• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

A Link Between Worlds Thoughts on Yuga

Doc

BoDoc Horseman
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Gender
Male
I realized that I can't really remember seeing any thread on this, and if so, I apologize.

Anyways, Yuga was technically the main enemy of this game. Of course, Hilda may be given this title, but she was never really a villain more than she was just desperate. So what did you think of the antagonist of A Link Between Worlds? How does he measure up against past villains?

Thats all there really is to say. Discuss!
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Gender
Timecube

6tith
 

Vanessa28

Angel of Darkness
Staff member
ZD Legend
Administrator
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Location
Yahtzee, Supernatural
Gender
Angel of Darkness
Please let's be serious.

I think he was underused. They could have done so much more with him. He was a very cool villain but he is badly underused. We don't know where he came from and we assume he already planned this all along but they could have added more to him.
 

Ocarina_Player

Will play for rupees
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Location
Behind you!
Well, you know he's from Lorule and he was some advisor to Hilda. Ravio didn't trust the little creeper at all. But you are right, I feel like there was more that could have come from him. But then again I am spoiled from Girahim, he did plenty to make you want to choke-slam him into the wall and terrified of him at the same time.

However in terms of game play Yuga was fun to fight. I enjoyed bouncing from painting to 3D and back.
 
Yuga could have been a better character had Nintendo waited to use him. Coming off of Skyward Sword's Ghirahim, his flamboyance was underwhelming. Yuga fit well into ALBW's whimsical world, but it was hard to appreciate him because he barely had screen time during the second half of the game.
 

Ocarina_Player

Will play for rupees
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Location
Behind you!
Yes, it definitely felt like they were trying to channel some Ghirahim into him, which I found a little repetitive. Don't get me wrong, I love the flamboyant psycho villains, but it was just a little too close to what they JUST did in the last game and I was thinking "really guys? You couldn't come up with something a little bit different?". But ultimately I don't think they gave Yuga much of a chance to really show off his evilness. The main focus was supposed to be Yuganon anyway, which would have been fine had they taken a different approach with Yuga in the beginning. They shouldn't have tried to build him up so much if they were just going to turn him into an entirely different villain.
 
Joined
May 16, 2008
Location
Kentucky, USA
I think this goes back to more than just Yuga as far as the problems surrounding the main antagonist. I would argue that, other than Ganon/Ganondorf, no other antagonist has really made much of an impact on the players simply because they haven't been given much of a backstory or have had much ambition different from Ganon himself. Take Demise for example: We know that he is seemingly the original evil which plagued Hyrule (or the "world" in general) who was later resurrected as Ganondorf, then Ganondorf (or Ganon in most cases) was himself resurrected multiple times. So other than what Ganon had already established in prior games which Demise would come to be given some credit for as he was the original incarnation, his backstory was relatively weak. He was just there in a sense, much like Maladus in Spirit Tracks, although to a much lesser degree. Maladus had even less of a backstory other than being an evil that was sealed away by the power of the Spirit Tracks. He had a very strong resemblance to Ganondorf and could have easily been made out to be a new incarnation of Ganon (or Demise if you want to argue that, though that story had yet to be written), yet he was not even given this storyline to sort of tie him to the rest of the series in a siginificant way.

Yuga is much the same in that he was simply another bad guy from another world who bore some resemblance to Ganondorf, or the Gerudo tribe in general, and acted as Ganondorf himself would have in the same situation in that he captured Zelda, the Maidens (or Sages in some cases), and all-around rose hell throughout Hyule. Even though Ganon was brought into the story, arguably in a weird and perhaps even unnecessary way, it didn't do much for Yuga's character other than perhaps belittle it by saying he needed the essence of Ganon to do something he was already doing. Maybe if Yuga had been designed differently, with a different look, maybe then he would have been a better villain. But I think moreso than general design, the main antagonist needs to separate themselves from previous villains in a more significant way than their name.

