Timeline Discussion

[Moblinking5000]

So, what kind of timeline ideas do all of you want to see explored?

I'd like:

-A new game post ST that introduces a new villain for New Hyrule

-A game post FSA to feature the return of Ganon II

-A game that takes place post TP and pre FSA that features a ressurection of Ganondorf I, maybe ending with him being killed off for good on the CT to pave the way for Ganon II*, perhaps via the Triforce like in TWW or the Imprisoned in the present of SS.

-A Musou like game to take place during the Great Flood, Imprisoning War or Fierce War would be cool

-An actual direct sequel to TP with the same Link (no, LCT doesn't count) visiting a new land

*It wouldn't even have to be that particular game; it could be some games down the line if they want to have Ganondorf I around for a while before FSA.

 

[Mangrove]

you know what, just for the heck of it, this is the timeline I made several years back

This is the Balanced Timeline! Basically, when WW came out, the classic games had to go to the Child Split since WW and ALttP are incompatible in the same timeline. TP wouldn't change much since ALttP in the Child Split already assumes the Imprisoning War happened as a separate event from the Adult portion of OoT.

I assume that a timeline with ALttP after TP Ganondorf is revived offscreen would have been better received by fans over a timeline with an alternate OoT scenario where Link dies, all offscreen.

EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/zeldaconspiracies/comments/im78sl/the_balanced_timeline/
it's a long one but I'm pretty sure it's the same, just overexplained

 

[Shane]

I would like to hear some ideas on how the Door of Time was closed when Link was sent back at the end of OOT.

I believe he was sent back at a point before he met Zelda but after the Deku tree dies and Link gets the Kokiri Emerald.

Question is how was the door of time open when he was sent back and how did it get closed? Did child Link and Zelda go close it together and why did they need to close it if the triforce was no longer in the sacred realm? Was it to protect the master sword?

 

[Mangrove]

I would like to hear some ideas on how the Door of Time was closed when Link was sent back at the end of OOT.

I believe he was sent back at a point before he met Zelda but after the Deku tree dies and Link gets the Kokiri Emerald.

Question is how was the door of time open when he was sent back and how did it get closed? Did child Link and Zelda go close it together and why did they need to close it if the triforce was no longer in the sacred realm? Was it to protect the master sword?

I thought it was just a safety mechanism. If you somehow spawn from the inside, the door opens from that side but closes after you leave the chamber.

 

[Shane]

I thought it was just a safety mechanism. If you somehow spawn from the inside, the door opens from that side but closes after you leave the chamber.

That is an interesting theory. So maybe whoever designed the door placed some kind of magic on it to allow that to happen?
How do you think Zelda would know this?

 

[Mangrove]

That is an interesting theory. So maybe whoever designed the door placed some kind of magic on it to allow that to happen?
How do you think Zelda would know this?

Yeah some kind of magic similar to the door opening with the three spiritual stones, as if the door could tell that there was a presence on the inside without having the keys on the outside.
Zelda told us to close the Door of Time in the first place so she probably already had the knowledge (Impa, teachings from the Royal Family, etc.)

 

[AwdryFan1997]

I'm going to be honest. I hate the official timeline. And it all has to do with A Link Between Worlds. I really like A Link Between Worlds, but at the end of the day, it's just another rehash of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Nothing new, nothing special. But the game, which tries to be the sequel to A Link to the Past no one desired, disrupts the most important part of ALttP's ending: The Triforce. It's clear the original intention was for Link to hand the full Triforce over to the Royal Family, leading into the backstory of Zelda II. ALBW ruins this with the Triforce-splitting bull****, and it really pisses me off, like this auto-censorship thing ZD's got here.

 

[TheHeroofTime]

I, too, hate the official timeline. To a degree. I also enjoy the ambiguity of it. Inconsistencies mean I have something to think about, to pick apart. However, I really, really prefer the idea that the Zelda games are a bunch of legends and folklore, passed down through the ages, perhaps not even taking place in the same universe. A Link to the Past's backstory is completely trampled by Ocarina of Time, which disregards nearly everything that it set up. Twilight Princess's origin story for the Master Sword is overridden by Skyward Sword. The Wind Waker feels limited by the fact that it follows up on the "Adult Timeline." Breath of the Wild is freed up by being disconnected to the timeline, but doing so required putting a ridiculous amount of time between it and the previous games.

I think the series would be better off if Zelda acknowledged that it isn't a hard-worldbuilt series, and embrace its inconsistent and contradictory nature. Final Fantasy does this really well. The games in that series aren't connected by timeline, but by themes, recurring narratives, creatures, and occasionally characters. Zelda could learn a lot from that model.

 

[Shane]

I, too, hate the official timeline. To a degree. I also enjoy the ambiguity of it. Inconsistencies mean I have something to think about, to pick apart. However, I really, really prefer the idea that the Zelda games are a bunch of legends and folklore, passed down through the ages, perhaps not even taking place in the same universe. A Link to the Past's backstory is completely trampled by Ocarina of Time, which disregards nearly everything that it set up. Twilight Princess's origin story for the Master Sword is overridden by Skyward Sword. The Wind Waker feels limited by the fact that it follows up on the "Adult Timeline." Breath of the Wild is freed up by being disconnected to the timeline, but doing so required putting a ridiculous amount of time between it and the previous games.

I think the series would be better off if Zelda acknowledged that it isn't a hard-worldbuilt series, and embrace its inconsistent and contradictory nature. Final Fantasy does this really well. The games in that series aren't connected by timeline, but by themes, recurring narratives, creatures, and occasionally characters. Zelda could learn a lot from that model.

I agree there are parts of it that can be annoying when they say official but have multiple continuity issues. Also like you said it is fun to pick apart. I would say that OOT does not trample ALTTP's backstory too much unless you only refer to the English localization of ALTTP which adds all sorts of extras that are not actually part of the original Japanese translation and then seem to be scrapped in OOT.

I enjoy studying the lore and trying to figure out how things connect with the evidence we have to go on but I get annoyed when things like Hyrule Encyclopedia come out and blatantly contradict in game facts.

In a way the Downfall timeline is just folklore since it did not really happen at least I cannot see how it could happen yet from any in game evidence.

I think we can all take it the way we want to. Just games, retellings of the same legend, or an entire history without absolute connections.

 

[AwdryFan1997]

I agree there are parts of it that can be annoying when they say official but have multiple continuity issues. Also like you said it is fun to pick apart. I would say that OOT does not trample ALTTP's backstory too much unless you only refer to the English localization of ALTTP which adds all sorts of extras that are not actually part of the original Japanese translation and then seem to be scrapped in OOT.

I enjoy studying the lore and trying to figure out how things connect with the evidence we have to go on but I get annoyed when things like Hyrule Encyclopedia come out and blatantly contradict in game facts.

In a way the Downfall timeline is just folklore since it did not really happen at least I cannot see how it could happen yet from any in game evidence.

I think we can all take it the way we want to. Just games, retellings of the same legend, or an entire history without absolute connections.

Honestly, I really like the US localization of ALttP, but it does definitely lead to the most differences between OoT and the Imprisoning War. I mean, I've tried to come up with a reasonable explanation, but really, the excellent localization is what caused this problem. At the end of the day, the main problem is that the Seven Wise Men don't correspond with the Six Sages. You could say this is because it's been "three or four generations" and anyone who witnessed those events firsthand were killed in the Imprisoning War, but that doesn't explain how the Seven Maidens are all Hylians. So, do we just assume there's some interspecial mingling?

 

[Shane]

Honestly, I really like the US localization of ALttP, but it does definitely lead to the most differences between OoT and the Imprisoning War. I mean, I've tried to come up with a reasonable explanation, but really, the excellent localization is what caused this problem. At the end of the day, the main problem is that the Seven Wise Men don't correspond with the Six Sages. You could say this is because it's been "three or four generations" and anyone who witnessed those events firsthand were killed in the Imprisoning War, but that doesn't explain how the Seven Maidens are all Hylians. So, do we just assume there's some interspecial mingling?

I also like it too and all the artwork to go along with it. I was disappointed that the sages in OOT did not equal the wise man and the other discrepancies like how a band of thieves stumbled on the entrance to the sacred realm but we never see that.

Well in the intro of ALTTP it seems to indicate the seven wise men sealed the entrance to the sacred realm which would be a different event than the sages sealing Ganon in the void of the realm which happened at the end of OOT. Can they be two separate events?

Well can the seven maidens just be spiritual descendants of the sages? Do they have to be actual blood descendants? I think in Wind Waker we see the two sages awaken even though they are not direct descendants or even the exact same species. I think that must be how the maidens are supposedly their descendants.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I'm going to be honest. I hate the official timeline. And it all has to do with A Link Between Worlds. I really like A Link Between Worlds, but at the end of the day, it's just another rehash of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Nothing new, nothing special. But the game, which tries to be the sequel to A Link to the Past no one desired, disrupts the most important part of ALttP's ending: The Triforce. It's clear the original intention was for Link to hand the full Triforce over to the Royal Family, leading into the backstory of Zelda II. ALBW ruins this with the Triforce-splitting bull****, and it really pisses me off, like this auto-censorship thing ZD's got here.

The backstory of ALBW ends with Ganon sealed and with the Triforce split. ALttP ends with Ganon dead and the Triforce unified in Hyrule. It's clear that something else happened between the two games; I would say that Ganon was revived again sometime before ALBW, and was defeated by the hero of that era and sealed with the Triforce of Power. There's definitely precedence for that, considering that Ganon being revived is a major theme of the DT.

 

[Mangrove]

The backstory of ALBW ends with Ganon sealed and with the Triforce split. ALttP ends with Ganon dead and the Triforce unified in Hyrule. It's clear that something else happened between the two games; I would say that Ganon was revived again sometime before ALBW, and was defeated by the hero of that era and sealed with the Triforce of Power. There's definitely precedence for that, considering that Ganon being revived is a major theme of the DT.

I agree with this. Most of the backstories from ALBW refer to ALttP (except for the Sages sealing the Triforce, which may have happened between SS and OoT but if anyone else is more sure than be my guest because idk), but the backstories don't necessarily contradict if ALttP Link had sealed Ganon in a separate event. Of course, this may contradict the official timeline if OoX Link is supposed to be different, meaning the last hero before ALBW was NOT the hero from ALttP...

Whether OoX comes before or after LA in a timeline, having them both be the same Link benefits ALBW's backstory since OoX shows the possibility of Ganon being revived in ALttP Link's time. Also, ALBW implies that Gramps is the hero in all the backstories, and if those backstories refer to ALttP, it would have to be the same hero anyways.

 

[Mangrove]

I also like it too and all the artwork to go along with it. I was disappointed that the sages in OOT did not equal the wise man and the other discrepancies like how a band of thieves stumbled on the entrance to the sacred realm but we never see that.

Well in the intro of ALTTP it seems to indicate the seven wise men sealed the entrance to the sacred realm which would be a different event than the sages sealing Ganon in the void of the realm which happened at the end of OOT. Can they be two separate events?

You're right that the 7 Awakened Sages would have to be different from the 7 Wise Sages and that the events of the Sealing War don't correspond to the end of OoT; it would have to be a separate event afterwards.

ALttP manual: The king orders the Knights living in Hyrule and the Sages to seal the source of the evil
OoT: The king is dead when Ganon is sealed, and if it was when the king was alive, there weren't seven Sages at the time.

ALttP manual: The Sages first had to search for the existence of the Master Sword and a hero to use it.
OoT: The Temple of Time's Master Sword pedestal is the entrance to the Sacred Realm's Chamber of Sages. Rauru knew where the Master Sword was.

ALttP manual: The Knights had valiantly used their bodies as shields during the fierce attack, and although they unfortunately perished when their strength had exhausted, this had given the Sages time to complete their Seal.
OoT: There were no knights when Ganon was sealed (except Link if that qualifies)

Laruto refers to Medli as "one who carries on my bloodline" so I thought they were blood descendants.

I do think that the inconsistencies between OoT to ALttP's manual backstory surpass ALttP to ALBW's backstory. While ALBW's inconsistencies can be seen as additions and subtractions from the events of ALttP, ALttP's manual backstory has altered events to OoT, unless the Imprisoning War was well afterwards. If that's the case, the only inconsistency would be the opening of the Sacred Realm in the first place.

ALttP manual: However, one day, due completely by chance (as in accident/suddenly/unexpectedly), the entrance of the sacred place was opened by a band of thieves.
OoT: Ganondorf knew what he was doing when he followed Link to the Temple of Time, purposefully getting into the Sacred Realm.

If you think about it, Link opens the Door of Time, "unintentionally" letting in Ganondorf and his thieves, but that would be on Link (and Zelda for telling Link to do this) rather than the band of thieves.

With the Sealing War needing to be a far off event, the only relation ALttP's backstory has with OoT is that Ganondorf got the full Triforce, which didn't even happen in OoT, but an alternate version of OoT (according to canon). So, with that, I'd vouch for the downfall timeline games happening after TP.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I agree with this. Most of the backstories from ALBW refer to ALttP (except for the Sages sealing the Triforce, which may have happened between SS and OoT but if anyone else is more sure than be my guest because idk), but the backstories don't necessarily contradict if ALttP Link had sealed Ganon in a separate event. Of course, this may contradict the official timeline if OoX Link is supposed to be different, meaning the last hero before ALBW was NOT the hero from ALttP...

Whether OoX comes before or after LA in a timeline, having them both be the same Link benefits ALBW's backstory since OoX shows the possibility of Ganon being revived in ALttP Link's time. Also, ALBW implies that Gramps is the hero in all the backstories, and if those backstories refer to ALttP, it would have to be the same hero anyways.

Actually, my argument is that the hero who seals Ganon prior to ALBW is a hero we haven't seen yet, and that the ALBW backstory is referring to the Era of Chaos, OoT, ALttP, and this new event while completely ignoring LA and the OoX due to them not taking place in Hyrule, mashing them up as one legend, which would explain why the hero is portrayed as only one person in these paintings.

Also, it doesn't make sense for ALttP/LA to be Oracles Link as Oracles Link doesn't remember Zelda. Encyclopedia changed it for the better.