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Timeline Theories

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Dec 11, 2011
My question is, how do we know when it's meant to be connected timelines and when it's a simple easter egg? Sometimes the easter eggs can mess with things too.

I think the developers intended it to be based on where you want it which is why, other than OoT and a games before it, there aren't that many specific, detailed references to other branches. If say you think it should be in the AT because of the WW references, then the other subtle references to the CT and DT can easily be explained away and vice versa.

It's really up to you, pick your favorite timeline and put BotW there. The whole marketing of BotW was about doing things your way, your path. Mine happens to be the CT because it has, in my opinion, the 2 best games post split in MM and TP and there are enough references in BotW for it to work out.
 

DekuNut

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He's spoken about the split timeline at length before.
Yes, but just because he spoke about it doesn't inherently make it right or wrong. It just means he spoke about it.

And noone has come out and said, ''hur hur the HH/HE timeline is wrong''.
Just because they haven't said it doesn't mean it's right. It just means they haven't said anything.

Also, why should I take anything you, a fan, have to say seriously over someone who is a part of Nintendo?
I'm not expecting you to take what I'm saying without question. I'm debating with you for a reason - I want my words to have some form of logical backing behind them. You can choose whether or not you think that my logic is sound based on these debates. The fact that someone is part of Nintendo doesn't in itself make them a wellspring of information. You wouldn't ask a programmer about the most recent developments in the sound department; Aonouma has made it clear that story is not his main priority, so we shouldn't be asking him about story. This “someone from Nintendo” didn’t write the stories; he doesn’t even seem concerned about oversight beyond the broad strokes, and has openly admitted to wanting to forget about the timeline books

Your timeline has no official backing. Mine does.
And I'm saying that your "official" backing as any more canon than mine is, because Aonouma is fallible and not, in my opinion, in a place to have his words be taken as gospel.

Also, the ALBW intro says that the Triforce was once kept in Hyrule BEFORE it delves into the legend proper, as an introduction.
The way I read it is that they were describing the state of the Triforce before the whole kerfuffle with Ganon. Simply stating that that was the state at a time in the distant past I guess is possible, but then it wouldn't really make sense in my opinion to cover a time that far back when it's not the point of the story, and is only somewhat related.

Imagine if I said:

''This is the story of Einstein, who once discovered a theory known as the theory of relativity'' and then began at the beginning of his life when he was a baby, am I saying that he discovered the theory of relativity before he was born?
No, but you're telling your story in a way that doesn't really make sense.There are much clearer ways to tell it, and generally the Zelda backstories have clear

Also, the Triforce was kept in Hyrule at the end of SS, too, and was hidden in the SR before the Era of Chaos; It wasn't sealed in the SR until the Era of Chaos, though.
Yes, but that isn't disproving at all what I said. It was held in Hyrule after SS, and it wasn't sealed there for some time, until closer to Ocarina.

The fact of the matter is, I see no reason why HH should be strictly taken as canon. Its story doesn't fit with the games that have come before or since, it didn't involve the people who actually write the Zelda games, and even if you believe Aonouma's word is law, he himself states WITHIN THE HISTORIA that the book itself isn't perfect.
While reading over “The Full History of Hyrule,” it’s possible that some parts may look contradictory. For instance, the Mogma race or the beetle item that appear on the very first story do not appear on any other game that takes place in the future. I’d like to ask everyone just to enjoy the book and to be broad-minded, and to think that those parts are the way they are because of the way Zelda games are developed.
(I'm not at home atm, so I don't have my copy to quote, so there's a fan translation from before the book was localized)
We're meant to enjoy the book, and take it as a way to consider the games - but that doesn't necessarily mean the book is infallible, perfect, or even necessarily the true canon. Indeed, that quote implies that the timeline within the book may be changed as time goes on because of later games that come out changing the world of Hyrule as we know it, as the timeline has changed, time and time again, for the last 33 years. It the canon that Nintendo uses is constantly changing, how can we truly trust any single "canln" timeline?
Therefore, even if you say Aonouma's word is gospel, then you shouldn't be taking the HH as strict canon, because even then he undermines the book himself.
(Accidentally posted this while it was unfinished, so sorry if it doesnt seem quite fully formed)
 
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Yes, but just because he spoke about it doesn't inherently make it right or wrong. It just means he spoke about it.

