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Timeline Theories

Discussion in 'Zelda Theory' started by Time and Nature, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Time and Nature

    Time and Nature Master of Being a Bunny

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    Since the release of Hyrule Historia, timeline theorizing has taken a massive hit in the Zelda community. The book introduced its own official timeline, and, bar some minor tweaking with the inclusion of new entries, it has been endorsed with no change by Nintendo every step of the way, from the official Zelda.com website to their social media accounts. And honestly, this isn't an ENTIRELY bad thing; after all, it makes making theories about the series that aren't timeline related way easier to make, because everybody follows the same timeline; for example, if I made a theory about something from Minish Cap popping up in Wind Waker, but somebody else follows a timeline where Wind Waker precedes Minish Cap, I wouldn't even be able to present my theory from the start because it would completely contradict this other person's timeline.

    However, even with the convenience that the timeline offers to the theorizing community, a problem surfaces with the official timeline when its placements directly cause plot holes and continuity errors within the story; for example, trying to say Ocarina of Time directly precedes A Link to the Past causes plot holes and errors to appear. In the backstory of A Link to the Past, Ganondorf was already known as Ganon before getting the Triforce, and once he accidentally opened the Sacred Realm, he claimed the entire Triforce and was unable to leave due to being both sealed in and not knowing how to leave before it was even sealed (1). In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf only gets the Triforce of Power in the Sacred Realm which he actively knew about and was attempting to open, and leaves after obtaining the Triforce of Power to rule Hyrule for seven years where he is only THEN known as Ganon (2).

    This is just a few of many inconsistencies caused by the book, and one of the many reasons that people such as myself take the book as little more than fan fiction. Sure, many people argue that because Aonuma gave his official stamp on the book and has referenced the timeline in interviews before, then that means it clearly must be canon, right? But how about the times that he's said he believes the timeline is up to the player?

    "What's funny is to see the fans debate where BoTW fits in the timeline. But history has been written by historians that have been able to establish an order of events. Except no one is really sure everything happened in this exact order ! Anyways, when it comes to the Zelda timeline, I'm of the opinion that it's for the players to debate, and to imagine themselves the order of events!" - Aonuma in an interview with French youtuber Siphano

    However, to play devil's advocate, I can understand if somebody believes the game continuity has been retconned by the books. For example, people believing Link DOES die at the end of Ocarina of Time in one outcome, and aLttP's backstory has been made void due to the updates the books introduce. I can't really fight this argument because it's entirely subjective on what matters more, the books or the games. However, one thing is extremely certain: the ingame story, lore and continuity cannot coexist with the current timeline's lore. So this is where my question to you comes in:

    What do you as a player think of timeline theories? Do you think they've been made irrelevant due to retcons and changes to the story introduced by official Nintendo products and social media accounts, or do you think they still have a place in the Zelda community as fun ways to discuss the series in new shapes and ideas?

    ____

    1.)

    However, one day, due completely by accident, the entrance of the sacred place was opened by a band of thieves. [...] The man's name was Ganondorf, commonly known as the evil thief Ganon. - A Link to the Past original manual


    However, it looks as though that was interrupted somewhere... Then, the one who again discovered the sacred land was the thief called Ganondorf. But, thankfully, he didn't know how to return to the World of Light. - Maiden, A Link to the Past Japanese translation


    2.)

    As I thought, you held the keys to the Door of Time! You have led me to the gates of the Sacred Realm... Yes, I owe it all to you, kid! - Ganondorf, Ocarina of Time

    The Triforce separated into three parts. Only the Triforce of Power remained in Ganondorf's hand. - Sheik, Ocarina of Time

    On that day seven years ago, Ganondorf suddenly attacked... and Hyrule Castle surrendered after a short time. - Impa, Ocarina of Time
     
  2. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    I always used to adhere to the Official Timeline when it first released. And like you menetioned, having a common timeline to work with made theorizing about things other than the timeline much easier. I'd still say having an official timeline isn't bad, but only within the last few years have I begun to deviate from the Official Timeline.

