Twilight Princess "Twilight Princess is a Good Game, but It's Not a Good Zelda Game"

[sivelki]

Twilight princess is mature. Its realistic. Skyward sword is childish compared to TP

 

[Blu Ray]

lol what? before TP, WW was the only game with cel shaded graphics. OOT, the best zelda game / game of all time had "serious and realistic" graphics. and pretty "scary" and not comical enemies.

I'm pretty sure that you couldn't do a proper cel shade on N64 but Its graphics just can't give the serious and realistic feel that GC TP did, mostly due to it being crappy, Its impossible to make a game look realistic on it.

Twilight princess is mature. Its realistic. Skyward sword is childish compared to TP

The thing is, Zelda isn't mature, Its characters doesn't fit a realistic design, Zelda have dancing gorons, heart-shaped final boss, funny lookin dekus, usually some fat clown character and jelly blobs. I feel like Zelda isn't supposed to be mature, never was, I'd say thats a good thing, It makes the game more unique.

 

[Fame Killz]

The thing is, Zelda isn't mature, Its characters doesn't fit a realistic design, Zelda have dancing gorons, heart-shaped final boss, funny lookin dekus, usually some fat clown character and jelly blobs. I feel like Zelda isn't supposed to be mature, never was, I'd say thats a good thing, It makes the game more unique.

lmao what? MM wasn't mature? the end of the OG OOT wasn't mature? spitting blood? climbing down a breaking castle to escape? gtfo dude.

zelda is the most mature nintendo series to date....gods creating worlds, evil people trying to capture ancient power? sure it has some silly stuff for comic relief but what nintendo game doesn't?

OOT, MM and TP were all "mature" each being mroe mature after the other, which is why it must be in it's separate timeline...nintendo didn't do that by accident. so you saying zelda shouldn't be mature or realistic is ********, you're basically saying zelda shouldn't be what nintendo made it out to be....

yes they're other silly looking/feeling games, like MC, WW, and SS but there's also reasons for that.

obviously you're just hating on TP and wanna dish out any excuse you can to debunk it, but lone-behold, it's one of the best zelda games ever made, whether you like it or not.

 

[Linkthetank]

TP was ultimately the best Zelda game ever. And really, all of you calling it a bad Zelda game, honestly, you must be joking. The storyline is so well crafted, the dungeons well planned, I just don' understand where all the hate is coming from. Have you seen the graphics on TP compared to all the other Zeldas? I've played and beaten OOT, and I really, the only thing similar between OoT and TP is some of the background music in TP. And when people compare this game to other Zelda titles, how is that fair? Sure there are similarities between the different Zelda titles, but that was exactly what the creators intended. I do not know why everybody likes OOT and majora's mask more, because the plot seems so simple compared to TP, and altogether they were not as epic or impressing as TP.

 

[Blu Ray]

lmao what? MM wasn't mature? the end of the OG OOT wasn't mature? spitting blood? climbing down a breaking castle to escape? gtfo dude.

One scene of a dude spitting blood doesn`t make a game mature, actually, as far as I know, that was the only scene with blood on the whole Zelda series. And how does breaking a castle to escape makes it mature? Zelda isn't really aimed towards a specific age, It isn't a hardly noticeable blood that will make it so.

zelda is the most mature nintendo series to date....gods creating worlds, evil people trying to capture ancient power? sure it has some silly stuff for comic relief but what nintendo game doesn't?

Since when gods creating the world and evil trying to rule it is mature? Lots of kids cartoon have similar setup, heck, even Care bears had that "good vs evil" thing. And as far as I know, Metroid has no silly stuff. Metroid is aimed for teens~adults, thats clearly visible during the game.

OOT, MM and TP were all "mature" each being mroe mature after the other, which is why it must be in it's separate timeline...nintendo didn't do that by accident. so you saying zelda shouldn't be mature or realistic is ********, you're basically saying zelda shouldn't be what nintendo made it out to be....