What we have here, at least in my eyes, is a play on the same old story for the antagonist (kidnap Zelda and attempt to rule Hyrule or the world), which is much like the same old story of a young boy who appears as if out of nowhere, clothed in the same tunic of each legendary hero before him, in order to thwart whichever evil is plaguing the land. The difference is that while the hero himself can keep this same story and everything be fine, which has pretty much been the case all these years, the antagonist cannot keep this same story and remain interesting. The hero is, after all, supposidly the "player themselves" and therefore a backstory for Link is not overly important, just as the backstory for Zelda herself is not important as she is merely the Princess of Hyrule and needs to be nothing more. But for us players, we want our antagonist to be, not only menacing, but interesting enough to truly feel their menace. And this does not have to take two or three games to achieve; Remember, Ganon didn't have much of a backstory at all until ALttP, and even then that backstory wasn't truly fleshed out until OoT. Even Majora's Mask itself was a villain who was just ate-up with backstory, feels, and so much tyranny that you felt it in one game, and the player didn't even really know until the end that the Mask itself had a conscious of its own and was not merely a voodoo-esque tool.

I think Nintendo is playing it a little too safe these days. They don't want to flesh-out a new backstory for a villain because they either feel like it needs to be nothing more than the simplistic "steal the princess, rule the world", or perhaps they feel like straying from this at this day-and-age might confuse or alienate new players. At the same time, they don't want to keep reusing Ganon over-and-over for much of the same reason. They essentially create a new villain and give them the same goal or ambition as the previous one.

While I have loved Eiji Aonuma's work over the years and will continue to support him as long as he is doing his thing, I can say that the only thing that will fix this issue is a new set of writers and a more emphasized focus on the story of the Zelda series. We know Nintendo likes to focus on gameplay first, and that's fine; That's how it should be... But the story, especially of a series so deeply rooted in Nintendo's history and one of the biggest bread-winners the company has, should be just as important.
 
Last edited:

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I think this goes back to more than just Yuga as far as the problems surrounding the main antagonist. I would argue that, other than Ganon/Ganondorf, no other antagonist has really made much of an impact on the players simply because they haven't been given much of a backstory or have had much ambition different from Ganon himself. Take Demise for example: We know that he is seemingly the original evil which plagued Hyrule (or the "world" in general) who was later resurrected as Ganondorf, then Ganondorf (or Ganon in most cases) was himself resurrected multiple times. So other than what Ganon had already established in prior games which Demise would come to be given some credit for as he was the original incarnation, his backstory was relatively weak. He was just there in a sense, much like Maladus in Spirit Tracks, although to a much lesser degree. Maladus had even less of a backstory other than being an evil that was sealed away by the power of the Spirit Tracks. He had a very strong resemblance to Ganondorf and could have easily been made out to be a new incarnation of Ganon (or Demise if you want to argue that, though that story had yet to be written), yet he was not even given this storyline to sort of tie him to the rest of the series in a siginificant way.

I don't think you fully understand just what Demise is and what is role was in Skyward Sword's plot. I'm not gonna lie and say that SS had amazing storytelling (even though the characters were very memorable), but there's much more to Demise than what you described. For starters, he's not "just there" like Maladus, as he literally had a presence the entire game as the Imprisoned. He was always looming on the horizon, and it was never revealed just what he was until the game was beginning to reach its end point, which was a nice twist, as it linked the "master" Ghirahim had been talking about for so long and this monster that had haunted Link's dreams and broken out of its seal twice (soon to be a third time) together. This in tandem with the knowledge that Demise had risen up an army thousands of years ago and lost to Hylia inherently fleshes out Demise as a character. But that's not all there is.

It's later revealed that he appears differently in each epoch, as well as to each person that lays eyes on him, through Fi's scan of him. That's probably the most interesting thing about him, as it effectively makes him a shapeless entity, one that is likely evil incarnate. Considering that he's the source of all monsters (also learned in Fi's scan), he's basically the equivalent of the Devil in the Zelda franchise. This further fleshes him out as a character.

I think the most important thing, though, is that he's actually never literally reincarnated into Ganondorf. The official translation of Demise's speech is misleading and somewhat inaccurate to what was actually said. A fan of the series re-translated it verbatim, and it makes things a lot clearer.