    For one, I don't care to consider Tri-Force Heroes a canon game. I'll recognize that it is canon, I know it is a sequel to ALBW, but personally I'd rather disregard it. The recent change of Link's Awakening in Hyrule Encyclopedia I disregard as well. Link's Awakening fits better after the Oracle games, not before.

    Some people continued to make their own timelines after the official timeline, but what I noticed was a lack of interest from others. So yes, I think the Official Timeline killed off timeline theorizing in the broad sense, it only came back into play when new Zelda games were released and their placement was unconfirmed, that'd cause a spark in placement theories on the game.

    I kind of think of Breath of the Wild's lack of an official placement as Nintendo going hands off again with the timeline, and I don't think it is a bad idea. Alot of theorists will say it was just alot more fun trying to fit the games together yourself. There are certain things to be gained, other lossed, with both. In a few years the state of the timeline will end up like it was back in 2010, where everyone had to argue their timeline and other theorizing was secondary at best. Leaving things as is, keeping the Official Timeline going, that lets other theorizing remain easy. However, there is always potential for fan backlash if a game is placed in an area fans don't agree with, or if the game is thought to not belong on the timeline at all. It's also annoying when a game's placement is completely fine, but then it gets moved unnecessarily.

    I honestly can't say which scenario is better. It's kind of like the whole KISS scenario. KISS started out as a rock band that wore facepaint. Fans wanted them to stop wearing the facepaint, so they did. Once they stopped wearing the facepaint fans quickly wanted them to wear the facepaint again. Same thing with the Zelda Timeline. For years fans complained about there not being an official timeline, even accusing Nintendo of not caring because they wouldn't release an official timeline. We get it, and what happens? Fans quickly retract and want things to be the way it was before the official timeline was released.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
    Spirit likes this.
  3. Spirit

    Spirit

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    The Zelda timeline has always been a kind of 'damned if you and damned if you don't' affair for me.

    I used to really enjoy Zelda theory and timeline placements before the official reveal. I really liked the idea of the Oracle games being a convergence event with one happening on each timeline before we ever knew of a third branch.

    I dont think fans were wrong in asking for an official timeline but i do think they were naive in thinking Shigsy or Aonuma were going to put as much thought into it as the fans themselves did.

    I'm sure Shigsy wanted the Zelda series to endure as it has for thirty plus years but he cant have ever had a thirty year timeline plan where every game slotted nicely together, especially when he isn't the only creative mind producing the games.

    The way Zelda got away with being ambiguous for so long with how it fits together is because of its 'legend' status. Legends are vague and choppy with many interpretations and it is like we as fans are Hylian historians trying to find that new piece of evidence with each new game.

    This has been the magic of timeline theory for me and yes the official timeline did hurt my passion for it, it sank my favourite theory and brought a whole new branch which made the majority of the classic 2D games look like an offshoot of child murder...

    It felt as if Shigsy/Aonuma had pulled a branch out of their arse for no reason, especially when many a fan theory had successfully managed to put all the games into the unified, adult and child timelines quite well. Shigsy and Aonuma could have just stolen one of those.

    It was interesting to see the reasoning for their placements in books such as the Historia and Encyclopedia but never satisfying.

    As far as BotW goes though, i'm torn.

    I like that Aonuma seems to be giving agency back to fans but he has put it so far beyond anything that right now it doesnt matter what timeline it's on.
    I dont think the whole of the timeline spanned 10,000 years on its own with all three branches accounted for, yet here BotW is with a 10,000 year backstory all its own and an unspecified timeframe between it and the last game.

    BotW has a 10,000 year back story but there could easily be 50,000 years on top of those 10,000 from whatever game it does actually carry on from so right now it doesnt matter at all which branch it is a part of, it's too far removed to matter.

    So while I like the agency i think that agency is pointless for now.
    It is almost like Aonuma now has to build a fresh timeline around BotW if he wants that fan agency to return before we had the official timeline reveal for the series as a whole.

    What entirely put me off theory though was how BotW handled its references to previous game lore.

