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What could Nintendo have done besides the downfall timeline?

mαrkαsscoρ

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reeeeeeeeee timeline
This goes out to anyone who still retains a single shred of care for this topic

The idea of a downfall timeline is very underwhelming as it just puts the 2d games in a big what-if scenario. But thinking about it, where else could they have gone? I think the downfall timeline comes from them needing a scenario where the main events of Ocarina of Time take place, but doesn't lead to Wind Waker. B/c OoT as is leads straight into it. In the child timeline, the Imprisoning war wouldn't happen at all since Ganondorf would have been captured and it'd lead straight into Twilight Princess. There's also the Zelda 2 towns.

Any thoughts to how else the 2d games could work?
 
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I'm still partial to the idea of the King of Hyrule's wish at the end of the Wind Waker following a statement made in A Link to the Past about Triforce wishes only remaining in effect for as long as the wisher exists. Once they die or are destroyed, things return to normal. So, the 2d games instead could occur in the once flooded Hyrule. It's not a perfect idea, and I'm sure there are inconsistencies, but it works better than the downfall timeline, at least. Instead of a timeline split on a randomly selected what-if scenario to be more important than any other what-if scenario, it's simply a location split of Old Hyrule and New Hyrule.
 

Dio

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I mean Zelda 1 and 2 would take place post ST, with a deflooding of the original Hyrule, the Zelda 2 map shows a lot of water around it which the earlier Zelda's never had with their hyrules. In Zelda 2 there are places named after the OOT sages so it makes sense for them to be in the adult timeline where they became sages rather than the child timeline where the white men were sages.

Personally i think ALTTP, ALBW, LOZ along with AOL, MC and OOX should be considered part of their own separate universe as ALTTPs backstory does not match that well with what actually happened in OOT or SS.
 
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The downfall timeline is a non-in-game-canonical what-if scenario built on a different ending to Ocarina of Time. To a non-canon ending. It is, in my opinion, as canonical as the CDi games, any of the Nintendo-sponsored manga, all of it. And none of that stuff is considered canon, so why should the downfall timeline be?

The Great Flood remaining permanent just because the King of Hyrule wished to "erase Hyrule" would be thematically rich, beautifully poetic, wonderfully good. But then Spirit Tracks makes New Hyrule. Not on the same land, but continuing the same concept: a Hyrule Castle, a Hyrule Castle Town, seven Sages, a holy sword, a monarchy with a Link, a Zelda and a Demon King. Hyrule is not erased.

So why not have the increased amount of water-absorbing foliage planted by the Great Deku Tree lead to a decrease in flooding, which leads to the notably smaller Hyrule seen in ALttP and have the rest of the DT take place after Spirit Tracks? Instead of having a non-canon-ending to OoT be a dumping ground for the 2D entries.

If not the DT as an extension to the AT, why not the DT as a sequel to FSA in the CT? FSA and ALttP maps are similar, the introduction and explanation of Ganondorf's trident (as well as his use of the Pyramid as his base of operations in the Dark World), the seven maidens as direct descendants. It would also give the Four Sword saga some significance towards the larger Zelda world (right now, they're kind of in this pocket universe).

Finally, why did OoT Ganondorf have to be the first ever? They already gave the option for reincarnated Ganons by making the FSA Ganondorf a reincarnation in HH; why didn't they just make ALttP Ganon the first Ganon, and make the Ganondorf from OoT the second? There probably is a reason.

And, of course my preferred option, is they don't do the split at all and make it work as a continuous timeline, so that the full events of Ocarina of Time that we play through are canon for all other games. Right now, they don't happen in MM, TP, or FSA's worlds, and they don't happen in ALttP, LA, OoS, OoA, ALBW, TFH, Z1, Z2 or BotW's worlds. That's crazy to me: Ocarina of Time, as we played through, only occurs in the world of three games: WW, PH, ST.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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To be honest, I think the Downfall timeline is fine as a concept. There was never really any placement of A Link to the Past that I felt was satisfying back when people were only making two split timeline theories, the Downfall Tineline fixed the issue of there being 3 sequels to Ocarina of Time.
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

