Time Travel: Predestination vs Dynamic?

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I recently entered in a discussion, with DarkDagger52, that led to the specifics of the time travel we see in the Zelda series, with particular focus on Skyward Sword. While I am of the opinion that SS is a time loop, and that Link's time manipulation events are temporal echoes (only really making changes in the present), It seems to me that DarkDagger52, who I have invited to join our community, is convinced that SS has what seems to me to be dynamic time travel.

(Here is one of my older postings: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/time-travel-and-time-manipulation.61120/ as a primer if you want to dig deeper into how I see time travel represented. It could use some updating, if everyone thinks that thread would be useful.)
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Their argument, if I understand it correctly, was that as Groose saw the tree we plant as Link, in the past, as always present, we see Zelda and Impa's actions as time travelers as always present because they traveled time before Link. Before I get into my reasoning, I want to give that individual to jump in to make any corrections, and everyone else time to weigh in with their thoughts.

We also touched on Oracle of Ages. I recently went from not having an opinion because I had not played it, to realizing as soon as I started the game that the Maku Tree understood that it's past was being changed, leading me to believe the game uses Temporal Echoes.

 

[DarkDagger52]

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Their argument, if I understand it correctly, was that as Groose saw the tree we plant as Link, in the past, as always present, we see Zelda and Impa's actions as time travelers as always present because they traveled time before Link. Before I get into my reasoning, I want to give that individual to jump in to make any corrections, and everyone else time to weigh in with their thoughts.

That just about sums it up all except for that since Impa starts the time travel scenario by traveling to the future Impa's time is the present and Link's time is the future.

Also your poll is missing Wind waker, Four swords adventures and Breath of the wilds.

 

[Commander_Has]

If you affect the past, it will start a loop, but if you travel forward in time, where time isn't set, the timeline can break.

 

[DarkDagger52]

If you affect the past, it will start a loop, but if you travel forward in time, where time isn't set, the timeline can break.

What's your evidence of this?

 

[Commander_Has]

In SS, you traveled back through time and nothing changes inside. In Oricale of ages/seasons, you travel through time to the past as well, and little changes there, but when you travel forward in OoT, you split the time line.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Glad you made it, @DarkDagger52 . I'll edit the original post to include your user name.

 

[DarkDagger52]

when you travel forward in OoT, you split the time line.

In order for your statement to be true the timeline would have split from Link opening the Gate of time and pulling the Master sword. At the end of the game Zelda sends Link back in time to before the first meeting with Zelda and tells Link to close the Gate of time to sever the connection between the two time points and then we see a timeline split at the end of the game indicating that the timeline split because Link closed the Gate of time in the past.

In Oricale of ages/seasons, you travel through time to the past as well, and little changes there

Many things changed during Oracle of ages: a tree was planted, the Maku tree was killed, the Maku tree was saved, many vines were moved, a river and pond were moved, a town was destroyed, a town was saved, a tower was built, a statue was replaced, the Maku tree gained a statue etc.

In SS, you traveled back through time and nothing changes inside.

As I said earlier since Impa traveled to the future Link's era is the future and Impa's era is the present which means that Link never travels to the past instead he's traveling between the future and the present. As for nothing changing Link planted a tree and placed the Master sword in Impa's era those are changes.

Glad you made it, @DarkDagger52 . I'll edit the original post to include your user name.

Sorry I'm late I had to deal with some infrastructure problems.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

You made it. That's what matters.

 

[Commander_Has]

Ok, so let me clarify. It's not that the timeline lacks the splits, It's that we're already in the split. It's like past tense and future tense. In past tense, "Germany lost WW2", but in future, "Germany cold lose WW2". The difference is that we're originally from a split in that timeline, so that's the only one we see. but if we come from before we see all the timelines. SS and Orical of Ages/Seasons did create many time lines, but because we originated from a split, we don't see the other timeline. Thus, a continuous timeline

 

[DarkDagger52]

Ok, so let me clarify. It's not that the timeline lacks the splits, It's that we're already in the split. It's like past tense and future tense. In past tense, "Germany lost WW2", but in future, "Germany cold lose WW2". The difference is that we're originally from a split in that timeline, so that's the only one we see. but if we come from before we see all the timelines. SS and Orical of Ages/Seasons did create many time lines, but because we originated from a split, we don't see the other timeline. Thus, a continuous timeline

What's your evidence of this?

 

[Commander_Has]

I derived it from a real world theory of time, Nexus points. They are like forks in the road, and if we're already past it, if we talk about before it, we know where we'll end up, but if we are before it, there is no telling.

 

[DarkDagger52]

I derived it from a real world theory of time, Nexus points. They are like forks in the road, and if we're already past it, if we talk about before it, we know where we'll end up, but if we are before it, there is no telling.

So what you are saying is that you have a conclusion that you are stating as fact but no evidence to back it up.

 

[Commander_Has]

I gave as much evidence as I could for a mere theory. Do you have anything to prove it wrong, or are you just asking and being a pain about any answer given that isn't from you or Ryuu.

 

[DarkDagger52]

I gave as much evidence as I could for a mere theory. Do you have anything to prove it wrong, or are you just asking and being a pain about any answer given that isn't from you or Ryuu.

So first of all its your theory the burden of proof is yours if you can't provide solid evidence its not a solid theory. Second you are asking me to prove a not about something that doesn't have the evidence to back it up (if what you provided is anything to go by) an equivalent theory would be that its all a dream. And third trying to provoke me into picking up the burden of proof with an insult is a rookie move.

I will however point out that every time there was a confirmed timeline split from time travel evidence of the split existed in the game that caused the split for Ocarina of time it was the entire ending after the defeat of Ganon and for Age of calamity its directly stated in game through one of the text boxes that appears when loading into a mission.

 

[Commander_Has]

I was not attempting to insult you, I was asking why you disagreed. It is true that I am a rookie, but As far as I can tell, I've provided evidence, citing many games, and a scientific theory, you sound as though you disagreed, but give no reason as to why. I apologized for sounding a little harsh earlier.