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Spoiler Twilight Princess in the Timeline

Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
Illinois
until I get a game or written timeline disputing my suspicions I will continue to operate under the belief that I MIGHT be right

So the creators saying what happens in the game and specifically say it happens after the child events of OoT doesn't count as a written/spoken dispute against your argument?

You're waiting for a solid dispute against your argument and I have clearly already posted one with ample in game evidence.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
*sigh... it was also said at one time that there was a single timeline... and have there not been multiple false or misleading timelines 'leaked' by so-called insiders? Again.. I may be wrong but I am not convinced. I am sorry but you haven't won me over.

There is a big difference between saying that I MIGHT be or PROBABLY am wrong and saying flat out NO YOU ARE WRONG!! Unless you yourself are a game designer involved in the process you have no business telling me I can't be right. I am only saying it COULD be a certain way... not that it is. I called it a theory not a fact friend.

You see you are trying to PROVE me wrong... the thing is I am not stating that I am right. I just give one interpretation of the evidence. I have never said that TP IS in the adult timeline only that it could be based on in-game material. How about instead of "You are wrong because..." we try "I believe the other theory because..."

Look, I don't mean to be short with you but I feel that I am talking to a wall here. For heavens sake dude.. LIGHTEN UP.... it is a great game but it is still a game. I am not interested in continuing an unproductive debate with someone who is not interested in back and forth but only in shoving their 'facts' down my throat. From what I have seen of your posts if you don't like or agree with something you rail against the theory and whoever posted it. May I suggest that if you do not like speculation you stop reading theory posts........
 
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Zemen

[Insert Funny Statement]
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
Illinois
*sigh... it was also said at one time that there was a single timeline

By single timeline I'm assuming you mean a linear timeline (a.k.a. no split).

You're right, at one point it was said that there was a linear timeline, but this was only until WW was made and after WW was made the split was confirmed. Up until WW, there was a linear timeline. With that in mind, the linear timeline was correct. It's not like after WW was made they kept telling us that things were linear. You made a very moot point by bringing that up.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Actually WW changed the designers plan for the timeline. They retconned the whole thing so technically the split occurrs durring OoT not WW. Who is to say that they won't do the same here and release a game that confirms my theory. Like I said, based on the track record they could, concievably, decide to place TP in the adult timeline and have plenty of material to support themselves.

In short with WW they changed their minds. Unless you read minds you cannot be sure they won't or haven't done it again. Untill they hand you personally a timeline and say this is it... you have just as much chance of being right as the rest of us.
 

Skull_Kid

Bugaboo!
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Location
Portugal
They said that the timeline was linear, before WW, I believe, but, WW changed everything, and they felt the need to split the timeline.
The latter saying is what counts to date, and, as far as I know, Both SHIGGY and EIJI admitted that there was a split... yes, the SPLIT IS REAL.


Also, don't get me wrong, but I think that the Video you showed claiming that the big sword was in fact, the biggoron sword, was absolutely absurd.
So, are you saying that all big swords in Zelda are made By Biggoron?absurd.

Also, the enigmatic execution scene, shows us that, at the beggining, Ganondorf was as surprised as the sages were.
And never forget the term "divine prank", said by one of the sages.
In the Child Timeline, Ganondorf never entered the Temple of Time and never obtained the Triforce of Power, yet, somehow, it was granted to him, before the events of TP
 
Joined
May 16, 2008
Location
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1- Durring the cinematic I mentioned above, Ganondorf survives his execution because of the power of the Triforce of Power. In the "child timeline" Ganondorf never got the Triforce so how could he use it to save himself. And to those who say that once he got it in the future he got it through all time periods, this is rediculous. If this was true then Link and Zelda would have also had their pieces in the past and OoT would have been a much different game.

It is described in TP that Ganondorf acquired his piece of the Triforce "by some divine prank". So like Zemen said above, he doesn't know how he got it, and really neither does anyone else. The word "divine" usually applies to the work of a god or goddess. So my guess is that the goddesses placed the power of the Triforce into Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf by the time of his execution anyway. It is said throughout one of the games, maybe multiple games, that there are three chosen to hold the Triforce. These three are the different generations of Link, Zelda, and finally, the one and only Ganondorf.