    When i first activated the tower that reveals 'Rauru Hillside' i made a bee-line straight for it thinking something really interesting would be there. Afterall why would this hillside be named after such an important character?

    I was sure I was going to find something... nope. Nothing. Which made the reference ring completely hollow.

    Same for almost everything else, it was as if they went back afterwards and just dropped familiar names in just to feel satisfying but it worked in reverse for me. These places have no reason to be named what they are. Especially after 10,000+ years.

    That is what killed Zelda timeline theory for me, the official effort rang hollow, they weren't trying, they weren't caring... so why should I?

    **Also, regional canon is starting to raise it's head more than ever. The Japanese script says that Ganon HADN'T given up on reincarnation whereas the english dub states that he has or currently is.

    The German and Japanese dub of Zelda's speech in BotW mentions all three branches too whereas the english dub doesn't.

    Majora's Mask's japanese canon is Skull Kid's dream whereas the english interpretation is that Termina is another dimension of Hyrule.

    I'm always of the mind that the Japanese canon would be the one to follow the closest because they are the ones actively creating new content and lore. A Majora's Mask follow up would be very different for the west as opposed to tbe east in terms of lore since in Japan MM happened in Skull Kid's head...

    This also makes theorising hard and makes things like Majora's eye being on Midna's helmet ring hollow like the place naming in BotW.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  4. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    But if you think about it this is more true to how things are done in reality. In the Downtown area of my city there is street called Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. It's named after the most famous civil rights activist from the last century, but there is no reason for the area where the road is to be named after him. He never gave a speech in that area, he was born in Atlanta, Ga., not Savannah. It has no significance pretaining to him besides his name being attached to it.
     
  5. Spirit

    Spirit

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    That is true but in reality that kind of thing cant be helped. With something fictional it rings hollow for me.
    For how lax Zelda has been with its lore recently i highly doubt Aonuma had a 10,000+ year history mapped out in order for that hillside to be named after Rauru.

    In reality history happened. In fiction history is created and it really feels as if Aonuma didn't bother and just dropped names.

    I'd like to be wrong but thats how it feels.
     
  6. BlackWolf//WhiteAngel

    BlackWolf//WhiteAngel When all else fails use fire

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    I really like the timeline a lot, and don't see too much wrong with it over anyone else's timeline theory. Timeline theories are basically almost dead since hyrule historia became a thing. But it seems as time goes on more and more people grow to be indifferent to or outright despise the timeline made by nintendo Which is why I feel timeline theories should still be a thing.
     
  7. Moblinking5000

    Moblinking5000

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    Considering the fact that ''Ganon'' is Ganondorf's name only shortened, it's not hard to believe that he was always referred to as Ganon in some circles, especially with HH saying that Ganon is Ganondorf's nickname. Also, the word used in Japanese for accidently can also be translated as ''by chance, suddenly,''etc.

    Also, all it says is that Ganondorf obtained the Triforce; Triforce has been used to refer to only a single piece at times instead of the full Triforce. OoT itself has Rauru saying that Ganondorf obtained the Triforce despite him only getting Power. It seems to skip over his seven year reign over Hyrule, which makes sense from both a meta perspective(OoT wasn't made yet) and an in universe(Hyrule's history spans over millennia; seven years is peanuts) perspective. How would the Maiden know whether Ganondorf knew how to leave? She wasn't even alive during that time. Sounds like speculation on her part.

    This quote isn't wrong; players can debate it if they want, but that doesn't change the fact that the timeline is official(which Aonuma even says earlier in the same interview). Also, he even said that it's just his opinion, and there are other people who work on the series aside from Aonuma.
     
  8. Time and Nature

    Time and Nature Master of Being a Bunny

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    You'd have a point if there was a single person in Ocarina of Time who actually called him Ganon in the past, but there isn't.
    You would again have a point if Ocarina of Time didn't contradict the notion that Ganondorf opened the Sacred Realm in the first place. Link opened the entrance to the Sacred Realm, as pointed out by both Rauru and Ganondorf, and Ganondorf took this to his advantage, sneaking in and stealing the Triforce.