He outright explained how it worked about the time when TWW was out, and explained it again in 2006 after TP came out; Aonuma didn't just mention it for a sentence and move on to something else. How would he do that if he doesn't know anything about the lore?

Just because they haven't said it doesn't mean it's right. It just means they haven't said anything.

The official JAPANESE site has it, so that in itself is a big statement.

You wouldn't ask a programmer about the most recent developments in the sound department;
Does that mean that the programmer doesn't know what the sounds/music for the game sounds like? No. Common sense dictates that someone who is heavily involved with the game would know the sounds/music, as sound is a major part of any game, pretty much, especially a series like Zelda known for its soundtracks.

And I'm saying that your "official" backing as any more canon than mine is, because Aonouma is fallible and not, in my opinion, in a place to have his words be taken as gospel

The only proof that you posted earlier was about Zant's Neck snap thing, which doesn't mean that the doesn't know the order of the games[especially since beyond Zant mocking Ganon and, any deeper meaning is ambiguous), and him being humble about someone knowing more about Zelda lore, which doesn't mean much considering the fact that humility is a big part of Japanese culture.

and even if you believe Aonouma's word is law, he himself states WITHIN THE HISTORIA that the book itself isn't perfect.

Not perfect=/=non canon.

All media with over arcing timelines have plotholes at some point, and you don't see people pointing and saying ''the timeline is wrong''. It's ridiculous that Zelda is treated differently.

I can accept plotholes alot easier than going against official statements.

Also...

, but you're telling your story in a way that doesn't really make sense.There are much clearer ways to tell it, and generally the Zelda backstories have clear

It's pretty clear to me. I see nothing wrong with the way I told that story. It makes perfect sense; Einstein created the theory of relativity, which is one of his known accomplishments, so it's a good ''lure'' to get people interested in learning more. I can't think of a better way of telling it.

It the canon that Nintendo uses is constantly changing, how can we truly trust any single "canln" timeline?

Whether it'll be retconned down the line is irrelevant to the current state of canon. Once we know about any new changes, then we'll update our understanding accordingly, but I won't base current knowledge on hypothetical changes until we know what they are.
 
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DekuNut

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He outright explained how it worked about the time when TWW was out, and explained it again in 2006 after TP came out; Aonuma didn't just mention it for a sentence and move on to something else. How would he do that if he doesn't know anything about the lore?
I'm not saying he doesn't konw anything. You have to know at least large swatchs to be in his position. My point is he doesn't know everything and is not in charge of creating said story.


The official JAPANESE site has it, so that in itself is a big statement.
Which was written by...?

Does that mean that the programmer doesn't know what the sounds/music for the game sounds like? No. Common sense dictates that someone who is heavily involved with the game would know the sounds/music, as sound is a major part of any game, pretty much, especially a series like Zelda known for its soundtracks.
They'd probably know some of the major tunes, but they may not know, say, the sound that the current iteration of Tingle makes upon talking to him. Nor would they know exactly what was going on in said department at the time. They'd be involved, and they'd know some, but there would be far better people to ask.

[QUOTE}The only proof that you posted earlier was about Zant's Neck snap thing, which doesn't mean that the doesn't know the order of the games[especially since beyond Zant mocking Ganon and, any deeper meaning is ambiguous), and him being humble about someone knowing more about Zelda lore, which doesn't mean much considering the fact that humility is a big part of Japanese culture.[/QUOTE]
He knows the order of the games in his mind; but just because he himself believes that to be the order does not necessarily make it the only possible correct order.

Not perfect=/=non canon.
Sad but true.

All media with over arcing timelines have plotholes at some point, and you don't see people pointing and saying ''the timeline is wrong''. It's ridiculous that Zelda is treated differently.

I can accept plotholes alot easier than going against official statements.

Also...



