Timeline Theories

[Platinum Princess]

You're correct that BotW has stuff from all 3 timelines, making it difficult to place. However, unifying all 3 timelines is impossible. The AT and CT timelines run concurrently to each other.The DT on the other hand doesn't since it's kind of a "what if" scenario. If Link is defeated in the battle with Ganon, then Zelda doesn't send Link back- no split.

"There is some evidence for this timeline. First, there are some locations that are seen only in the failed hero timeline. Spectacle Rock, a particular rock formation that looks like a pair of spectacles, is one of those locations (if you want to see it, the Gerudo Desert Tower is on one spectacle, and Vah Naboris rests on the other spectacle after completing it)."

Well Wind Waker does have Spectacle Island.

My question is, how do we know when it's meant to be connected timelines and when it's a simple easter egg? Sometimes the easter eggs can mess with things too.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I'm at the point where I'm ignoring official confirmations from Nintendo.

Well, you're entitled to be wrong.

I am not fond of the split timeline. I think having Ganon forced into a cycle of meeting a new Link and Zelda is fascinating, but I would have liked it to be a trip through history in proper order.

It's three separate histories that branch off from a single one that each have a proper order, so it's not a big difference.

Also, how would TP and TWW for example fit in the same timeline, especially regarding the ending to OoT?

 

[Platinum Princess]

Well, you're entitled to be wrong.



It's three separate histories that branch off from a single one that each have a proper order, so it's not a big difference.

Also, how would TP and TWW for example fit in the same timeline, especially regarding the ending to OoT?

Oh I mean if they had not done a split timeline. If it was my call, I would have chosen to progress the years. I can't take any of these games and connect them all to one timeline. That's when your head implodes.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Oh I mean if they had not done a split timeline. If it was my call, I would have chosen to progress the years.

Oh.

Well, fair enough.

 

[DekuNut]

Well, you're entitled to be wrong.

So are you
We're both wrong in the eyes of the other because we use conflicting sets of information. Neither of us are necessarily wrong; it's simply that our differing mindsets on the matter leave us in vastly different positions

 

[DekuNut]

Admittedly, I worded my position badly. Hyrule Historia isn't really a confirmation of the timeline from Nintendo. It's an outsourced piece of work given the sign-off by Aonouma. It's effectively no better than a Prima strategy guide in that effect. Even in HE, HH is referred to as a guidebook by Shogakukan. Just like this. There is no difference between the two. I see no reason to refer to the Historia as canon given the background it has.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Admittedly, I worded my position badly. Hyrule Historia isn't really a confirmation of the timeline from Nintendo. It's an outsourced piece of work given the sign-off by Aonouma. It's effectively no better than a Prima strategy guide in that effect. Even in HE, HH is referred to as a guidebook by Shogakukan. Just like this. There is no difference between the two. I see no reason to refer to the Historia as canon given the background it has.

Considering the fact that Aonuma said that books like the Encyclopedia revealed the timeline, it seems like it is meant to be canon.

 

[DekuNut]

Considering the fact that Aonuma said that books like the Encyclopedia revealed the timeline, it seems like it is meant to be canon.

Aonuma isn't the end-all be-all for the Zelda franchise. Yes, he produces the games, but he doesn't write the stories. They have specific writers for that. Aonouma's job is so much bigger than that, and it's kind of obvious that the story is not the first priority of the producers and directors (which isn't a diss at all; gameplay should definitley come first, and elements like atmosphere and theme are just as important as the story details, if not moreso as well). As such, he doesn't know the games perfectly, and isn't necessarily the final arbiter for any piece of judgement. This video from Extra Credits explains this "Auteur Myth" more eloquently than I ever could:

Not only that, but he was the only person related to the creation of the games to work on Hyrule Historia, as far as I'm aware. None of the writers were brought in to clean it up or anything similar. Plus, later writers, such as in A Link Between Worlds, didn't use the Historia as inspiration. They blatantly ignored it in fact. In the Link Between Worlds intro, they discussed the first time the Triforce was sealed in the Sacred Realm. We know it was the first time it was sealed away, because before that the Triforce was "kept in Hyrule". It also says that the Royal Family requested that the sages seal away the Triforce. However, Hyrule Historia lists the founding of Hyrule as happening after the creation of the Sacred Realm, meaning there was no Royal Family at the time to request it of them.
So are you suggesting that HH is more canon than a game that came out after it?

 

[Moblinking5000]

Aonuma isn't the end-all be-all for the Zelda franchise. Yes, he produces the games, but he doesn't write the stories. They have specific writers for that.

So, Aonuma is a compulsive liar, then?

Besides, the official NoJ site, Zelda Portal, even has the official timeline on it.

