Tears of the Kingdom this rivals some of the worst games i've ever played; and i'm a life-long zelda fan

[TheGreatCthulhu]

look at why some of us longtime zelda fans are so outspoken about our distaste for the current direction of the series. Try to see things from our perspective

That's a two way street, bud.

You know that as well as I do.

 

[Ghost of Mikeys Past]

That's a two way street, bud.

You know that as well as I do.

people who enjoy the current direction feel no fear at all, so it's not much of a two way street

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

people who enjoy the current direction feel no fear at all, so it's not much of a two way street

So what you're interested in then is for others to just listen?

Not much of a conversation as much as it is a lecture.

 

[Ghost of Mikeys Past]

So what you're interested in then is for others to just listen?

Not much of a conversation as much as it is a lecture.

yummy, put more of the delicious words in my mouth

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

yummy, put more of the delicious words in my mouth

You literally argued that someone should see things from a different perspective, and when I acknowledged that that goes both ways, there was suddenly an argument for why it doesn't go both ways.

Does taking perspective go both ways or not?

 

[Ghost of Mikeys Past]

You literally argued that someone should see things from a different perspective, and when I acknowledged that that goes both ways, there was suddenly an argument for why it doesn't go both ways.

Does taking perspective go both ways or not?

not equally, no
I'm going to try to circumvent the moronic argumentative philosophy bullcrap you're going to flowchart me through and explain that it's easier for me to understand why people like tears of the kingdom than it is for other people to understand why I don't
And the perspective of plinko and I is that we are fighting to represent something very important to us personally, something from our lives that we genuinely believe could disappear entirely given the state of modern gaming
and what is the opposing view?
Indifference, and a stubborn insistence on "rightness" and wisdom of the masses:
"I feel as though you were back into a corner by Angopik's points. This sounds very much like you were trying to avoid having to admit that Angopik was right. "
It's so very frustrating for people who are supposedly fans of the same series to not listen to the concerns which I feel are very legitimate; a little bit of empathy would go much further here. If people like Malon feel that their likes need to be validated, I'm happy to oblige. I've already mentioned multiple times in this thread that this is the kind of gaming that the typical person enjoys! The typical person doesn't take zelda, or games, as seriously as I do, and that's okay. But it's an added source of frustration when these people who don't take it seriously at all think I also shouldn't take it as seriously without stopping to consider why it's so important to me.
And now I'm frustrated with you for acting all high and mighty, talking about a two way street, without even reading the thread to notice that I did, in fact, ask malon why they had the perspective they do.
so if you're unwilling to truly engage in good faith and keep up this pretense of superiority, kindly don't respond to any of my posts

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

not equally, no
I'm going to try to circumvent the moronic argumentative philosophy bullcrap you're going to flowchart me through and explain that it's easier for me to understand why people like tears of the kingdom than it is for other people to understand why I don't
And the perspective of plinko and I is that we are fighting to represent something very important to us personally, something from our lives that we genuinely believe could disappear entirely given the state of modern gaming
and what is the opposing view?
Indifference, and a stubborn insistence on "rightness" and wisdom of the masses:
"I feel as though you were back into a corner by Angopik's points. This sounds very much like you were trying to avoid having to admit that Angopik was right. "
It's so very frustrating for people who are supposedly fans of the same series to not listen to the concerns which I feel are very legitimate; a little bit of empathy would go much further here. If people like Malon feel that their likes need to be validated, I'm happy to oblige. I've already mentioned multiple times in this thread that this is the kind of gaming that the typical person enjoys! The typical person doesn't take zelda, or games, as seriously as I do, and that's okay. But it's an added source of frustration when these people who don't take it seriously at all think I also shouldn't take it as seriously without stopping to consider why it's so important to me.
And now I'm frustrated with you for acting all high and mighty, talking about a two way street, without even reading the thread to notice that I did, in fact, ask malon why they had the perspective they do.
so if you're unwilling to truly engage in good faith and keep up this pretense of superiority, kindly don't respond to any of my posts

Okay, I now understand where you're coming from.

I might have jumped to that conclusion that only one party was just expected to take perspective, as when it does come to debates, I don't think the point is to win an argument, it's to come to an understanding.