What exactly Makes OoT and MM mature? By mature, I mean, the game is aimed specifically towards a teens~adults audience, thats clearly not the case for Zelda, the lack of realistic characteristics proves my point, I mean... There is no blood on the game (don' bring OoT ganon to this...), Its usually filled with silly monsters and bright colors. The atmosphere it has allows it to also be a kids game but can also be appreciated by grown ups. Kids can play around with Ocarina Songs, smash those green jelly blobs, heck, even finish a few temples (or the whole game, a 6~8 years old probably can do it). Try comparing it to Metroid, It gives a way more serious and mature feel then Zelda.

obviously you're just hating on TP and wanna dish out any excuse you can to debunk it, but lone-behold, it's one of the best zelda games ever made, whether you like it or not.

Its sad to see you fail to realize different people have different opinions. I'm not coming up with random excuses to hate TP, pretty sure I made some valid points that perhaps, even people who really liked TP would agree with. I'm a Zelda fan, played through most of them lots of times, but just because I enjoy it, It doesn't mean Its perfect or mature.

 

[Fame Killz]

@Fame Killz
Calm down man. There's no need to turn this into an argument and there's certainly no need to start insulting.

@Blu Ray
The Zelda series as a whole isn't a mature series I'll give you that. But some games certainly are more mature than others. I'd say OoT, MM, and TP are the most mature of them for reasons that I had assumed were obvious but clearly aren't So I'll go through them for you.

In OoT the game takes a very creepy turn during the second half of the adult phase. Places like the bottom of the well and to some extent the spirit temple were incredibly scary for younger audiences and can't be considered as being for all ages. As well as the coughing up blood scene (which was removed due to it being too mature) there are several blood smeared walls, zombie like creatures that bite at your neck and disembodied hands that fall from the ceiling and snatch you away. Certainly not something universally suitable for children.

MM was a disturbing game when you care to look into it. You take on the physical form of several beings who have died and you eventually encounter the spirits of. The transformation scenes in themselves can be scary for younger audiences and the entire build up of the game is one of dread and impending doom. Couple that with the intensity of some of the dungeons and you've got what many consider to be the most mature game of the series.

TP was a little more tame than the others however you do see a man stabbed through the chest with a sword and then pull it back out again. I won't even go into the famous lanyru scene as if you can't grasp why that would be mature then no amount of me explaining will do the trick. It also has partial nudity and a lot of characters are alluded to having being killed.

How these aren't mature I'll never know. Just because a game fits in the same series as something like WW, doesn't make it comparable to such when it comes to maturity.

basically the same thing I said, just much more polite

 

[Blu Ray]

@TheBlueReptile: Those scary parts have monsters which are still somewhat "comical" (I mean... compare RE zombies to Zelda zombies), also, lacks of blood (there might be some during the game, but not much. I mean, you slash monsters and they don't bleed) and some bright colors helps create a less "spooky" environment. MM doesn't really have any "scary" places like OoT, but It does have a more darker story and going through all the side quests lets you understand it better. What contributed to TP mature feel was its graphics, I agree with the things you've mentioned but they really aren't much of a worry. Zelda does have a few mature scenes, not the whole game, just a few parts and usually, you actually have to "try to make it mature" for it to be. I mean, when I was a kid, I finished MM without knowing what was going on, OoT was a lil scary but I got used to it quite fast, those zombies as far from realistic which makes it less scary.

Usually games that are meant to be mature are pretty clear on that. Resident Evil 2 started with people dieing, trucks exploding and zombies chasing after you, It also lacks bright colors and have some sad music, so right away, when you start playing it you just know its not a kids game. Zelda has minor violence and Its not supposed to be scary, some rare parts can be mature but most of it really isn't.

Anyway, I agree with what you've said, but I still believe that Zelda isn't mature enough to have a decent feel with realistic graphics, I feel like cel shading fits it better while also making it more kids friendly.