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I never liked the idea of the downfall timeline. The implication of it is that there should be an alternate timeline for every zelda game for each scenario in which the player just sucks. There was a thread a while back on this although I can't recall the name of it. One idea raised there (and @Ryuu Kage Desu should know more about this) is that the Downfall Timeline was the original timeline. We're the events of OoT to play out without any interference, DT would always be the direct result. But for some reason, possibly the triforce wish in alttp, things reset and the other two timelines were a result of that.
 

thePlinko

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The only issue I have with the downfall timeline is that it’s specifically a sequel to OoT. Why just OoT? Are there timelines if Link fails in WW? TP? MM? Why is it specifically Link failing during the Ganon fight?

I think the best way to fix this is simple. Make a new game, maybe in between OoT and WW, about one of Ganondorfs minions going back in time to kill link. Kinda Like AoC, but actually good.


The Great Flood remaining permanent just because the King of Hyrule wished to "erase Hyrule" would be thematically rich, beautifully poetic, wonderfully good. But then Spirit Tracks makes New Hyrule. Not on the same land, but continuing the same concept: a Hyrule Castle, a Hyrule Castle Town, seven Sages, a holy sword, a monarchy with a Link, a Zelda and a Demon King. Hyrule is not erased.
You’re just gonna ignore the ending of WW where they say that they’re going to make a new Hyrule, huh?
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

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I never liked the idea of the downfall timeline. The implication of it is that there should be an alternate timeline for every zelda game for each scenario in which the player just sucks. There was a thread a while back on this although I can't recall the name of it. One idea raised there (and @Ryuu Kage Desu should know more about this) is that the Downfall Timeline was the original timeline. We're the events of OoT to play out without any interference, DT would always be the direct result. But for some reason, possibly the triforce wish in alttp, things reset and the other two timelines were a result of that.
Found it
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/is-the-downfall-the-natural-timeline.70156/
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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The implication of it is that there should be an alternate timeline for every zelda game for each scenario in which the player just sucks.
I've gone at length about it before, but I don't think alternate timelines work that way. I think only majorly impactful events would have alternate histories that coexist, and as we've seen throughout the series, the only major event that always seems to have to come to fruition is an eventual battle for the Triforce. Ocarina of Time is some type of transcendent nexus point for the series for that very reason, because it was the first time chronologically where that happened.

In the child timeline, where that battle for the Triforce was prevented from happening, it later was forcefully set into motion. That battle is so important that it seemingly cannot be prevented even after time travelling to stop it - it temporarily postponed it, but it still happened. Predestiny/destiny is often cited as a real force in-game, and I think that grapple for control of the Triforce after a split was one of those things that was predestined.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

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Ideally, I think they'd just have committed to the games being standalone. The timeline has always been a nebulous thing, and needing a book to confirm its continuity makes it even more nebulous.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

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I mean Zelda 1 and 2 would take place post ST, with a deflooding of the original Hyrule, the Zelda 2 map shows a lot of water around it which the earlier Zelda's never had with their hyrules. In Zelda 2 there are places named after the OOT sages so it makes sense for them to be in the adult timeline where they became sages rather than the child timeline where the white men were sages.

Personally i think ALTTP, ALBW, LOZ along with AOL, MC and OOX should be considered part of their own separate universe as ALTTPs backstory does not match that well with what actually happened in OOT or SS.
I remember that theory, it does make sense but I feel like tearing the NES games away from LttP and the rest is too drastic of a change from what it was originally, but maybe it shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things

w/o the downfall explanation, yeah, LttP's backstory is in a very awkward spot
I don't even necessarily see the downfall timeline as theoretical. It's as real and simultaneous as the adult timeline to me
nobody goes into a game and expects a casual game over to spring up its own continuity, it's not like MM where there's an actual cutscene of the game over w/ the moon falling which could maybe set a precedent for a "the hero fails" scenario, downfall is just them saying "yeah there's a game over and then this happens"
 

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