It's pretty clear to me. I see nothing wrong with the way I told that story. It makes perfect sense; Einstein created the theory of relativity, which is one of his known accomplishments, so it's a good ''lure'' to get people interested in learning more. I can't think of a better way of telling it.
And with this your metaphor is moving away from your initial point. There's a slim chance that the Triforce being in Hyrule at one point was a "lure". What's alluring about that fact? What would get people in the real world interested about the Triforce being in Hyrule? If you wanted a lure, there's a million more interesting things to say. Say where it came from. Say what it does. But they instead chose to say it was in Hyrule. In the case of your Einstein story, it works fine, because that is something that would interest a great number of people; but I don't feel like that same logic carries over to the case in ALBW.

How about I use some more direct words from Aonuma?
When we start to work on a new Zelda, we of course think about all this timeline stuff. Nintendo has a lot of IPs today. And Shigeru Miyamoto asks that we do our best to keep the timeline coherent. So we do it. But honestly, when we start to think of a new Zelda, respecting the timeline is a constraint for us. We would like to be free to imagine whatever we want without having to worry about the timeline. Being able to create while still keeping Zelda's essence, and bring new things to the table. Except now when we think of a new idea, we have to wonder "OK, but where does it fit in the timeline ?" and it instantly becomes very complicated ! And sometimes, we can't do these new ideas because it wouldn't fit in the timeline ! So, for the creative teams, it's an hindrance. Yeah, we published a timeline in a book but among our staff, we would like to be able to stop thinking about it... What's funny is to see the fans debate where BoTW fits in the timeline. But history has been written by historians that have been able to establish an order of events. Except no one is really sure everything happened in this exact order ! Anyways, when it comes to the Zelda timeline, I'm of the opinion that it's for the players to debate, and to imagine themselves the order of events !
This comes from an interview with Siphano, a French YouTuber, posted in August 2017. I'll link the video here: https://youtu.be/I_zixSwJkeY
Admittedly, I can't speak or read French. So I'm relying on a third party translator translating it into English. Said translation can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/truezelda/comments/6rtbh7/aonuma_on_how_they_view_the_timeline_when_making/
The comments don't seem to be questioning the translation, and it's usually a very detail-focused subreddit, so I'm inclined to trust it.

Let's go over the words Aonuma said in that interview one more time,namely this line:
Anyways, when it comes to the Zelda timeline, I'm of the opinion that it's for the players to debate, and to imagine themselves the order of events !
If you say what Aonuma says is true - that if he were to say that OoT could be replaced by an episode of Seinfeld and you'd accept it as canon - then you should listen to these words too.
Anouma is annoyed by the timeline. It holds the games - and his ideas - back. He'd like to forget about it while making his games.
And, more importantly, he would rather that we determine the order of events for ourselves. Not him, not Dark Horse Comics, us. The players. The fans. You. Me. Firece_Deity. It's up to us to decide how we think the games should go.
So if you want to continue believing in the HH timeline? Be my guest. But this should prove, going by your own logic, that those books are simply one way to view the franchise, and not the only way.
 
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I'm not saying he doesn't konw anything. You have to know at least large swatchs to be in his position. My point is he doesn't know everything and is not in charge of creating said stories.
So, how do you decide what he does and doesn't know?

Which was written by...?

Someone from Nintendo of Japan, obviously. And it would be unprofessional if NoJ allowed false information onto the website, no?

And with this your metaphor is moving away from your initial point. There's a slim chance that the Triforce being in Hyrule at one point was a "lure". What's alluring about that fact? What would get people in the real world interested about the Triforce being in Hyrule? If you wanted a lure, there's a million more interesting things to say.

Wouldn't it be fascinating if a powerful relic created by the gods was kept in the mortal world at some point?

f you say what Aonuma says is true - that if he were to say that OoT could be replaced by an episode of Seinfeld and you'd accept it as canon - then you should listen to these words too.

He said it was his opinion; he didn't say that it was his opinion, on the other hand, when it came to the whole ''the books revealed the timeline'' statement.

he would rather that we determine the order of events for ourselves.
Since the official timeline adheres to every placement revealed in interviews or ingame or both, and is the only timeline to have SOME sort of official support[regardless of how much of Aonuma's official support is valid according to you, not to mention the aforementioned NoJ site], as I haven't seen anyone whether Aonuma or someone higher up in the ''story'' hierarchy give credence to your timeline, that is the order of events I've determined to be true, although prior I used a heavy CT timeline before 2011.
 

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