    Though you opened the Door of Time in the name of peace... Ganondorf, the Gerudo King of Thieves, used it to enter this forbidden Sacred Realm! - Rauru, Ocarina of Time

    But it's made clear Ganondorf explicitly wishes on the Triforce in aLttP's backstory immediately after entering it.

    His hand dirty with fresh blood, the leader touched the Triforce and the crest's spirit whispered.
    "A person with a wish, I await, make the wish."
    The leader smiled, and the echo of his laugh echoed across time and space and even to the far away land of Hyrule.
    [...]

    Ganon acquired the Triforce, but no one knows what Ganon wished for. - A Link to the Past manual

    You can't wish on the Triforce and have that wish actually succeed with only a singular piece, and as I pointed out, it is made explicitly clear in the manual that he did make a wish in the Sacred Realm.

    I'll also go ahead and point out that aLttP and OoT have different reasons for their respective Sacred Realms. aLttP says that the Dark World takes the shape it does because Ganon wished on it. This literally would not be possible in OoT, but we know that the Dark World also exists during OoT, meaning we're given two separate reasons for the same thing occurring, one of which is literally not possible to coincide with the events of Ocarina of Time.

    Ganon's wish was to conquer
    the world. That wish changed
    the Golden Land to the Dark
    World.
    - Essence of the Triforce in aLttP

    I mean, does it really? The manual has THIS to say about when Ganon claimed the Triforce pre aLttP:

    At this time the Demon King Ganon, who threatened Hyrule, was born. - A Link to the Past manual

    Naturally this would line up with Ocarina of Time as well because he became the Demon King after claiming one piece of the Triforce, but Hyrule Historia, for some reason, immediately contradicts this notion and says that in the Downfall Timeline he only becomes the Demon King after gaining ALL 3 pieces, seven years after he actually gained the first piece of the Triforce and became the Demon King in the actual real canon.

    At last, Ganondorf found himself in the possession of the Triforce of Wisdom that dwelt within Princess Zelda, and the Triforce of Courage that dwelt in Link. His true power achieved, he transformed into the Demon King. The Seven Sages of Hyrule, led by Princess Zelda, sealed Ganon and the Triforce in the Sacred Realm as a final resort. - page 92 of the Historia

    Trying to say it just skips over it is incorrect when literally nothing else regarding aLttP lines up; Ganon becomes the Demon King in Hyrule, not the Sacred Realm, gained the pieces multiple years apart, and he definitely isn't shown to be stuck in the Sacred Realm after gaining the Triforce, which brings me to my next point.

    I feel like that's a pretty presumptuous statement considering that Hyrule actually has a pretty strong tradition of history being transmitted through actual tapestries and books, as opposed to the Skyloftians and the majority of Hylians in the Adult Timeline. Also, while not outright saying it, the manual heavily implies it, because its pointed out several times in aLttP's manual that it's never Ganon DIRECTLY attacking Hyrule. It's typically more attributed to Malice gas/Light World inhabitants who fell under his control/etc, and the thing is HE wasn't even sealed in the Sacred Realm, the Sacred Realm's entrance was sealed with him in it. Why would he return to the Sacred Realm when he was already in Hyrule? It's pointed out he's at a much larger risk in the Dark World because it's a limited space, meaning that he simply has to hide and hope for the best if somebody rises to challenge him, but if he's in Hyrule, it's literally over, because there's nothing that can even hope to both track him down and defeat him when he has the entire Triforce.

    The King of Hyrule was greatly troubled, and had the seal studied, but found nothing. The people had nothing else to do but pray to the gods. -A Link to the Past manual

    Ganon erected a barrier on Death Mountain's tower, and is waiting for the time when he will slip through the passage between the two worlds. If Ganon were to come to the World of Light, it might no longer be possible to catch him. But, if he's inside this bounded space, you can find him unfailingly no matter where he runs. -Zelda, a Link to the Past
    I mean I guess all I can say is I don't really care if it's "official" or not? If it actually matched ingame lore I wouldn't care and would actually go by this timeline, but... it honestly sucks. So I'd rather go by something else that can actually make sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  9. Moblinking5000

    Moblinking5000

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    No one else besides the sages, Link, and Ganondorf were there when Link opened the door. Not really any way for historians to know how Ganon really entered the SR.