I do not care if you value your life and run away. Go ahead and weep like a human during the little time left before I rule the world… But if you claim of having the courage to step into the Demon Tribe’s world, then… Come after me. I shall wait for a little while.
The words "Demon Tribe's world" are the most important, here. It confirms that Demise is the original Demon King spoken of in Four Swords Adventures, which, in turn, confirms that the tribe also spoken of in FSA and the "interlopers" spoken of in Twilight Princess were under his rule.

My hatred… The curse of the Demon Tribe… They shall continuously go on reincarnating until the end of all times.

Do not forget it! I shall repeat it!!

You people shall… You people who possess the blood of the Goddess and the soul of hero shall… forever be unable to escape from this curse!

This hatred and grude… Its evolution shall forever painfully wander across this blood-stained “Dark Sea” along with you lowlifes forever!!
This is what proves that Ganondorf is not a legit reincarnation of Demise. The Demon Tribe in full is what will keep reemerging forever, which has indeed happened in multiple games throughout the series. Ganondorf is obviously a part of this, but he is not Demise reincarnate.

Honestly, all that actually gives Demise more of a backstory than Ganondorf, so what you're saying about the two of them isn't exactly accurate. Also, I think it's prudent to point out that Ghirahim is actually the main antagonist of SS, not Demise. Demise may be the the last boss in the final stretch, as well as Ghirahim's master, but Ghirahim was the one making things happen the entire time. It's not like with Zant where the only reason he had any significant power in the first place was because of Ganondorf giving it to him. Demise would never have been revived if not for Ghirahim, and the latter does make constant appearances throughout the events of the plot, two of which were boss fights. This isn't as important of a factor as all of what was previously-mentioned, but you were treating Demise as the main villain.
 

Ocarina_Player

Will play for rupees
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Location
Behind you!
Well that puts Demise into better perspective for me, thanks for that. I never thought of Gandondorf as a direct reincarnation of Demise, but I always thought he inherited his evil will. Just like how the soul of the hero inspires the kid its born into to be super-brave and selfless and protective (and dress in green a lot?), whoever inherits the will of Demise will be likely to seek power and destruction.

But as Yuga is from Lorule, I don't think he has anything to do with Demise. Perhaps he is just a powerful and overly ambitious wizard who saw the potential in Hyrule to exponentially increase his power, and he manipulated Hilda to seek the triforce of Hyrule so he could get he could merge himself with Ganon whose power was as great as his own, thus making him strong enough to remake Hyrule and Lorule whichever way he liked.
 

r2d93

Hero of the Stars
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Location
Lost Woods
I thought Yuga was interesting. He was underused and could've benefited more from some actual character development. His obsession with beauty was an interesting motive too.

However, I agree that the flamboyant, less physically intimidating yet insane villain idea was just used in a similar fashion with Ghirahim in SS. I probably would've liked Yuga more if his appearance was a bit more spaced out from Ghirahim's appearance. Just felt a little too soon to try that again for me
 
Joined
May 16, 2008
Location
Kentucky, USA
I don't think you fully understand just what Demise is and what is role was in Skyward Sword's plot. I'm not gonna lie and say that SS had amazing storytelling (even though the characters were very memorable), but there's much more to Demise than what you described. For starters, he's not "just there" like Maladus, as he literally had a presence the entire game as the Imprisoned. He was always looming on the horizon, and it was never revealed just what he was until the game was beginning to reach its end point

Exactly.. Demise was the devil of the Zelda world, so yeah he has a backstory, but its like you say no one knew anything about him until the very end of the game. His character was overshadowed by Ghirahim and his form as the Imprisoned the entire game. So he rose up an army and tried to claim the Triforce; That's nothing new. In fact, that's pretty much what I stated in my post about each villain doing roughly the same thing that Ganondorf has done at least once or twice before. Demise was given a higher role as being the true incarnation of evil, but had Ganon never been who he was, the legacy of Demise would have started and ended with Skyward Sword.

I think the most important thing, though, is that he's actually never literally reincarnated into Ganondorf. The official translation of Demise's speech is misleading and somewhat inaccurate to what was actually said. A fan of the series re-translated it verbatim, and it makes things a lot clearer.

