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Tears of the Kingdom this rivals some of the worst games i've ever played; and i'm a life-long zelda fan

Joined
Jul 29, 2024
you can literally walk right through the shrines
And finish them by gaining the blessing at the end of the shrine. You are absolutely completing the shrine. If you choose to ignore the puzzle before completing the shrine, that is on you. You left it unfinished, not the devs.

I remember that journey! I had unlocked all the Lightroots and conquered the depths before designing any flying machines. When I finally started looking at that star island, it took me a while to figure it out! Now, I’ve got a transport medallion up there sunsets and sunrises and trying to build ridiculously tall scaffolding to reach the ceiling!
Many of the landscapes are so beautiful to look at depending on how the sun hits it. I'll have to create a thread for people to post their favorite pictures like that. I'm curious to see what others have gotten
 

Ghost of Mikeys Past

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And finish them by gaining the blessing at the end of the shrine. You are absolutely completing the shrine. If you choose to ignore the puzzle before completing the shrine, that is on you. You left it unfinished, not the devs.
I gave you a whole big metaphor with a maze to explain it. you're being a bit deceptive here. If I completed the shrine then how could I have left the puzzle unfinished? They are one and the same. The goal of every shrine puzzle is to reach the blessing, which I did by simply floating over there on a piece of terrain dozens of times.
 
Joined
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I gave you a whole big metaphor with a maze to explain it. you're being a bit deceptive here. If I completed the shrine then how could I have left the puzzle unfinished? They are one and the same. The goal of every shrine puzzle is to reach the blessing, which I did by simply floating over there on a piece of terrain dozens of times.
If you aren't using the pieces to the puzzle, to complete the shrine, I'd say you are leaving the puzzle unfinished. Flip side is I can complete the puzzle, and leave the shrine without gaining the blessing. I do not look at the shrine and puzzle within it as one in the same.
 

thePlinko

What’s the character limit on this? Aksnfiskwjfjsk
You don't have to add your own rules though. There are already some in place. You just don't like how vague they are.
Vague rules is effectively the same as no rules.

I disagree. Having multiple choices/ways to complete something is not inherently a good or bad thing. In fact, it's a reflection of the real world. These games do a pretty good job at that.
Multiple choices =\= near limitless choices. Multiple choices is fine, TotK goes beyond “multiple choices. That is absolutely an inherently bad thing.

There are many puzzles that don't give us an abundance of choices. You also can't just use a rocket shield to bypass the whole thing.
Few and far between. at least half of the shrines in the game (that arent just blessings) can either be solved by doing that or simply using recall on a single object.

It does, because you're not actually solving the puzzle. You're just skipping it. People could skip nearly all of BotW and go defeat Calamity Ganon, but that doesn't make that game unfinished.
Right, I’m not solving the puzzle and yet I’m still being rewarded for solving it. Your only two options here are that the puzzle is unfinished or the reward was never meant to be connected to the puzzle to begin with (which is not only clearly not supposed to be the case, but would also mean that the puzzle is completely pointless).

This is also subjective though. For me, these worlds are more enriching than ANY Zelda game before it. Ruins scattered throughout. Traveling merchants. People being attacked by monsters. Caves. Different weather conditions and terrains. Etc etc. I get it if you don't appreciate the environmental storytelling that these games provide, but for me, it makes me want to engage even more with it. There are points of interest everywhere I turn.
What environmental storytelling? Copy and paste ruins scattered about with no rhyme or reason? Traveling merchants that all stay next to the exact same town? The environmental storytelling in both of these games is pitiful. Fallout alone has had better environmental storytelling as early as 1997.

Traveling the overworld should be tedious without proper resources though.
It’s tedious with or without resources. I shouldn’t have to spend a half hour climbing mountains just to get to the next tower only for the next town to be another half hour away.

There's also many things to do along the way. Just like i pointed out for TotK, those kinds of things were there for BotW. Not to the same extent, but still. You seem to not enjoy little things that enrich the world, and that's OK.
Because there’s nothing in BotW or TotK that enrich the world.

I disagree. They give off the illusion of being different. That's because they use different set pieces and environments.
That’s just… provably wrong. That’s not something you can “disagree” with.

This is false. I don't remember any adult dungeon in OoT providing much of any world building. SS either for that matter. Not nearly to the extent BotW/TotK dungeons did. It's understandable though. Nintendo wanted players to design their worlds for them. They were very lazy in that department back in the day. (Wink)
The Shadow Temple is a prison and catacomb filled with the corpses of victims during Hyrule’s civil war.

The Spirit Temple is very clearly an old place of worship that’s now being used as the headquarters for the Gerudo.

Great Bay Temple is a water filtration facility for the entirety of Great Bay

Forsaken Fortress is the former headquarters of a group of Pirates that’s now been overrun with Ganons minions

Tower of the Gods is a tower built specifically to test any would-be heroes trying to obtain the Master Sword.

The Earth and Wind temples are places of worship specifically made to power the Master Sword.

Goron Mines is a mining facility. That should be pretty obvious.

Arbiters Grounds is a prison and execution site.

Snowpeak ruins is an old decrepit mansion that has long been abandoned by its previous owners and overrun with monsters and the yeti couple.

City in the Sky is a City in the Sky.

Lanayru mining facility is another mine, this time specifically constructed to mine timeshift stones

Ancient Cistern and Fire Sanctuary are both temples made to house the sacred flames.

Sandship is a cargo ship crewed by robots and taken over by robot pirates because it also stores the sacred flame.

All of these have just as much world building as any of the dungeons in TotK, and far more than the divine beasts. Just because you ignore them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

It's not though. Complete freedom does not mean no rules.
That is the literal definition of freedom.

You can't fuse an infinite amount of items together. Nor can you fuse items in any way you want and have them hold, and work for you.
That’s completely irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that those rules don’t form any sort of meaningful choices.

You can't go through a locked door that it's only entry point is said door.
Of which there are maybe 4 of throughout the entire game?

You cant navigate the depths adequately without a light source.
Light sources that are dotted everywhere throughout the depths

You cant jump from high altitudes and survive without any proper safety precaution.
it is literally impossible to leave the great plateau in BotW without the paraglider, and it’s not too difficult to obtain it in TotK either.
That's not the same as saying taking the easiest route possible is the point of the game. Again, if that were true. Everyone would've skipped to Calamity Ganon in BotW.
That is true specifically because people didn’t do that. As much as I don’t enjoy being able to walk straight to Ganon it’s the one part of the game where they actually up the difficulty. Regardless of if you can do that or not it’s still not necessarily the easiest route to take.

No, I'm not confused. He did implement the philosophy back then. That's his philosophy for the series.
You can’t just say “nuh-uh, he totally implemented it” and have it be true. The fact of the matter is that Zelda 1 is mechanically, structurally, and atmospherically nothing like BotW or TotK, despite the fact that it very much could’ve been. Anybody who’s played the game any time this past decade could tell you that.
Nope, not even close. You're very confused on what unfinished means.
adjective: unfinished
1. not finished or concluded; incomplete.

The puzzles do not have the boundaries that are fundamentally required to be a puzzle. Therefore they are unfinished.


If you aren't using the pieces to the puzzle, to complete the shrine, I'd say you are leaving the puzzle unfinished. Flip side is I can complete the puzzle, and leave the shrine without gaining the blessing. I do not look at the shrine and puzzle within it as one in the same.
You are really struggling to find a way to justify this, huh?

“This jigsaw puzzle that I paid $70 for didn’t come out of the box pre-cut. It’s not unfinished, it’s just my job to cut it however I want!”

Do you seriously not see how ridiculous that is?
 
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Vague rules is effectively the same as no rules.
Disagree. Oh well

Multiple choices =\= near limitless choices. Multiple choices is fine, TotK goes beyond “multiple choices. That is absolutely an inherently bad thing.
The amount of choices in the game are a lot closer to 1, than they are limitless. Even in the extreme cases.

All of these have just as much world building as any of the dungeons in TotK, and far more than the divine beasts. Just because you ignore them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Lol not even close. As I said, those dungeons provided minimal storytelling. Outside of what you stated, that's about all there is to those temples. Devs were much lazier about that stuff back then though. Lots was left to the imagination back then.


That’s completely irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that those rules don’t form any sort of meaningful choices.
Maybe in your opinion


Light sources that are dotted everywhere throughout the depths
Let OP know. They had a lot of trouble with the depths saying they couldn't see.


That is true specifically because people didn’t do that. As much as I don’t enjoy being able to walk straight to Ganon it’s the one part of the game where they actually up the difficulty. Regardless of if you can do that or not it’s still not necessarily the easiest route to take.
Doesn't matter. It can still be done. Therefore BotW is an unfinished game based on your logic.


You can’t just say “nuh-uh, he totally implemented it” and have it be true.
I'm saying it's true because he's the one that said he implemented it.


You are really struggling to find a way to justify this, huh?

“This jigsaw puzzle that I paid $70 for didn’t come out of the box pre-cut. It’s not unfinished, it’s just my job to cut it however I want!”

Do you seriously not see how ridiculous that is?
The problem is you are not using the word unfinished where it's warranted. Maybe figure out a different word or something. Idk what else to say to you at this point. Maybe someone else can say things in a way that would resonate with you better.
 

thePlinko

What’s the character limit on this? Aksnfiskwjfjsk
The amount of choices in the game are a lot closer to 1, than they are limitless. Even in the extreme cases.
If you really want to be pedantic about it sure, but there are still far too many options for it to be well designed.

Lol not even close. As I said, those dungeons provided minimal storytelling. Outside of what you stated, that's about all there is to those temples. Devs were much lazier about that stuff back then though. Lots was left to the imagination back then.
The new dungeons provide minimal storytelling too.
Maybe in your opinion
It’s not an opinionated thing. In game design, any option apart from the easiest one will always be worthless
Let OP know. They had a lot of trouble with the depths saying they couldn't see.
Yeah, when flying a big airplane. In most other circumstances the depths were a minor inconvenience.

Doesn't matter. It can still be done. Therefore BotW is an unfinished game based on your logic.
Then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the logic. I do think that BotW is unfinished in a lot of regards, but that by itself is not the reason why. Skipping content can be a good thing if the act of skipping the content is a challenge in and of itself.
I'm saying it's true because he's the one that said he implemented it.
1. No he didn’t. 2. Even if he did, it’s not reflected in the game whatsoever so we can take that statement with a grain of salt. Remember, these are the same guys who said that “Super Mario Galaxy is the first true successor to Super Mario 64.”
The problem is you are not using the word unfinished where it's warranted. Maybe figure out a different word or something. Idk what else to say to you at this point. Maybe someone else can say things in a way that would resonate with you better.
No, unfinished is the perfect word for it. Incomplete, half-baked, half-finished. Take your pick. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of puzzles in this game (and also in EoW) intentionally lack something that is fundamentally required in both puzzle design and game design as a whole.
 

Jimmu

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Unlocking this thread so that those who would like to continue discussion on this topic are able as we have cleaned up the thread.

Please be mindful of treating others with respect when debating.
 
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No, unfinished is the perfect word for it. Incomplete, half-baked, half-finished. Take your pick. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of puzzles in this game (and also in EoW) intentionally lack something that is fundamentally required in both puzzle design and game design as a whole.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what unfinished means, nor what objectively means. You're trying to apply a universal standard to the design of the game, and it just doesn't work.

Have a good one though
 
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Vanessa28

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There. fixed it.

I'm no gamer but I’ve got 1,500 hours in because I can casual play after game ends and side missions are done and armor up is still not.
Totally agree!!!!!
This is my fav game of all time. I love everything in it. I love the story and gameplay. So much to do and to explore. Yep, there is always room for improvement but this is with everything. If you search long enough you always find something. But to me the game is perfect.
 

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