    Also, some of the qualities of the Triforce were retconned in OoT in game, regardless of whether you believe in the real timeline or not.(such as the Triforce splitting when touched by someone with an imbalanced heart, whereas ALttP just had the Triforce willing to grant everyone who had a wish a wish according to the manual)This explains why the creation of the DW is portrayed differently in ALttP and OoT. It is interesting to note that while the SR was corrupted in OoT, it's never called the DW until the end of the game; maybe it doesn't become the DW until then. Ganon gets the Triforce at the end of the DT ending of OoT, which is earlier than the AT ending, and is then sealed in the SR in it. Maybe his wish to rule the world took place after that, with the SR becoming the DW we see in ALttP because of it, hence why it's the DW in ALttP.

    ...

    I mean...is that really something so important and unlikely that not seeing it is the end of the world? It's like being surprised that someone named Christopher is called Chris just because you've never heard someone refer to him as that before.

    Actually, If I recall correctly, HH says that he became the Demon King multiple times throughout the OoT section. What I take that to mean is that, in current canon, Ganondorf obtained the title of Demon King after getting the ToP, but he didn't take on the form of the Demon King until he obtained the full TF.

    The maiden isn't reciting any written histories, though so we can't say for sure that what Ganondorf knows about leaving the SR is even written down. With the information we have available, It's merely oral tradition. Here is what Fi says about oral tradition:

    So, in your fanon timeline...

    -How do you justify Ganon going from being sealed in the FS without the Triforce to being sealed in the DW with it?
    -How do you justify putting AoL and BotW at the end of the CT when both games make it clear that the sages from the later part of OoT were awakened?
    -How do you justify the fact that FSA Ganon's backstory(desert nomad hated by his own people, no interest in the Triforce, seems to be content with the Trident) has nothing in common with ALttP Ganon(King of Thieves who desired the Triforce...kind of like OoT Ganon...hmm...)
     
  10. Time and Nature

    Time and Nature Master of Being a Bunny

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    Sages/descendants of Sages and the Royal Family keeping track of long distant histories. Hmm, I wonder where that's been seen before?

    A Link to the Past
    Ocarina of Time
    Majora's Mask
    Wind Waker
    Twilight Princess
    A Link Between Worlds


    wat

    The Triforce, respectively: "one who would Conquer Power," "one who would Govern Wisdom," and "one who would Temper Courage" held three different emblems. It would shine in the Sacred Realm, somewhere in the world, until one who was worthy of inheriting those powers appeared. -A Link to the Past manual

    It straight up says in the manual that you have to govern all three traits to be worthy to claim the Triforce, and, more importantly, the fact it didn't split shows us that Ganondorf WAS worthy of the Triforce in A Link to the Past, something OoT Ganondorf was not.

    That's a lot of maybes popping up for something that's supposed to be an official timeline. Zelda says that the Dark World exists long before Link and Ganondorf fight, before Zelda is even captured. Hyrule Historia also makes it clear that in its interpretation of the timeline, the divergences all occur at the same point; in the final battle with Ganon at the same time. This means that the Dark World came into existence during the seven years, if not literally when Ganondorf claimed the Triforce in the first place/entered the Sacred Realm. As much as I hate using something so inaccurate, but since you believe in it, I'll also point out page 87 of the Historia supports this.

    I like my lore being consistent, thanks. He was commonly known as Ganon before he claimed the Triforce, as shown by FSA. This is not the case for OoT Ganondorf. Trying to handwave evidence just for the sake of it not fitting your views is greatly unappreciated.

    I interpret it as the main lore of OoT doesn't line up with aLttP (shocker) and they attempted to fix this in some way by making him become the Demon King when he obtained the full thing to line up with aLttP (of course, this attempt is futile considering literally nothing lines up.)