Taken from Zelda Wiki's page about Demise:

"Demise has a strong resemblance to Ganondorf; large stature, fiery red hair, dark skin; even his facial features are similar, and in the cutscene before the final battle with him, a variation of Ganon's leitmotif plays. Upon his defeat, Demise makes a claim that his hatred will not end, but will be reborn in the coming ages. The form of this evil is thought to be Ganon. Hyrule Historia specifically mentions that his flaming red hair is to signify a connection to Ganondorf."

Either translation of Demise's speech ultimately means the same thing. He was a part of the never-ending curse which ties the three main characters of the series together:
- The blood of the hero is often referenced as being passed down to each generation of Link.
- Hylia was reincarnated as Zelda, and each generation sees a new Zelda with the same characteristics as the previous one.
- Demise's hatred, essence, spirit, whatever you want to call it, was eventually reborn within Ganondorf/Ganon.

Honestly, all that actually gives Demise more of a backstory than Ganondorf, so what you're saying about the two of them isn't exactly accurate. Also, I think it's prudent to point out that Ghirahim is actually the main antagonist of SS, not Demise. Demise may be the the last boss in the final stretch, as well as Ghirahim's master, but Ghirahim was the one making things happen the entire time. It's not like with Zant where the only reason he had any significant power in the first place was because of Ganondorf giving it to him. Demise would never have been revived if not for Ghirahim, and the latter does make constant appearances throughout the events of the plot, two of which were boss fights. This isn't as important of a factor as all of what was previously-mentioned, but you were treating Demise as the main villain.

I wouldn't consider Ghirahim to be the main antagonist as much as he is the more prominent antagonist. His actions are a direct result of Demise's being, and him becoming Demise's sword at the end somewhat reduces his role further. Zant was the more prominent antagonist of TP, but Ganondorf was the main bad guy behind the curtain. Vaati was the more prominent antagonist of FSA and even the main antagonist of the first two games in the FS series, but at least when it comes to FSA, Ganon was the main antagonist. An argument can be made for Twinrova in the Oracle games, but it was even their body that allowed Ganon to be revived at the end, and even when he was revived he wasn't "all there". Though I would still be okay with someone saying Ganon was the main antagonist in that game.
 
Last edited:

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Exactly.. Demise was the devil of the Zelda world, so yeah he has a backstory, but its like you say no one knew anything about him until the very end of the game. His character was overshadowed by Ghirahim and his form as the Imprisoned the entire game. So he rose up an army and tried to claim the Triforce; That's nothing new. In fact, that's pretty much what I stated in my post about each villain doing roughly the same thing that Ganondorf has done at least once or twice before. Demise was given a higher role as being the true incarnation of evil, but had Ganon never been who he was, the legacy of Demise would have started and ended with Skyward Sword.

You're looking at it backwards. Without Demise, the cycle that the series has gone through wouldn't exist. That's canonically how it works. Demise's influence spreads across the entirety of the series (outside of a select few games), not just to Ganon. That's the purpose of him going after the Triforce in the first place, so that his presence and influence would actually be relevant.

Taken from Zelda Wiki's page about Demise:

"Demise has a strong resemblance to Ganondorf; large stature, fiery red hair, dark skin; even his facial features are similar, and in the cutscene before the final battle with him, a variation of Ganon's leitmotif plays. Upon his defeat, Demise makes a claim that his hatred will not end, but will be reborn in the coming ages. The form of this evil is thought to be Ganon. Hyrule Historia specifically mentions that his flaming red hair is to signify a connection to Ganondorf."

Either translation of Demise's speech ultimately means the same thing. He was a part of the never-ending curse which ties the three main characters of the series together:
- The blood of the hero is often referenced as being passed down to each generation of Link.
- Hylia was reincarnated as Zelda, and each generation sees a new Zelda with the same characteristics as the previous one.
- Demise's hatred, essence, spirit, whatever you want to call it, was eventually reborn within Ganondorf/Ganon.

Naturally there are connections, but a literal reincarnation and Demise's "curse" being one of the underlying causes of Ganondorf's evil status and him seeking out the Triforce are two completely different things. The different translations do not mean the same thing, especially considering that one confirms the whole Demon Tribe/Dark Tribe thing and the other doesn't even mention it.