And that's really all I meant by my comments. If I did make you angry, that was unintentional.

 

[Ghost of Mikeys Past]

Okay, I now understand where you're coming from.

I might have jumped to that conclusion that only one party was just expected to take perspective, as when it does come to debates, I don't think the point is to win an argument, it's to come to an understanding.

And that's really all I meant by my comments. If I did make you angry, that was unintentional.

thanks for clarifying

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

thanks for clarifying

Same to you for clarifying, as even reading the posts, I just thought that that got lost in translation.

 

[thePlinko]

This doesn't answer my question.

The answer to your question is yes, and that was the reason.

There are many games that are easier than Zelda. That doesn't mean we designed those games. Easy does not equal unfinished either.

But yes, easy can be less fun or challenging. That's a totally different argument from the one you're trying to make though.

The difference is that games that are easier than Zelda are typically designed to be easy. The puzzles in TotK are designed as if they were difficult only for the developers to conveniently “forget” that you have recall. When most of the elements of a shrine go unused because I strapped a rocket to my shield beforehand and flew around them then yes, the developers didn’t finish their puzzle.

Yes, less repetitive because there are many ways to get to the destination. There's also many other things that can be done along the way. Can't say the same for games like OoT, TP or SS.

All of those things amount to nothing more than the same weapons, materials, korok seeds, and enemies you can find literally anywhere on the map. OoT and TP might have empty overworlds but at least they take significantly less time to cross. Heck, SS barely even has an overworld. 90% of that game is structured content that’s rarely repeated outside of a few boss battles.

When I go back and play those games, it's typically one solution for each dungeon. Now that's boring and repetitive. At least with BotW/TotK I have the option to do things differently.

You’re complaining that the game you chose to replay is the same game. Do you really not see why that’s such a silly argument?

The dungeons in this game also provide more world building than previous ones.

How so?

This is how all Zelda games are though. Again, that was Miyamoto's vision from the beginning. Once you have the necessary items/abilities, progression is much easier.

Literally no Zelda prior to TotK lets you skip past all level design after building an incredibly simple bike with 3 parts. Old Zeldas physically locked you out of certain areas until you found the correct item. Miyamoto’s vision was never to let the player ignore the game he made.

I suggest you go read his early interviews plus ones around the release of BotW. Id suggest ooking into his miniature garden philosophy as well.

This isn’t my first rodeo man, I’m well aware of his miniature garden philosophy, that doesn’t change the fact he very well could’ve implemented that philosophy when he made Zelda 1, and yet he didn’t.

That doesn't change what I said though. OoT's puzzles were very easy. Even as a kid when I first played it. Water Temple included. Boss battles were always simple as well. The Ganondorf/Ganon battle was a joke

It does change what you said. I’m not denying that OoT is an easy game, but it’s nowhere near as easy as BotW or TotK are.

 

[Angopik]

look at why some of us longtime zelda fans are so outspoken about our distaste for the current direction of the series. Try to see things from our perspective

It'd be nice to get a bit more than "I don't like this, therefore it's bad" though

 

[Ghost of Mikeys Past]

It'd be nice to get a bit more than "I don't like this, therefore it's bad" though

I mean, one of the first things plinko said:
"The fact that nearly every single “puzzle” amounts to using the exact same solution because they refuse to add any semblance of actual design."

That doesn't really have anything to do with personal taste; it's just a fact that the vast majority of shrine "puzzles" in tears can be brute-forced with some combination of ultrahand and recall, and the devs didn't bother doing anything to stop it. They leave it up to the player to interact with the shrines in a more intellectually rigorous way, and at that point, why am I playing your game instead of making my own if I have to make my own rules anyway?
It's not how zelda did things for decades
I know you WANT our argument to be "I don't like this, therefore it's bad"
but that's not the whole argument

 

[whatever]

You could make an argument for apathy. I do think aonuma wants to make good games, I just don't think he has the same sort of vision that a producer really needs; he might be better in another role. Unfortunately the industry has shown that walking simulators are massively popular and challenge needs only be imagined to be satisfying

Very well put! I don't know the ratio of involvement between Miyamoto and Aonuma since Oot—I think OoT was largely Miyamoto—but I think MM was largely Aonuma and WW too. You're right about him, and he clearly is able to make exceptionally good games; I hope there's a swan-song left in him, and that he is able to be placed in the correct role, like you say, going forward. Yes, he doesn't have that earthy air of assertion that a producer might otherwise have does he, not that a good game-designer needs such an aspect to their character, but team-leaders do to a certain extent I think—that kind-of 'groundedness' that you can see in someone like Christopher Nolan in the film-industry, for example, Aounuma seems to have a 'lighter' character.