2- Several very distinct references are made throughout TP which point to its placement in the "adult timeline".
First, at the beginning you get the Hero's Clothes which it strongly implies were once worn by the Link in OoT. But if this was the "child timeline", there was Hero of Time. If Ganondorf was executed before he could conquer Hyrule, then the events of OoT never happened and Link was just Link if you catch my meaning. The only one who would have known that Link was anything but a 'forest boy' was Zelda. Furthermore, Link in OoT didn't recieve his Hero's Clothes until he was an adult. So they would never have existed in the "child timeline".

Like some above posts mentioned as well, young Link was a hero in his own right. Zemen mentioned that it did not mention the Hero of Time specifically, on the "hero". However, I believe that the story of the Hero of Time is still known to the people of Hyrule even in the Child Timeline. The intro to Wind Waker tells of the Hero traveling through time to save Hyrule. I would assume that by young Link telling Zelda, who informs the King, of Ganondorf's plans, he had to have mentioned that he went through time to do so. I doubt Link only said "Ganondorf is a bad guy", to Zelda. He probably told her of his entire adventure, which was passed down through legend.

Second, when you recieve the Zora's Tunic in TP Rutela says her husband, King Zora, made them for a great hero. this didn't happen until Link in OoT was an adult. So if this happened in the "child timeline", these could not possibly have been made for the Hero of Time.

That is a good point. But the Zora Tunic appears very different from the one in OoT. Maybe they just wanted to add details to it, who knows. Some people speculate that the King Zora mentioned in TP is a different one from the King Zora in OoT, which is possible. There was a King Zora in OoA as well. But that would cause a problem with the timeline if it were talking about the Hero of Time. One thing though, is that the Zora Tunic in OoT wasn't actually made by King Zora. The tunic already existed. You could even buy one in the shop in Zora's Domain. King Zora simply gave one to Link.

And Third, we see the Biggoron Sword on display in Hyrule castle in TP. This sword was not completed and used by the Hero of Time until he was an adult. Again, this item would not exist in the "child timeline".

Most likely a cameo. If it were the actual Biggoron Sword, and had any symbolic value or relativity to the timeline or the Hero of Time, they would have put a description below it. Besides, there are notable differences in the Biggoron Sword and the one shown in the castle. But I would think that they intended it to be the Biggoron Sword, strictly making a cameo appearance.

Oh and Fourth, the fishing hole in TP has a picture of the master fisherman from OoT holding the Hylian Loach caught by Link, which didn't happen until he was an adult.

Honestly, I can't say that I remember this. I didn't spend a whole lot of time in the fishing place in TP, nor have I ever actually fished in the game. But if it just showed a picture of the fisherman holding the Hylian Loach, with no description, anyone could have caught it. The fisherman himself could have caught it.

The idea that TP comes on the Child Timeline, opposite of WW, is quite obvious to me. There are more things that point to it being where most believe it is than things that may barely cause it to appear on the Adult Timeline. For example, the whole excecution scene would not have taken place had Ganondorf been locked away in the Evil Realm as he was at the end of OoT. This event, taking place on the Adult Timeline, was proven to be consistent until he managed to escape, which caused the events of WW. If TP took place on the AT, then technically, it would have to come before WW, which would then cause WW's backstory and multiple elements connecting it to the AT of OoT, useless. And we know for a fact that WW comes on the Adult Timeline after OoT because of countless references made throughout OoT, such as the main factor of the Hero of Time not returning. He didn't return because he was sent back through time. Link never went back forward through time afterwards, and he sure wasn't stuck in Termina because he left after defeating Majora. The final scene of the game shows Link on Epona back in the Lost Woods.

Another big thing is the Sages. They have no specific features like the ones in the Adult Timeline of OoT do. That is because the Sages did not have to awaken in Saria, Darunia, Ruto, etc., in the Child Timeline, because the Temples throughout Hyrule never became infested with evil. Whenever Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm and claimed the Triforce, it is said that the realm became a place of evil. I believe this comes from some text in WW. Anyway, the Sages protect the temples, and the temples are linked with the Sacred Realm. The sages had to awaken in those people from OoT because of Ganondorf entering the SR and causing all the evil to get into the temples. That is why the stained glass in Hyrule Castle in WW, where the Master Sword is held, shows the Sages as they were from OoT; because they were awakened as such on the Adult Timeline. Had these Sages not been awakened, they would have kept their original form, which is showin in TP. And of course, in the Child Timeline, they were not awakened, which is why they appear the way they do in TP.

Last, a main selling point is the location of the Master Sword. Before TP, we saw this blade play big roles in OoT and ALttP. In OoT, it was located in the Temple of Time. In ALttP, it was in the Lost Woods for some odd reason. By the time TP comes out, we see the Master Sword in the ruins of the Temple of Time, where the Lost Woods have apparently extended onto. So if you are convinced by geographical changes, this is a key point:

*Master Sword in pedestal in Temple of Time at end of OoT
-Some hundred years later, Lost Woods grow around the Temple of Time, which has fallen apart
**Master Sword in pedestal in Temple of Time ruins, becoming the Lost Woods
-Some hundred years later again, ruins are completely gone. Lost Woods have grown extensively, only the pedestal now remains.
***Master Sword in pedestal in Lost Woods

Also, you say that the developers could easily come back and change their minds about the timeline, making it linear again or possibly putting TP on the Adult Timeline. I have give my reasons why TP can't go on the AT. For the developers to change their minds now about the split would be rediculous. It would cause way too many problems with the games.

This is how the linear timeline supposidly looked prior to the split

OoT/MM--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX or OoT/MM--ALttP/LA--OoX--LoZ/AoL

With the Oracles changing their position, since they are still pretty much up for debate and can go either place. These were the only games before WW, and it is easy enough to make a timeline without WW at this point. After Ganondorf was sealed in the Evil Realm at the end of OoT, Link went back in time to Termina, then that was it for that Link. Later on, Ganondorf, still sealed away, turns the SR into the Dark World. That causes ALttP, followed by LA. Later, Ganon is attempted to be revived by Twinrova in OoX. That doesn't work. Then later he shows up in LoZ somehow. Or just switch those last two sentences around for the second version of the linear timeline.

Now when you throw WW into that mix, then your saying that Ganondorf actually escaped prior to ALttP. The story suddenly begins focusing on what happened after Link went back through time. Ganondorf escaped, and Link was not there. It put an entirely new story in there between OoT and ALttP, which has to be fitted in that position. ALttP now cannot come after WW because Hyrule is gone. That makes the split official. But even if you still weren't swayed by WW, you have TP to come out, and clearly shows what happens after the events of the Child Timeline, which even further solidifies the idea of the split timeline. You have TP, a game that fits easily between OoT and ALttP on the Child Timeline because of various reasons mentioned above.
 
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Eiji Aonuma has said that Twilight Princess and Wind Waker take place in different timelines.
What he says is canon, end of story.
 
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Ok.. so here goes.. I have never once claimed or implied that I deny a split timeline so I will not argue that point. I said that the split timeline resulted from a change of heart by the designers and that future changes might result in the alteration of many of our ideas and notions. I do not and have not implied that they would ever do away with a split time line.

Second I am not saying that all big swords are made by biggoron. I said that I believe it could be interpretted as Biggoron's Sword. For the designers to put a sword identical to it in the game they must have had a reason. Maybe it is to imply a link between games. Or it could be a 'cameo'. I repeat that I have never said that my theory IS FACT. I have only said it is possible based on certain pieces of evidence.

Now Darklink01 I have to say that you have made a good and thourough argument without being ignorant or overly forceful and I appreciate it. I bow to your knowledge of lore. I only have a minor correction. I never said they could make the timeline linear again. I meant to imply that future canon changes are possible because the plans of the designers are constantly evolving.

And Midna... I never said they couldn't exist oon seperate timelines. I suggested that they MIGHT be on opposite sides of the existing timeline.. ie WW on the child timeline and TP on the adult timeline...... Again though, not a statement of what I persieve to be fact only a theory
 
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Eiji Aonuma has said that Twilight Princess and Wind Waker take place in different timelines.
What he says is canon, end of story.
^This. This gives us EVERY SINGLE RIGHT to say that we are 100% correct and that you are wrong.

*sigh... it was also said at one time that there was a single timeline... and have there not been multiple false or misleading timelines 'leaked' by so-called insiders? Again.. I may be wrong but I am not convinced. I am sorry but you haven't won me over.

