforce reflects who you really are inside: when Link first reaches the Dark World/ Sacred Realm he is a rabbit, which is open to interpretation but to me reflects childlike innocence. By the end, the Triforce looks into Link's heart and fulfills his deepest wish, which shows Link has gained a remarkable selflessness and maturity.
  
  
• Link's Awakening puts Link into the position of choosing to end his dream of paradise: at once reminding him to appreciate the fleeting moments of life as well as not to wallow too much in fantasies and navel gazing.

I think the really nifty part is how much the games try to evoke these characteristics in the player themselves. I don't know if I actually built character by playing Zelda games, but I can tell you it at least felt like I was!

I do agree that those Zelda games do manage to evoke those feelings, but I've never gotten the sense they anything has changed about Link. I know there's that yarn Nintendo wines about Link being a player avatar or whatnot, but Nintendo also insists on giving him a canonical name, appearance, and actions that the player has no say over. Link himself remains almost totally unchanged from the beginning of each appearance to the end.

 

[GrogStan]

Being able to do more fun stuff with the instruments. Like how in MM and WW you could change the pitch. Just being able to mess around makes the instruments feel much more fleshed out IMO.

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

Being able to do more fun stuff with the instruments. Like how in MM and WW you could change the pitch. Just being able to mess around makes the instruments feel much more fleshed out IMO.

I call for more spirit flute!

Also, I thought of this while watching my wife play BotW just now. She came upon a busted staircase in Hyrule castle and my first thought was not "climb the wall" but "sidle". Toss the entire climbing mechanic if you have to but BotW2 needs to have some hardcore sidling. We need to fight a boss with sidling! We need to get the Sidling Gauntlets and save the kingdom of Sidlerule! You get a sidle, you get a sidle, EVERYBODY GETS A SIDLE!

 

[Chevywolf30]

I call for more spirit flute!

Also, I thought of this while watching my wife play BotW just now. She came upon a busted staircase in Hyrule castle and my first thought was not "climb the wall" but "sidle". Toss the entire climbing mechanic if you have to but BotW2 needs to have some hardcore sidling. We need to fight a boss with sidling! We need to get the Sidling Gauntlets and save the kingdom of Sidlerule! You get a sidle, you get a sidle, EVERYBODY GETS A SIDLE!

Wind Waker was my first Zelda game and it took me a couple more to sadly realize that sidling was unique to it

 

[Dizzi]

I call for more spirit flute!

Also, I thought of this while watching my wife play BotW just now. She came upon a busted staircase in Hyrule castle and my first thought was not "climb the wall" but "sidle". Toss the entire climbing mechanic if you have to but BotW2 needs to have some hardcore sidling. We need to fight a boss with sidling! We need to get the Sidling Gauntlets and save the kingdom of Sidlerule! You get a sidle, you get a sidle, EVERYBODY GETS A SIDLE!

A link between worlds had sidling inbthe walls?

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

A link between worlds had sidling inbthe walls?

That definitely counts.

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

I wish they did more games outside of the Downfall Timeline.

Twilight Princess was supposed to get a sequel game where Link ventured away from Hyrule, similar to how the Hero of Time ventured to Termina. But that sequel's development was stalled and then forgotten.

A Majora's Mask sequel eventually spiraled out of control and became Link's Crossbow Training.

We have only seen two incarnations of Link experience stories in either of these timelines (LoZ: TP & LoZ: FSA in the Childhood Timeline and then LoZ: TWW/PH & LoZ: ST in the Adulthood Timeline).
Meanwhile the Downfall Timeline has Three Incarnations of games where each one gets at least one sequel game (LoZ: ALttP/OoA/OoS/LA followed by LoZ: ALBW/TFH followed by TLoZ/Zelda II incarnations of Link.)

The Unified Timeline has Four Games
The Adulthood Timeline gets Three Games
Same with Childhood Timeline.
But the Downfall Timeline gets EIGHT GAMES !?!?!?!?

 

[Fraxinus]

thats cuz they just stuffed all the classic era games in the downfall timeline

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

True BUT
Tri-Force Heroes didn't need to be a sequel to A Link Between Worlds.

• It takes place in Hytopia and not Hyrule.
• It doesn't feature any gameplay themes of ALBW other than the art theming changing from Paintings to Fashion Design.
• The art style shift from what ALBW had into Toon style makes it even further disjointed from the original.
• The multiplayer aspect leaves open questions as to the origins of the Red and Blue cosplay Links. Like, will we get an origin story for each of them later on in the franchise or are they just a couple of randos who decided to do hero stuff suddenly?

Tri-Force Heroes could've easily been moved to the Childhood or Adulthood Timelines since it has nothing really connecting it to the original.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

thats cuz they just stuffed all the classic era games in the downfall timeline

although thinking about it, skyward sword was basically the last non downfall timeline game in retrospect

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

Let's be honest. I honestly don't believe there's any legitimate argument against this: Nintendo never had any timeline for the games. Dark Horse either made up the timeline split for Hyrule Historia or were in touch with developers who made up a timeline split for Hyrule Historia. I'm waiting for the day Nintendo lays a couple of cards on the table and admits that there's no hard and fast rule regarding the "timeline" because it's actually the LEGEND of Zelda. The same story told again and again over centuries which takes on aspects of the culture in which it is told but necessarily exists in no era in which it is told. We'll all be able to call it a legend again and stop picking apart the specifics. I'm hyped for the day when The Legend of Zelda is as legitimate as BotW as Oracle of Seasons as Four Swords Adventures. No more The History of Zelda, bring it back to The Legend of Zelda!

What do I wish Zelda did more of? Obfuscation and subterfuge. No timeline, just interpretations of The Legend.

 

[Fraxinus]

skyward sword was also the last game made before they put out the hyrule historia, so it kinda makes sense they tried to sell the downfall timeline by making games for it. which after the fact of it being made a thing, we've only gotten like one or two downfall timeline games made with the downfall timeline specifically in mind. so idk if all the classic games where they werent thinking about a timeline all being dumped into the downfall timeline should really count as games made for the timelines at least, cuz they just needed a place to go.

 

[Fraxinus]

dark horse is just the western publisher of the book. it was also released in japan @Hyrulian Hero

but they outsourced the timeline writing to someone unaffiliated with the games so its basically just any fan theory but licensed by nintendo in this case

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

skyward sword was also the last game made before they put out the hyrule historia, so it kinda makes sense they tried to sell the downfall timeline by making games for it. which after the fact of it being made a thing, we've only gotten like one or two downfall timeline games made with the downfall timeline specifically in mind. so idk if all the classic games where they werent thinking about a timeline all being dumped into the downfall timeline should really count as games made for the timelines at least, cuz they just needed a place to go.

no definitely not, the 3ds games just so happen to be there by being follow ups to the LttP era, and Botw did....whatever it did