Demise's backstory was not unique or interesting to me, and it lacked very much detail other than him being the original incarnation of evil.

And Ganondorf's is? His is every bit as lacking in detail, if not more so, as the majority of his relies on Demise to begin with. The only thing that's truly unique to him is that he was the Gerudo King, making him the sole male of the Gerudo race at one point. Forgive me, but at this point I'm convinced that you either have an intense bias or still don't fully understand just what Demise is.

And Ghirahim is not the main antagonist of the game as far as what I consider a main antagonist to be. He may be considered the more prominent antagonist, but he's not the main one. Main has always meant final to me in video games, so that's pretty much how I view it. Zant was the more prominent antagonist of TP, but Ganondorf was the main bad guy. Vaati was the more prominent antagonist of FSA and even the main antagonist of the first two games in the FS series, but at least when it comes to FSA, Ganon was the main antagonist. An argument can be made for Twinrova in the Oracle games, but it was even their body that allowed Ganon to be revived at the end, and even when he was revived he wasn't "all there". Though I would still be okay with someone saying Ganon was the main antagonist in that game.

I don't think that's a very solid basis as to what defines a main villain/antagonist. Final bosses in video games usually ARE the main antagonist, yes, but using that and that alone as reasoning just isn't solid. Again, Ghirahim was the one causing all the havoc. He was the one to bring about the revival of Demise, and without him, it never would have happened. He may have been the servant in the end, but he never had any kind of aid from Demise, and that automatically gives him the more important role -- which is what defines who the main antagonist is in a story. That's not my personal definition, that's officially what defines who the main antagonist is. It's very infrequent that a servant is given this role, of course, but it's not impossible (as SS shows), and it's absolutely not something that's stripped away just because said servant is not the final roadblock in the protagonist's way.

And correct me if I'm wrong here because honestly I haven't played TP in ages, but wasn't it Zant who helped Ganondorf to gain power once he was sent to the Twilight Realm? Ganondorf didn't just spawn the powers of the Twili if I remember correctly, it was a connection with Zant that gave him those abilities.

No. Ganondorf was likely banished to the Twilight before Zant was even born, though we don't know this for sure. We DO know that Ganondorf chose Zant as his vessel because of the absurd amount of hatred and lust for power that resided within him. Ganondorf's intent was never to aid Zant, of course, but rather to regain his power THROUGH him, so Zant effectively did give him his new Twili powers, but only because he was basically used as a host.
 
Joined
May 16, 2008
Location
Kentucky, USA
You're looking at it backwards. Without Demise, the cycle that the series has gone through wouldn't exist. That's canonically how it works. Demise's influence spreads across the entirety of the series (outside of a select few games), not just to Ganon. That's the purpose of him going after the Triforce in the first place, so that his presence and influence would actually be relevant.

I understand how canon works and I get that Demise started the cycle to begin with. However, Demise has direct connections mostly to Ganondorf, not to any other villain and its only officially stated that he has a connection to Ganondorf. I get that, being the incarnation of evil, Demise could then have influenced every villain throughout the series, every monster slain by Link, and every all-around bad thing that happens in the world of Hyrule. But my idea that Ganondorf is directly, and more-so, connected to Demise than any other evil being in the series, has not changed even with the difference in translations from the game. I see it for what the game itself makes obvious and what the developers obviously wanted to imply with Demise's design.

I don't think that's a very solid basis as to what defines a main villain/antagonist. Final bosses in video games usually ARE the main antagonist, yes, but using that and that alone as reasoning just isn't solid. Again, Ghirahim was the one causing all the havoc. He was the one to bring about the revival of Demise, and without him, it never would have happened. He may have been the servant in the end, but he never had any kind of aid from Demise, and that automatically gives him the more important role -- which is what defines who the main antagonist is in a story. That's not my personal definition, that's officially what defines who the main antagonist is. It's very infrequent that a servant is given this role, of course, but it's not impossible (as SS shows), and it's absolutely not something that's stripped away just because said servant is not the final roadblock in the protagonist's way.