In the Link Between Worlds intro, they discussed the first time the Triforce was sealed in the Sacred Realm. We know it was the first time it was sealed away, because before that the Triforce was "kept in Hyrule". It also says that the Royal Family requested that the sages seal away the Triforce. However, Hyrule Historia lists the founding of Hyrule as happening after the creation of the Sacred Realm, meaning there was no Royal Family at the time to request it of them.

They're presented as legends. One of the guards even say, ''I wish I could go back in time to see if things really happened that way'', or something along those lines to hint at there being inaccuracies.

 

[DekuNut]

So, Aonuma is a compulsive liar, then?

No, he simply suggested what he believed. But, as I said, he is not the final arbiter for these things. He himself even admitted to not knowing a ton about the lore, and that other people know more than him on the topic

Aonuma
Ikuta-san is extremely into The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. If you ask her about The Legend of Zelda, a flood of opinions pours forth!

Iwata
She's a walking dictionary of Zelda lore! (laughs) Does she know more than you, Aonuma-san?

Aonuma
Yes, I think so. You could say she's a walking specifications manual! (laughs) We used her thoughts to check whether what players of the original game experienced was present in the new one.

Source: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/zelda-ocarina-of-time/3/0

He doesn't even understand the ending to Twilight Princess, by his own admission.

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/eiji-...d-of-zelda-twilight-princess-in-a-miiverse-i#
I still do respect Aonuma. I just think he isn't the one who gets to make these decisions. And honestly, I don't think any one person is. If more people from the games worked on HH - a full team of writers - I may be more inclined, but as it stands, that's not happening.

Besides, the official NoJ site, Zelda Portal, even has the official timeline on it.

That website says Ganon was resurected during LttP, implying he was dead before, which is blatantly incorrect, no matter who you ask. Even in the game's backstory - and even both HH and HE - he was never stated to have died or been resurrected. Instead, he was simply sealed while in the corrupted sacred realm

They're presented as legends. One of the guards even say, ''I wish I could go back in time to see if things really happened that way'', or something along those lines to hint at there being inaccuracies.

Discussing this out-of-universe, not in-universe, the writers included every line in that intro for a reason. Each and every word had a purpose, so it would give the proper knowledge to the players of the game. From a real world perspective, we have no reason to question those backstories because of that fact.
Also, that quote in-game was slightly different.

He didn't question if it happened that way; he questioned it it happened at all. There is an important difference there. Not to mention the fact that those lines are very different in Japanese.

That first line is retranslated as "Have you seen the paintings in the great hall? They depict Hyrule's most famous legend... such a great tale...". It's similar, but with a few minor differences, most notably replacing "oldest" with "most famous".
The second line doesn't really have a direct line of translation into English, but in no way references truth or anything like that. The line you quoted was made up by NoA since they had to put something there. Therefore, in the Japanese version of the game, written by the actual writers of the series, they in no way question the validity of the story.
That said, the way you're talking about this answers my previous question:

So are you suggesting that HH is more canon than a game that came out after it?

It seems you think so.

 

[Moblinking5000]

No, he simply suggested what he believed. But, as I said, he is not the final arbiter for these things. He himself even admitted to not knowing a ton about the lore, and that other people know more than him on the topic

Source: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/zelda-ocarina-of-time/3/0

He doesn't even understand the ending to Twilight Princess, by his own admission.

Not knowing the detail of one scene=/=not having access to the major facts that outline the timeline. He's the producer, making him high ranking in the hierarchy. If he says that OoT was retconned by an episode of Seinfeld, then so be it. He also said that ALBW is between Link's Awakening and before the NES games in an interview at the time ALBW was released.

That website says Ganon was resurected during LttP, implying he was dead before, which is blatantly incorrect, no matter who you ask. Even in the game's backstory - and even both HH and HE - he was never stated to have died or been resurrected. Instead, he was simply sealed while in the corrupted sacred realm

One, I was talking about the JAPANESE website; you're bringing up the NoA site. NoJ makes the games, and have never been guilty of what NoA did in the previous websites; Two, here's the definition of ressurection:

The act of bringing something that had disappeared or ended back into use or existence: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/resurrection

Ganon disappeared from Hyrule when he was sealed in the SR.

In regards to the pictures above, they just say that playing the game is a crime outside of Japan. Also, Fi said that legends are not reliable in SS when you first meet her, and the Triforce has been kept in Hyrule multiple times, including the end of ALttP, and the people who told the sages to seal the realm most likely became the RF; do you really think they would split hairs to say ''the people who became the RF''?

 

[DekuNut]

Not knowing the detail of one scene=/=not having access to the major facts that outline the timeline. He's the producer, making him high ranking in the hierarchy. If he says that OoT was retconned by an episode of Seinfeld, then so be it.