 

[Blu Ray]

I played OoT back when I was 6, of course, I couldn't do much back then, but I still enjoyed watching my uncle finish a few dungeons, thats the perspective I've been using. Ratings aren't 100% accurate, they actually can be far from it a few times, that happens mostly because adults go with their perspective and act like kids are supposed understand the game the same way they did, the thing is, THEY DON'T. I remember when I was younger and liked watching a brazillian sitcom called Os Normais, but well... I actually wasn't really getting any of the dirty jokes. Only when I got older I was able to understand it and just then I noticed how "dirty" it was. Thats what Zelda is, Its only mature if you actually try to make it mature.

Anyway, when I saw my uncle playing OoT, I never really payed attention to the story (couldn't really speak english though x_x) or the enemies bleeding (if they actually do, I never noticed that), in my head it was a cheerful game with very little "kids horror". I brought Resident Evil into this because I'd say kids judge a game mostly by Its atmosphere, If when you start the game it gives a dark and serious feel right away, they will feel uncomfortable with it. Zelda isn't like that, the "dark and serious feel" limit itself to a VERY FEW parts and some of them kids might not even get. I'm not saying Zelda is a kids game, but It definitely isn't supposed to have a mature, dark and serious atmosphere (at least not one that can be comprehended by all ages), you can tell when It is straight away, I'd say, even the most "mature" parts can be played fine by 10 year olds.

Now try and tell my that OoT and TP would both suit a cel-shaded style.

They would. If Nintendo remake OoT and TP with cel shading graphics they would probably be 7+ just like Wind Waker. Sincerely, Wind Waker would probably have a few dark and tense parts just like OoT if it weren't for Its graphics.

 

[A Link In Time]

I played OoT back when I was 6, of course, I couldn't do much back then, but I still enjoyed watching my uncle finish a few dungeons, thats the perspective I've been using. Ratings aren't 100% accurate, they actually can be far from it a few times, that happens mostly because adults go with their perspective and act like kids are supposed understand the game the same way they did, the thing is, THEY DON'T. I remember when I was younger and liked watching a brazillian sitcom called Os Normais, but well... I actually wasn't really getting any of the dirty jokes. Only when I got older I was able to understand it and just then I noticed how "dirty" it was. That's what Zelda is, Its only mature if you actually try to make it mature.

I agree with the last part of your statement. Most people, however, argue that the more mature tone was increasingly forced in Twilight Princess than say, Majora's Mask. But while Twilight Princess is also mature like Majora's Mask, it is so in a different fashion entirely. Twilight Princess has a grittier feel to it that is only amplified by Zant and the Twili. This effectively earned the game a "T" rating along with such things as the violent death of the Water Sage by Ganondorf in the scene after completion of the Arbiter's Grounds.

Anyway, when I saw my uncle playing OoT, I never really payed attention to the story (couldn't really speak english though x_x) or the enemies bleeding (if they actually do, I never noticed that), in my head it was a cheerful game with very little "kids horror". I brought Resident Evil into this because I'd say kids judge a game mostly by Its atmosphere, If when you start the game it gives a dark and serious feel right away, they will feel uncomfortable with it. Zelda isn't like that, the "dark and serious feel" limit itself to a VERY FEW parts and some of them kids might not even get. I'm not saying Zelda is a kids game, but It definitely isn't supposed to have a mature, dark and serious atmosphere (at least not one that can be comprehended by all ages), you can tell when It is straight away, I'd say, even the most "mature" parts can be played fine by 10 year olds.

Comprehension issues aside, an intended dark tone has worked before extremely well as in Majora's Mask, which received almost universal plans from fans for shaking up the formula. This was in no less fashion from more proactive villains such as the possessed Skull Kid to the malicious looking moon hanging over Termina and shortly bound to determine the land's fate. Zelda can be mature and do it very well.

They would. If Nintendo remake OoT and TP with cel shading graphics they would probably be 7+ just like Wind Waker. Sincerely, Wind Waker would probably have a few dark and tense parts just like OoT if it weren't for Its graphics.

Twilight Princess was crafted for its specific art style. I truly can not picture Zant, Midna, or Wolf Link in the Wind Waker's cartoonish graphics. Twilight Princess told a story of despair and the style was very intentional in that respect.

 

[Deniro]

I think the "having a different scale for Zelda games" thing is a bit silly unless you give your least favourite Zelda a 1/10

I must also say that I completely love Twilight Princess, to me, it felt as the most "true" Zelda game since Link to the Past, and while I can agree that it took a lot of elements from Ocarina of Time, my opinion is that it improved on nearly all spots, in a way, it was everything Oot was supposed to be, and for me, it ties for first place (both as Zelda game and Video game in general) with the masterpiece that is Majora's Mask

 

[JuicieJ]

Hyrule Field was definitely beautiful when looking at things from afar, but a closer look shows blurry textures.

That goes for any game with realistic textures, even HD ones. Anything up-close in a video game looks unimpressive. This happened many times when I played through The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, sometimes to the point where things up-close looked like N64 grahpics. These were corners of the game that were unable to be explored and didn't have much time spent on them, mind you, but even the things that looked breathtaking from a distance looked kinda "meh" up-close. So, in all honesty, I don't think that's a very legitimate complaint.

Twilight Princess' soundtrack wasn't very impressive, and most of it was barely noticeable and forgetful. There seemed to be a lot of rehashing of the Hyrule Field theme, which I personally did not like but the main problem was many of these rehashes weren't very creative in my opinion. Twilight Princess' music did not seem to try to stand out like in previous games, it was probably meant to blend with the visuals and in turn became unnoticeable. I felt the music was depressing because unlike other Zelda games, the music did not really support you. In many Zelda games, when you are in a dungeon, you will eventually start humming the dungeon's theme in your head. I could not do this with Twilight Princess, because the themes were very unnoticeable. One theme I did take notice to, however, is Midna's Lament. This song, in my opinion, perfectly conveyed the situation in which it was meant to support. It was also an excellent remix/revamp of the Hyrule Field theme, very melodic and very memorable, I found myself staying still during that time just to hear the tune.

This is where I actually find one of TP's strengths. It's actually better for music inside dungeons and such to not be heard, but felt. It allows the feeling of the area to be amplified tremendously to where it feels like you're actually there. The catchy tunes from older games are great, yes, but they don't set the proper tone for an area. The only musical tracks that should be truly memorable are the ones from cutscenes and the overworld (which I actually did find memorable, but that comes down to opinion, I suppose) so that they can stick out and so that the ones where gameplay is in-depth can fade into the background and grace the ears without intrusion to the area. (Eh, that may make more sense to a musician.)

The gameplay is my biggest problem with the game. Twilight Princess introduced many cool new items such as the ball and chain, the dominion rod, bomb arrows, etc. These were very cool items, but I was very disappointed that they were not expanded upon, many of the items were dungeon-only use, which really makes me disappointed. A lot of the dungeons also felt boring and tedious, namely Goron Mines, the Lakebed Temple, and Arbiter's Grounds; but I did like the Snowpeak Temple, Temple of Time, and the City in the Sky, two of which most people seem to hate. The fetch quests were also pretty unentertaining and tedious, but most fetch quests are. My biggest gripe is the Twilight Realm. I had many thoughts about that place, only to be exposed to a joke of a minidungeon and a terribly easy (yet very entertaining) boss fight.

I can't really argue with those thoughts. They're basically my own, save the dungeons thing. It's actually quite the opposite for me, although I thought Snowpeak was pretty decent.

I am one of those people who hates the ToT and CitS, more Temple than City. ToT was quite boring and tedious, and it didn't offer much of a challenge at all. The whole thing was pretty much guiding a statue by using some crappy rod to control it, and the boss was one of the worst in the series. CitS wasn't much different in terms of entertainment, but its boss is actually one of the coolest in the series, which is what prevents me from outright hating the dungeon.