There is a big difference between saying that I MIGHT be or PROBABLY am wrong and saying flat out NO YOU ARE WRONG!! Unless you yourself are a game designer involved in the process you have no business telling me I can't be right. I am only saying it COULD be a certain way... not that it is. I called it a theory not a fact friend.
Ok. Would you appreciate it if I said that at this point in time you have a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% chance of being wrong?

At this point in time you are wrong. Eiji Aonuma, the current director of the series, and Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of the series who is still important, have both said on multiple occassions that there is a split timeline.

You're being stupid (I'm not saying you are stupid. Just saying what you're doing now is stupid. (just needed to make sure you and the mods understood that since the modship here is much tigher than that of ZI or, hell, ZU).

It's fact. The Earth is round. That's a fact. I can believe in a theory that states that the Earth is flat. But at the end of the day the Earth is still round.
EDIT: Damn it it makes it seem like I misunderstood your argument... that's what I get for skimming lol. I might reedit this post if I end up thoroughly reading your OP, but for now I might as well keep this as my post for all people who don't believe the split timeline.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
9) Opinions. Remember, this is a community forum and there will always be different opinions. All members are entitled to their own opinion as long as it does not break any rules. (Rule #4, don't flame somebody for having a different opinion). Especially take this into account within the Theorizing area of the forums, as well as the Mature Discussion. In both cases, there are hardly ever any concrete answers and things can always be interpreted differently. Let's try to be fair towards all members while also be constructive.

Making sure we are all aware of the rules her... Again it isn't that you disagree with me that bothers me but the tone being used.... it is possible to disagree without being ignorant.. I am not an idiot kid who gets intimidated when names on a web-page get forceful and use big words at me... I am married and have kids and in the end I have way better things to do with my time then get talked down to by people who don't know me..

I repeat for the last time..... I AM NOT MAKING STATEMENTS OF FACT BUT GIVING ONE POSSIBLE THEORY... I HAVE NOT EVER SAID THAT I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG... I ONLY PUT DOWN MY OBSERVATIONS AND ONE INTRIGUING INTERPRETATION OF THEM... I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT THE PEOPLE MAKING THE GAMES ARE WRONG ONLY THAT THEY HAVE, IN THE PAST CHANGED THEIR MINDS OR ALTERED THEIR PLANS TO ACCOMMODATE NEW MATERIAL (IE THEY CREATED THE SPLIT TIMELINE BECAUSE IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO EXPLAIN WIND WAKER'S PLACE IN THE MYTHOS)...

Ok, so to recap, I don't mean to be argumentative but I resent being talked to as if I am an idiot.... In the end I am not impressed by anyone who feels to need to try to belittle me with their vast knowledge of a video game. I would like to maintain a possitive relationship with anyone willing to be mature. I appreciate and acknowledge the statements of the ZELDA gods who provide us with these wonderful games. I do not and have not at any point declared them to be wrong. The fact is that sometimes what they say and what they do are not the same. I repeat for the last time that I only gave you a theory and a theory is in no way a declaration of fact and in fact is not even neccesarily a declaration of what I believe. I do not have to believe a theory to think it is interesting..... At this time I place Twilight Princess on the child timeline however I for one would not be surprised if a future instalment placed it on the adult timeline instead.

Finaly, to those who keep arguing the split vs. linear thing... I AGREE that there is a split! I never said that there wasn't and I never said that they could or would change it. Please read my posts carefully beforeresponding. I can not tolerate being misquoted.
 
Joined
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Your OP is extremely misleading because you act as if you believe in TP on the AT... I assume that's where most of this is coming from (I have yet to read all of your posts in this thread... sorry I thought that when the title talks about the placement of a confirmed game, the OP talking about a CT placement, etc, that it would have been very repetitive to read all the other posts when looking at the last post it seems to be talking about your belief in TP on the CT I assumed that you did believe in that... (good god that was one bad run-on sentence...)). It'd be great to edit the OP to make it more clear that you are stating a "possible" theory instead of what you believe.

Sorry if I was rude. I just really, really, hate it when people talk about the linear timeline and still believe in it. So sorry if I was rude in the process of trying to correct your beliefs, or what I thought were your beliefs.
 

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