    This is, again, highly presumptuous. Sages, descendants of Sages and the Royal Family are all known lore keepers in the series, and I don't see why this suddenly changes because the canonical game goes against the book's fanon. There's nothing even remotely implying it's oral in the first place, and I don't know why the developers would actively choose to lie to us especially at this point in the series.
    That's an easy one; if you paid attention to the FS story arc, you'd be pretty aware the FS is pretty much kaput by the beginning of Four Swords Adventures. It constantly needs to be recharged using Force and is easily drained. It's not exactly a reach to suggest that Ganon would break out of a WEAKER Four Sword eventually post Four Swords Adventures considering Vaati managed to do it with a STRONGER version in the original Four Swords. As shown by a fairly blatant hint at the end of Four Swords Adventures, the entrance to the Sacred Realm is in Hyrule Castle, and we also know Zelda is currently in posession of the Dark Mirror, which is pretty much one of Ganon's main tools used to distract the Hero and the rest of Hyrule from his existence. He goes to Hyrule with his worshipers who we actively see throughout the game in the form of both Deku Scrubs and thieves in Kakariko who are explicitly stated to worship the King of Darkness, stumbles upon the Sacred Realm entrance by chance, wishes on the Triforce, doesn't know how to leave, starts attacking from within the Dark World and bam, the entrance is sealed and he's stuck with the Triforce in the Dark World. Sure, I'd say this part of the timeline is one of the more hypothetical and relies more on making your own connections, but the thing is every single connection here IS plausible.

    Show me where in the games its made clear the Hero of Time and his exploits weren't remembered following the child ending. Part of Wind Waker's intro can even be found on tombstones in Kakariko Graveyard in Twilight Princess. Nothing the Hero's Shade says even remotely SUGGESTS he wasn't remembered.

    ...

    This is rich.

    Nowhere in the game nor the manual is aLttP Ganon ever called the King of Thieves in the source text. My guess is you're basing this off the English manual, meaning you're already wrong from the beginning. He's the leader of a bunch of thieves, and, as I pointed out before, there are literal thieves in Kakariko Village worshiping him, meaning it's likely these followers are the ones being talked about. The source text of FSA also outright says that Ganon knows he doesn't have enough power and is working to claim more.

    However, you know what actually IS funny about calling Ganon king? In Four Swords Adventures, the wielder of the Trident is given the title King of Darkness. This title is used in both A Link to the Past AND the Oracle Games (the localization says Gerudo King, but the Japanese makes it explicitly clear.) And you know whats even better? They call him the DEMON KING OF DARKNESS in aLttP and OoX. That means he wasn't the Demon King yet in FSA, but would later become the Demon King. This also means that aLttP and OoX Ganons had to have came in possession of the Trident. You know who wasn't in possession of the Trident? OoT Ganondorf. He didn't have it in this hypothetical Downfall Timeline, and he certainly didn't leave the Sacred Realm in between Link's defeat and the beginning of aLttP to claim the Trident, meaning OoT Ganondorf literally cannot be the King of Darkness. How about that?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  11. Moblinking5000

    Moblinking5000

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    In regards to the OoT/ALttP points: I was just throwing around ideas to reduce retcons, but no matter what, I don't really care that OoT doesn't completely mesh with ALttP, as I can accept that retcons are a thing that exist(not only in Zelda, but any series), as well as the fact that the GBA manual even cuts out the part in the manual prior to the IW about Ganondorf getting the Triforce, making me wonder why Nintendo would even do that if everything is still the same as it was in 1991, not to mention that regardless the people who made OoT have stated its connection to ALttP. I will however say that I appreciate you bringing this quote to light:

    The Triforce, respectively: "one who would Conquer Power," "one who would Govern Wisdom," and "one who would Temper Courage" held three different emblems. It would shine in the Sacred Realm, somewhere in the world, until one who was worthy of inheriting those powers appeared. -A Link to the Past manual

    My apologies, I stand corrected on that point, I missed that.

    I might come back to this argument when I have less of workload, but right now, I'll just quickly respond to your counters to my counters:

    Kind of like how it's not a reach for Ganondorf to be referred to as Ganon offscreen before getting the ToP. But according to your logic, not seeing it happen means it doesn't, so...

    There's plenty of time for the OoT sages to be mentioned in TP, but they aren't. The set we see in TP are of the same set(as seen by the medallions), but are not the same people. Why would the unawakened OoT sages be remembered instead of the ones that actually are awakened in this timeline? That would make no sense.



    Leader, king...same difference. TP Ganondorf is referred to as a leader of a band of thieves if I remember correctly(please correct me if I'm wrong), and he's the same guy as OoT Ganon.

    Also the explanation for why FSA Ganon is called the King of Darkness is only applicable to ALttP/OoX Ganon if all of them are the same Ganon. In OoX he's referred to as both the King of Darkness and the Great Demon King; two titles in one game, proving that with the exception of FSA Ganon(which makes sense if you assume that he's the only Ganon who isn't the same as the others), Ganon's titles are just typical evil titles, like how villains in TV shows have names like ''Asgorth, Lord of Darkness'' or how Aku from Samurai Jack has the titles of ''Shogun of Sorrow'' and ''Master of Darkness''(once again, two titles for one guy). Also the trident(s) for ALttP Ganon and OoX Ganon are never given significance like the one in FSA is. We know there's multiple swords in Zelda, is the idea that the tridents are different really a stretch, especially when they appear to have somewhat different functions and looks in each game.
     
  12. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    @Time and Nature Are you saying you believe FSA takes place before ALttP and leads up to it?
     
  13. Time and Nature

    Time and Nature Master of Being a Bunny

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    Notice how the game itself directly refrains from mentioning Ganon until much later into the actual plot. The manual was a walking spoiler. The intro of aLttP doesn't even have the gall to say somebody claimed the Triforce; it just said evil flowed from the Sacred Realm. The only reason the manual was changed was to make spoilers less easy to access.
    Uh? I feel like this applies more to you than anything.
    "We don't see the OoT sages mentioned therefore they were literally never ever ever remembered ever in the Child Timeline"
    While I admit it's not impossible for Ganondorf to be called Ganon before getting the Triforce of Power, I'm just going off what we see. There were way more opportunities for literally ANYONE in the present to utter the words Ganon than there were to mention the OoT sages in TP.

    They definitely AREN'T the same. Sure, a king is a leader, but a leader isn't always a king. Those aren't comparable. A team captain of a football king isn't the king of the football team.
    Y'see this is where it gets kind of difficult. Let's say a new Zelda came out that was a sequel to Twilight Princess with the same Link, but it wasn't very clear due to being kind of similar to other Zelda games and had a different overworld. However, there was one connection; at one point in the game, he's called the Hero of Twilight by an NPC, and this topic is never touched upon again. You wouldn't argue "My evidence is that this game is a direct sequel, meaning that he would be called the Hero of Twilight in both games." You'd argue "These two Links are called the Hero of Twilight in their respective games, meaning these games probably have the same Link." That's exactly what I'm arguing with the King of Darkness title; These three Ganons all use the title King of Darkness at least once in their respective games, meaning they're all probably the same Ganon. That's why FSA goes so far in depth to explain the King of Darkness title; it gives meaning to aLttP and OoX when the games use it. It's literally a title that's more specific than Demon King, due to Malladus and Demise both not having been in possession of the Triforce at any point in the games but still being given the title. The Tridents in aLttP and OoX are never given a crazy emphasis, but that doesn't mean they're not the same; The Four Sword's origin story as the Picori Blade isn't told in FS or FSA, but that doesn't mean it's a different sword.
     
  14. Time and Nature

    Time and Nature Master of Being a Bunny

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    Yep! My timeline is in my signature.

    SS > OoT > WW > PH > ST > TFH
    ---------\ MM > TP MC > FS >FSA > aLttP > OoX > LA > aLBW > LoZ > AoL > BotW
     
  15. Spiritual Mask Salesman

    Spiritual Mask Salesman ~ Deus' Pug Smuggler ~

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    Why is TFH after Spirit Tracks? Why can't it be sometime after ALBWs?