It shows that he doesn't know everything, so things he says should be taken with a grain of salt. He has the possibility to be wrong. He's very open about this fact. Besides, even as a producer, his job isn't about the story. His job is about the game, and the story is only a small portion of that. There are other people who would be much more able to speak on the matter, since the story is the entirety of their jobs. It's the thing they know, and they know it better than anyone else.

He also said that ALBW is between Link's Awakening and before the NES games in an interview at the time ALBW was released.

I'm not sure how that's relevant? It seems pretty obvious even without anyone stating it.

One, I was talking about the JAPANESE website; you're bringing up the NoA site. NoJ makes the games, and have never been guilty of what NoA did in the previous websites

Okay I'll give you that. The English site - and honestly most English translations in this series in general - are terrible when trying to pick apart lore.

Two, here's the definition of ressurection:

The act of bringing something that had disappeared or ended back into use or existence: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/resurrection

Ganon disappeared from Hyrule when he was sealed in the SR.

Just quoting this so we can recognize that I read it, but I won't bother trying to refute it since we both seem to agree that the English version of the website sucks, and this is specifically stuff from the English website. Therefore the exact wording is kinda irrelevant to the debate now.

In regards to the pictures above, they just say that playing the game is a crime outside of Japan.

Wait what? I'm... fairly sure that's incorrect. I had a guy who speaks Japanese come in to look at them for me, plus checking through the basic outlines of those statements on Google Translate (though that is not where the exact quotes came from). If you're referring to another picture, then I'm just completely lost.

Also, Fi said that legends are not reliable in SS when you first meet her

No, she says that oral history is not reliable, not legends. Which makes sense. Oral history is like a game of telephone - things will change through the generations for one reason or another. It is indeed the least reliable form of transmitting information I can think of. However, written history is more firm. It doesn't change unless someone rewrites it, and even then the source material they're drawing from is still much better. And, as can be seen from those paintings, that was not oral history. Everything Link read was written below the paintings. Therefore, Fi's words don't take affect in this case unless you can prove those words were based specifically on oral history.

the Triforce has been kept in Hyrule multiple times, including the end of ALttP

That is definitely true. However, it was not sealed in the sacred realm when Ganondorf got the entire Triforce in the Downfall ending of Ocarina. It was in the light world, and they were both sealed there together by the sages by their own volition. As far as I can tell, that is the scene that the ALBW backstory is supposedly talking about. It can't be the Link to the Past ending, since Ganon doesn't show up until after the sealing.

The people who told the sages to seal the realm most likely became the RF; do you really think they would split hairs to say ''the people who became the RF''?

If they weren't the Royal Family, why bother even saying that? Why not just say that the sages sealed the Triforce away and leave it at that? It would've been much easier than lying about who told them to do so. The game specifically said the Royal Family asked them to, so there's no reason to think that they weren't the Royal Family.

 

[el :BeoWolf:]

It shows that he doesn't know everything, so things he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

This reminds me of Akira Toriyama. The man is know for being forgetful and goes to show we shouldn't rely on what the creator says 100%

it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

Just cause you're the creator doesn't mean everything you say goes. People aren't perfect and are bound to forget details later on. Zelda has quite a bit of lore to remember from its history, so details are certainly going to be missed or forgotten.

I think something's up with your images there btw.

 

[DekuNut]

This reminds me of Akira Toriyama. The man is know for being forgetful and goes to show we shouldn't rely on what the creator says 100%

Just cause you're the creator doesn't mean everything you say goes. People aren't perfect and are bound to forget details later on. Zelda has quite a bit of lore to remember from its history, so details are certainly going to be missed or forgotten.

I think something's up with your images there btw.

Wait what the hell? They look different for me

 

[Moblinking5000]

It shows that he doesn't know everything, so things he says should be taken with a grain of salt. He has the possibility to be wrong. He's very open about this fact. Besides, even as a producer, his job isn't about the story. His job is about the game, and the story is only a small portion of that. There are other people who would be much more able to speak on the matter, since the story is the entirety of their jobs. It's the thing they know, and they know it better than anyone else.

He's spoken about the split timeline at length before.

And noone has come out and said, ''hur hur the HH/HE timeline is wrong''.

Also, why should I take anything you, a fan, have to say seriously over someone who is a part of Nintendo?

Your timeline has no official backing. Mine does.

Also, the ALBW intro says that the Triforce was once kept in Hyrule BEFORE it delves into the legend proper, as an introduction.

Imagine if I said:

''This is the story of Einstein, who once discovered a theory known as the theory of relativity'' and then began at the beginning of his life when he was a baby, am I saying that he discovered the theory of relativity before he was born?

Also, the Triforce was kept in Hyrule at the end of SS, too, and was hidden in the SR before the Era of Chaos; It wasn't sealed in the SR until the Era of Chaos, though.