The story of Twilight Princess is completely unoriginal, most things are these days so this isn't that big a problem. However, what really got me was the fact that Twilight Princess starts of almost satisfyingly dark, but then turns around after Arbiter's Grounds. It gets to a point where the built up of the first half of the game falls apart. You will learn that Ganondorf is the real villain behind everything and that Zant will just be thrown aside as a character (but not without making a fool out of himself first). I would've much preferred it if Ganondorf was somehow mentioned a bit nearer to the beginning of the game rather than show up as a surprise. Surprises aren't bad, but that was pretty badly executed in my opinion considering all the build up of Zant's character to just throw him away for Ganondorf.

While I don't find Ganondorf's intro as sudden and forced as most others do, as well as disagree that Ganondorf is the reason Zant was "thrown away" -- it wasn't Ganondorf, it was the fact that they turned Zeant into a total tool at the end of the game and ruined his character -- I do agree that the second half of TP was a huge blunder for the game. That's where it started trying to be too much like OoT and, strongly due to the fact that there was very little story involvement, became stale. Being a rehash of the first half of the game in style (collect two objects, side-mission, collect final object) didn't help it much, either.

Twilight Princess was a great game, however, I found it bland and boring. I could not play it more than twice, and although that is due to my personal tastes I do find some fault in the game itself for that. In addition to this, I do not feel that Twilight Princess contributed the series while it indeed had quite the potential to. This is my biggest disappointment with Twilight Princess; it had such potential that was not realized. So many good ideas that, if expanded, would have made the game fantastic.

I definitely don't find the game bland and boring -- it's my second-favorite game ever made -- but I do agree that it had way too much lost potential. That game had more than enough potential to outdo OoT. Sadly, it wound up losing so much of it that it's not worth comparing an incredible amount to its beloved predecessor.

 

[A Link In Time]

I think the "having a different scale for Zelda games" thing is a bit silly unless you give your least favourite Zelda a 1/10

I must also say that I completely love Twilight Princess, to me, it felt as the most "true" Zelda game since Link to the Past, and while I can agree that it took a lot of elements from Ocarina of Time, my opinion is that it improved on nearly all spots, in a way, it was everything Oot was supposed to be, and for me, it ties for first place (both as Zelda game and Video game in general) with the masterpiece that is Majora's Mask

I completely agree with this. What makes Zelda better than other blockbusters like The Elder Scrolls, Half-Life, Halo, Portal, Mario, God of War, or Metroid?

I definitely don't find the game bland and boring (it's my second-favorite game ever made), but I do agree that it had way too much lost potential. That game had more than enough potential to outdo OoT. Sadly, it wound up losing so much of it that it's not worth comparing an incredible amount to its beloved predecessor.

That's clearly an opinion as well and advances the argument nowhere for both debaters have their own points of view and biases. Another may think that Twilight Princess was a grand expansion to the visions originally advanced by Ocarina of Time.

 

[JuicieJ]

That's clearly an opinion as well and advances the argument nowhere for both debaters have their own points of view and biases. Another may think that Twilight Princess was a grand expansion to the visions originally advanced by Ocarina of Time.

You do realize that I was agreeing with Erebea and that I recognize it's my opinion, right?

 

[A Link In Time]

You do realize that I was agreeing with Erebea and that I recognize it's my opinion, right?

Ah, yes. i should have made two separate replies as that was first was referring mainly to your earlier replies.

 

[Deniro]

I completely agree with this. What makes Zelda better than other blockbusters like The Elder Scrolls, Half-Life, Halo, Portal, Mario, God of War, or Metroid?

that wasn't really what I meant, I meant that it was pretty silly creating your own scale for judging Zelda games and then giving your least favourite 8,5 out of 10