Agreed, and I did edit my original post to fix this after giving it some thought. I don't believe it to mean "final" as there are too many contradictions to that. However, Zelda Wiki states Demise as being the main antagonist of the game as well, and I think most would agree with that. Ghirahim may have not had any help from Demise during the course of SS, but his powers and being began as a result of Demise giving him that position in the first place. That is why I see Ghirahim as less of the "main" antagonist and more-so the "primary" antagonist. Maybe that's a better way to put it.

No. Ganondorf was likely banished to the Twilight before Zant was even born, though we don't know this for sure. We DO know that Ganondorf chose Zant as his vessel because of the absurd amount of hatred and lust for power that resided within him. Ganondorf's intent was never to aid Zant, of course, but rather to regain his power THROUGH him, so Zant effectively did give him his new Twili powers, but only because he was basically used as a host.

Yeah I checked it out and realized that Ganondorf granted Zant a portion of his power early on. Like I said, its been quite a while since I even played TP, much less completed the game more than a couple of times, so I was a bit rusty on that.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I understand how canon works and I get that Demise started the cycle to begin with. However, Demise has direct connections mostly to Ganondorf, not to any other villain and its only officially stated that he has a connection to Ganondorf. I get that, being the incarnation of evil, Demise could then have influenced every villain throughout the series, every monster slain by Link, and every all-around bad thing that happens in the world of Hyrule. But my idea that Ganondorf is directly, and more-so, connected to Demise than any other evil being in the series, has not changed even with the difference in translations from the game. I see it for what the game itself makes obvious and what the developers obviously wanted to imply with Demise's design.

Of course he's more connected to Ganondorf. Ganondorf is the series' most frequently-recurring villain. That doesn't make Demise's influence on everything else any less important, though, and as such, I can't understand why you're making him out to be something so much smaller than he actually is. He's a crucial part in explaining the events that have taken place in the series' canon, and will no doubt have influence over many future plots by default.

Agreed, and I did edit my original post to fix this after giving it some thought. I don't believe it to mean "final" as there are too many contradictions to that. However, Zelda Wiki states Demise as being the main antagonist of the game as well, and I think most would agree with that. Ghirahim may have not had any help from Demise during the course of SS, but his powers and being began as a result of Demise giving him that position in the first place. That is why I see Ghirahim as less of the "main" antagonist and more-so the "primary" antagonist. Maybe that's a better way to put it.[/QUOTE]

Probably, yeah. I can see why you'd place a separation between those two words, because they're merely synonyms.

Though perhaps we should put this conversation on hold, as it seems to be on the verge of a loop and is derailing the thread.
 

sailormars109

Finding Love by the Moon
Joined
May 28, 2012
Location
Macy, Indiana
When I first saw Yuga, I thought, "Oh boy, we're gonna have another 'fabulous' character." However, Yuga is only fabulous in the first scene.

I feel like Yuga was hardly involved. He only appeared twice (I think) before the final boss. And even then, it wasn't much of a major event. Seeing Yuga at the beginning of the game before the quest actually starts felt a little rushed. Then, seeing him as a boss in the first temple was a little predictable. After that, Yuga is hardly seen or heard from until the final boss. That was disappointing. It seems that in most Zelda games, the main target as a villain is at least heard from more than that. Take Skyward Sword for example, Ghirahim appears multiple times even when he isn't the boss of the dungeon. Ghirahim plays a main part. Let's also look at Twilight Princess. Zant wasn't battled until the end of the Palace of Twilight, but he was still a main role in the quest. He makes an appearance after the Lakebed Temple and then makes another appearance in the Arbiter's Grounds. It just seems really disappointing that Hilda was more involved than Yuga.

Yuga's final battle was really disappointing as well. It was really easy too. Yuga just kind of appears and is like, "Hey, I'm morphed with Ganon, and I'm gonna trap Hilda then kill you. Kthnxbai." And then he doesn't even put up much of a fight. Two rounds and he blows up. Wow. In previous games, such as Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, Ganondorf/Ganon appears more and puts up an intense fight. He has at least 4 rounds of fighting whether it's all put together or spread out throughout the game.

Overall, I just found Yuga extremely disappointing and pathetic as a villain in the game.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom