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Timeline placement?

Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Source? If we believe that it isn't in the Hero of Winds timeline even with the presence of rock salt from an ancient sea (recently confirmed that this is by far the latest game in the timeline), rito, and koroks, we have to admit that there is also substantial evidence for each of the timelines even if we don't agree on which one it is. Again, legend timeline outlook here.
While it's not confirmed, it is extremely unlikely, seeing as Hyrule was washed away at the end of Wind Waker, and New Hyrule was established by the time of Sprit Tracks... the chance of Hyrule being restored with no evidence of New Hyrule being carried over is slim at best.
Plus, the rock salt, Rito and Koroks are not overly strong evidence in favour of the adult timeline, as they could all have other explanations... and the presence of both Rito and Zora actually conflicts with the adult timeline.
But this doesn't rule out the adult timeline entirely... as I mentioned before, a timeline split within the adult timeline could avoid these problematic details.
 

Hyrulian Hero

TheGuyWhoSqeezedOutAHeartPieceInTheStockPotInn
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While it's not confirmed, it is extremely unlikely, seeing as Hyrule was washed away at the end of Wind Waker, and New Hyrule was established by the time of Sprit Tracks... the chance of Hyrule being restored with no evidence of New Hyrule being carried over is slim at best.
Plus, the rock salt, Rito and Koroks are not overly strong evidence in favour of the adult timeline, as they could all have other explanations... and the presence of both Rito and Zora actually conflicts with the adult timeline.
But this doesn't rule out the adult timeline entirely... as I mentioned before, a timeline split within the adult timeline could avoid these problematic details.
I totally get that, and I see how it's unlikely. I feel like it's equally unlikely that it's in the downfall timeline where we don't see the Temple of Time or the child timeline where the Shiekah were wiped out. I kind of think it's likely that it's a legend that took elements from history as it formed, just like all the other games ought to be. I mean, we have names from all three timelines in BotW.

I also think that the disparity between Rito and Zora existing at thesame time is no more unlikely in the adult timeline than it is in any timeline.
 
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Joined
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I also think that the disparity between Rito and Zora existing at thesame time is no more unlikely in the adult timeline than it is in any timeline.
It depends on the origin of the Rito... just because they evolved from the Zora in the WW timeline does not mean they have to have that same origin in every timeline... BotW doesn't appear to make any connections between the two races, so it's possible the they're unrelated in this timeline.
 

Amy Lu Minati

The Triangle conspiracy
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It depends on the origin of the Rito... just because they evolved from the Zora in the WW timeline does not mean they have to have that same origin in every timeline... BotW doesn't appear to make any connections between the two races, so it's possible the they're unrelated in this timeline.
Could be true, it is however assuming a lot. This is how many times we know Rito came from Zora: 1
This is how many times we know Rito came from something else: 0

We can't really say because %100 of the time so far they have come from Zora.
 
Joined
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Could be true, it is however assuming a lot. This is how many times we know Rito came from Zora: 1
This is how many times we know Rito came from something else: 0

We can't really say because %100 of the time so far they have come from Zora.
It's assuming a lot to think that the WW Rito are the same as the BotW Rito as well.
The Rito and Zora have never coexisted before... it is implied that the Zora went extinct when they evolved into the Rito in the WW timeline.
The Rito in WW don't get their wings until they reach adulthood, and have to obtain a scale from Valoo to do so... yet in BotW there is no sign of Valoo, and we see a handful of Rito children who already have their wings.
 

Amy Lu Minati

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It's assuming a lot to think that the WW Rito are the same as the BotW Rito as well.
The Rito and Zora have never coexisted before... it is implied that the Zora went extinct when they evolved into the Rito in the WW timeline.
The Rito in WW don't get their wings until they reach adulthood, and have to obtain a scale from Valoo to do so... yet in BotW there is no sign of Valoo, and we see a handful of Rito children who already have their wings.
The Rito were in an evolving stage of life in WW, that wasn't the finished product. And I don't think it makes any sense for the Zora (since they can breathe underwater just fine) to be extinct, so I didn't really get that implication. :/ nowhati'msaying?
It's safe to assume things that have already happened vs things we can only guess
 
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The Rito were in an evolving stage of life in WW, that wasn't the finished product. And I don't think it makes any sense for the Zora (since they can breathe underwater just fine) to be extinct, so I didn't really get that implication. :/ nowhati'msaying?
It's safe to assume things that have already happened vs things we can only guess
There's no more evidence to support those assumptions than there are to support the ones I was suggesting.
The only reason to assume that the Rito were still evolving in WW would be to make it fit with BotW.
Being able to breathe underwater alone is not enough for them to survive in the Great Sea... it's full of monsters and the game even makes reference to a lack of fish in the sea... both of which would have forced Zora out of the water, where they would have had to have evolved to survive.
And if they did survive past the evolution of the Rito, you'd also have to make assumptions about where the Zora were during WW, PH and ST, as well as why they didn't evolve along with those who evolved into Rito.
The assumptions just keep building up... the more you think about it, the more complicated it gets, which is why I'm more inclined to think they're not the same Rito... it just seems like the simpler explanation.
 

Hyrulian Hero

TheGuyWhoSqeezedOutAHeartPieceInTheStockPotInn
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It depends on the origin of the Rito... just because they evolved from the Zora in the WW timeline does not mean they have to have that same origin in every timeline... BotW doesn't appear to make any connections between the two races, so it's possible the they're unrelated in this timeline.
Exactly. The fact that Rito descended from Zora and Koroks from Kokiri in WW doesn't mean that they can't coexist, especially since this game comes so long after any of the other games. Thanks to the hilarious timeline, it takes some mental gymnastics to explain why Zora and Rito and Koroks and Kokiri can exist simultaneously but no more than it takes to explained how Breath of the Wild fits into any other time.
 

Amy Lu Minati

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There's no more evidence to support those assumptions than there are to support the ones I was suggesting.
The only reason to assume that the Rito were still evolving in WW would be to make it fit with BotW.
Being able to breathe underwater alone is not enough for them to survive in the Great Sea... it's full of monsters and the game even makes reference to a lack of fish in the sea... both of which would have forced Zora out of the water, where they would have had to have evolved to survive.
And if they did survive past the evolution of the Rito, you'd also have to make assumptions about where the Zora were during WW, PH and ST, as well as why they didn't evolve along with those who evolved into Rito.
The assumptions just keep building up... the more you think about it, the more complicated it gets, which is why I'm more inclined to think they're not the same Rito... it just seems like the simpler explanation.
If they didn't come from Zora, then they aren't Rito! :/ The fact that their name has remained the same proves it. Also, the fact that we see the Rito actually looking like full-on birds proves that they weren't finished with their process of evolution. Sure it doesn't make sense, but it's a fantasy video game. To find out how ANY of this makes sense, we should probably look at the clues given in BOTW.
"The rains have blessed Lanayru since ancient times with an abundance of pure, clean water. Seeking a bounty of such water, the Zora gathered there. "
---Zora stone monuments, 10,000 years ago

This doesn't say that all the Zora traveled down to ZD. It would make sense if Rito Village was where the Zora all started, it does sit above tons of water but we can tell from the high walls above the water that there used to be a lot more. Was this water dirty? Rito Village is a secluded lake (no rivers to clean it out) and it is right across from a bog so it could very well have been dirty because of bad water in the past. We wouldn't know if any Zora had lived up there before because in OoT we never had access to those mountains. All we know is that the Zora did not originate from Zora's domain and some of them went to Zora's domain because they were craving massive amounts of clean water. So how it probably went was all who "gathered" stayed Zora, and all who were left behind had to evolve into birds to keep living in the mountains. :/ That's how it could very well make plenty of sense. I doubt that BOTW even happens in the WW timeline because there is pretty big evidence supporting the other two timelines and very little supporting WW. All we have to show for that is pretty much the existence of Koroks, Rito, Beedle and saltrocks. Which all could have came to be from other things.
 
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If they didn't come from Zora, then they aren't Rito! :/ The fact that their name has remained the same proves it. Also, the fact that we see the Rito actually looking like full-on birds proves that they weren't finished with their process of evolution. Sure it doesn't make sense, but it's a fantasy video game. To find out how ANY of this makes sense, we should probably look at the clues given in BOTW.
"The rains have blessed Lanayru since ancient times with an abundance of pure, clean water. Seeking a bounty of such water, the Zora gathered there. "
---Zora stone monuments, 10,000 years ago

This doesn't say that all the Zora traveled down to ZD. It would make sense if Rito Village was where the Zora all started, it does sit above tons of water but we can tell from the high walls above the water that there used to be a lot more. Was this water dirty? Rito Village is a secluded lake (no rivers to clean it out) and it is right across from a bog so it could very well have been dirty because of bad water in the past. We wouldn't know if any Zora had lived up there before because in OoT we never had access to those mountains. All we know is that the Zora did not originate from Zora's domain and some of them went to Zora's domain because they were craving massive amounts of clean water. So how it probably went was all who "gathered" stayed Zora, and all who were left behind had to evolve into birds to keep living in the mountains. :/ That's how it could very well make plenty of sense. I doubt that BOTW even happens in the WW timeline because there is pretty big evidence supporting the other two timelines and very little supporting WW. All we have to show for that is pretty much the existence of Koroks, Rito, Beedle and saltrocks. Which all could have came to be from other things.
A lot of assumptions there for someone who was questioning the amount of assumptions I was making... so let's go back to some facts.
There are two separate species of Zora which may or may not be related, so there could easily be two separate species of Rito.
The reptilian River Zora would actually be better suited for a more bird-like evolution than the fish-like Sea Zora... although the same could be said about mammalian races, as they are biologically closer to birds than fish are.
The Rito in WW were loosely inspired by the Watarara race from the non-canon OoT manga, with the BotW Rito design moving far closer to the design of the Watarara.
Zora communities are always centred around a monarchy, as is the Rito community in WW, but the Rito in BotW follow an elder, with no evidence of a monarchy.
 

Hyrulian Hero

TheGuyWhoSqeezedOutAHeartPieceInTheStockPotInn
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Simmer. Were did you read the thing about the Watarara? I thought I was the only person who recognized that when the trailer came out! I think everything is assumption at this point, but that's the important thing: we're all wrong until Nintendo says otherwise! Yeah, it makes sense that the Rito and Zora can't coexist, that's what everybody took for granted in WW. Well guess what. They do. Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask aren't in the same timeline. Whoops, guess Ballad of the Wind Fish is in the child timeline. Oh, Tingle? Yeah, apparently he's all sorts of places, as is Beedle. I'm just saying, any theory is far-fetched. We asked for a timeline, these are the consequences of that wish. We all need to keep in mind, no one is obviously right because every answer is ridiculous.
 

Amy Lu Minati

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A lot of assumptions there for someone who was questioning the amount of assumptions I was making... so let's go back to some facts.
It wasn't the amount, it was the magnitude. :/ I don't think nintendo would call a species the same exact name as another completely unrelated species. There is no reason to and it hasn't happened before.
 
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The Rito in BotW have differences in terms of cultures, such as children being able to fly whereas in TWW they couldn't until they reached a certain age and got a scale from the Valoo.

We're in Old Hyrule, anyway, making an AT placement impossible.

The only evidence for the CT is the embers of Twilight line, which in the JP version, is called Tasogare, a word only used in the JP version of TP to refer to Midna's title. Everything else relating to the Twilight in the Japanese version of TP is called Kage, which translates to shadow.

Why the far future of the DT is most likely:

-Most battles with Ganon as per Aonuma.

-Ganon is devoid of his humanity.

-Sages from OoT awakened. This could be evidence for the AT or DT, but since we're in Old Hyrule...

-BotW Hyrule is in decline; the DT has Hyrule constantly going through ages of decline.

-Only branch that has evidence of Hylia worship re emerging due to the Goddess Statue in AoL being more or less identical to what Hylia looks like.

-Rhoam mentions that it's a tradition to name all princesses Zelda in his journal, a tradition only made law as far as we know in the DT.

-Although weak evidence, Lynels exist in only the DT as far as we know.

-Allusions to the NES games made constantly in gameplay videos by developers.
 

Hyrulian Hero

TheGuyWhoSqeezedOutAHeartPieceInTheStockPotInn
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The Rito in BotW have differences in terms of cultures, such as children being able to fly whereas in TWW they couldn't until they reached a certain age and got a scale from the Valoo.

We're in Old Hyrule, anyway, making an AT placement impossible.

The only evidence for the CT is the embers of Twilight line, which in the JP version, is called Tasogare, a word only used in the JP version of TP to refer to Midna's title. Everything else relating to the Twilight in the Japanese version of TP is called Kage, which translates to shadow.

Why the far future of the DT is most likely:

-Most battles with Ganon as per Aonuma.

-Ganon is devoid of his humanity.

-Sages from OoT awakened. This could be evidence for the AT or DT, but since we're in Old Hyrule...

-BotW Hyrule is in decline; the DT has Hyrule constantly going through ages of decline.

-Only branch that has evidence of Hylia worship re emerging due to the Goddess Statue in AoL being more or less identical to what Hylia looks like.

-Rhoam mentions that it's a tradition to name all princesses Zelda in his journal, a tradition only made law as far as we know in the DT.

-Although weak evidence, Lynels exist in only the DT as far as we know.

-Allusions to the NES games made constantly in gameplay videos by developers.
Not to be contrary, but all of those reasons are just as legitimate as reasons for placement in other timelines. I don't claim at all to know what Nintendo is thinking or where they're going to decide to put Breath of the Wild on a timeline but allow me a moment to convolute things.

- Most battles with Ganon - I'm just not sure how this relates. Unless you mean that the downfall timeline has far more games than the other two, which, in my opinion, is circumstantial evidence at best. Plus, this line of thinking cuts out thepossibility that there are games in other timelines involving Ganon which we have not yet seen.

-Ganon is devoid of his humanity. - Again, this doesn't seem to have much bearing on the placement of this game on the timeline.

-Sages from OoT awakened. This could be evidence for the AT or DT, but since we're in Old Hyrule... - I may very well have missed where Breath of the Wild explicitly states that "Sages from OoT (are) awakened" but even if I did, OoT comes before and during the split. This being said, I'm also not finding any cut and dry proof that BotW takes place in old Hyrule. If it does take place in old Hyrule, who is to say it's not new Hyrule long after ST? Actually, the game does take place long after any game to date so it's entirely possible. Not that I think it's likely, but none of this is likely. Where's the Temple of Time in any downfall timeline game? But it is in BotW? If you're going to tell me a new one could have been built between LoZ and BotW, you've gotto admit that anything could happen in that time. Rito could evolve, Koroks could show up, Ganon could disappear or return, technology could be found or forgotten, the Shiekah could tear a wormhole in time and somehow exist in the child timeline after Impa in TP, anything!

- BotW Hyrule is in decline; the DT has Hyrule constantly going through ages of decline. - Is it not true that every game features a decline and a hero to mop it up? For how long BotW takes place after any other game, it's possible, even likely, that the state of Hyrule in any game we know is entirely disconnected from the state of Hyrule in Breath of the Wild.

- Onlybranch that has evidence of Hylia worship re emerging due to the Goddess Statue in AoL being more or less identical to what Hylia looks like. - No, not my precious straws! They're being grasped at! I mean, Lake Hylia appears in all three timelines (technically) so...I mean, yeah.

- Rhoam mentions that it's a tradition to name all princesses Zelda in his journal, a tradition only made law as far as we know in the DT. - A point well conceived, although the presence of that law in the downfall timeline is not mutually exclusive to the implied tradition in the other two timelines.

- Althoughweak evidence, Lynels exist in only the DT as far as we know. - If we're swinging that as evidence, we only know of koroks existing in the adult timeline and we even have strong reasons for why.

- Allusions to the NES games made constantly in gameplay videos by developers. - Not in reference to timeline placement but to gameplay on every occasion.

Now for some greater obfuscation. The Castle Town square from TP (a circle, mind- blowing, right?!) is very clearly referenced in BotW. How does that physical leftover from Twilight Princess coexist with the Koroks from WW? Or the Rito? And how do they exist at the same time? And how is Wolf Link from TP in the game? Is it just his spirit? Or just a non-canon easter egg? I'll tell you what's not an easter egg, the one atop Mt. Tamaranch in Link's Awakening! And what else is in that game? Kanalet! Goponga! Ukuku! Ulria! Tal Tal! How can they be in the memory of BotW when embers of Twilight also are??? All questions, no answers. Nintendo. We're all fools.
 
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Not to be contrary, but all of those reasons are just as legitimate as reasons for placement in other timelines. I don't claim at all to know what Nintendo is thinking or where they're going to decide to put Breath of the Wild on a timeline but allow me a moment to convolute things.

- Most battles with Ganon - I'm just not sure how this relates. Unless you mean that the downfall timeline has far more games than the other two, which, in my opinion, is circumstantial evidence at best. Plus, this line of thinking cuts out thepossibility that there are games in other timelines involving Ganon which we have not yet seen.
He said that it's a hint as to where the game takes place, meaning that using current information, we should have an idea of where it takes place. Current info is all that matters, as we don't know what the future holds.

On the DT, we have atleast five Ganon attacks: OoT, the IW, ALttP, the BS of ALBW, and LoZ. If you include his resurrection in the OoX and his unsealing and fusing with Yuga in ALBW, that's seven. The other timelines only have three.

-Ganon is devoid of his humanity. - Again, this doesn't seem to have much bearing on the placement of this game on the timeline.
One of the main themes of the DT is that Ganondorf loses his human form and becomes more and more monsterlike throughout the history of Hyrule in that line.

-Sages from OoT awakened. This could be evidence for the AT or DT, but since we're in Old Hyrule... - I may very well have missed where Breath of the Wild explicitly states that "Sages from OoT (are) awakened"
One of the Zora Monuments say that Ruto awakened as a sage and summarised the events of OoT from the perspective of the Zora, and Urbosa mentions that Nabooru was a sage.

, OoT comes before and during the split.
The later part of OoT never happens in the CT.

If it does take place in old Hyrule, who is to say it's not new Hyrule long after ST?
The MS, Triforce, and Ganon still exist, as well as places such as DM and the ruins of Lon Lon Ranch, so...

Is it not true that every game features a decline and a hero to mop it up?
Hyrule is thriving in OoT, and TP has no one even knowing what's going on, with almost no one even dying. So no.

- Onlybranch that has evidence of Hylia worship re emerging due to the Goddess Statue in AoL being more or less identical to what Hylia looks like. - No, not my precious straws! They're being grasped at! I mean, Lake Hylia appears in all three timelines (technically) so...I mean, yeah.
Don't see how it's grasping for straws when people were talking about a Hylia connection to the Goddess Statue after SS was out...

Rhoam mentions that it's a tradition to name all princesses Zelda in his journal, a tradition only made law as far as we know in the DT. - A point well conceived, although the presence of that law in the downfall timeline is not mutually exclusive to the implied tradition in the other two timelines.
We don't know the exact state of the tradition in the other two branches, though.

And I said that Lynels are weak evidence.
 

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