Zelda: Tears Of The Kingdom Is Now The "Highest Rated Game Of All Time" On OpenCritic

And it's Metacritic's highest rated game of 2023

www.nintendolife.com

Gamespot ranks ToTK as the #1 Zelda of all time - Nintendo Switch

For Nintendo Switch on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamespot ranks ToTK as the #1 Zelda of all time".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

I like Alex Olney, but I saw that NL article coming before the game even dropped I reckon. Personally I don't trust game journalist companies anyway and rather look to someone like Arlo for recommendations.

Don't reply to this, you voted to dismiss me as "crazy", so I've nothing left to say to you. Ironic considering the sentiments expressed under your replies. Wasn't aware I'd offended you to deserve to be so rudely called "crazy". Toodles.

@whatever i asked a lot of clarifying questions about your initial post. It'd be nice if you provide more context.

Of course it would. Like I explained, I'm sorry but I'm not able to or don't want to go there for you. Interpret that as not being able to back-up my complaints if you want to—which, to be clear, isn't the case, with infinite time and energy I could delve back in and drag-up and illustrate all of the details that irked me about the game in order to fill out any argument I might want to present—but a little like a crime-victim, it's a pain to have to explain one's case in detail to the other side or to a 'court' if it doesn't look like doing so would yield any satisfaction in any way. I'm not going to persuade you to agree with me: you like the game, you have your reasons for doing so; I dislike it, and have my valid reasons for doing so, and anyone else who didn't like it and reads my post maybe will think "yeah, it was hella annoying for all of those things they listed!" and be satisfied that someone put into words their frustration a little.

And I see you voted to dismiss me as "crazy" so of course I'm not going to engage any further with you ever again in any case.

nah thats crazy lol

What?! what on earth is "crazy" about what you quoted? is hating reddit crazy? is not treading on the enjoyment of others crazy? is writing something that others can read and get some satisfaction from crazy? what on earth are you talking about? isn't it nice and easy to just call someone whose opinion you don't like "crazy", to dismiss what they say as completely ludicrous and wild, so you can retreat back to your comfort-zone having done your hard work of categorising the thing you don't understand or don't like as invalid, irrelevant and negligible and so then let your brain settle back again into its comfortably comatose state.

Now every single slightly difficult piece of terrain in the entire game can be flown over using readily available materials to construct a hoverbike with minimal effort.

That is, if the zonai devices are even allowed "to be be taken out here", and also only if they don't all fall down the hill or slope into the valley or lava below before you can scramble them together.

Worst game? That's just dishonest. Yeah, I could say there was a lot of squandered potential considering they used the map, assets, and engine from BotW but that doesn't make it the worst game ever. Did I expect more? Yes. Was it better than Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace for PC? Yes.

I said it rivals some of the worst games I've played. To my good fortune, I haven't played every bad game in the world, and so don't know what the worst one is, the worst one i've ever played is the elden rings, followed very closely by dear old crashing bandicoots. There's nothing dishonest about my rant, I love The Legend of Zelda and want to see it improve, why would I try and harm it by condemning it as worse than I think it to be, beyond some margin of exaggeration inherent in any angry rant?

i do wish there was more in the depths and the skies but I love this game. I played OoT when it first came out and nothing in between until BOTW. I still tool around with builds for creative ways to take out the enemy. I go to certain areas just to chill and listen to the music. Pro mode without the map makes the BOTW layout interesting again. Giving yourself your own Master Mode rules also makes it interesting. One thing, except for looking for building materials, I never revisit the shrines. In BOTW I did to grind for weapons.

Cool. I had some fun creating my own restrictions in BotW too.

people who enjoy the current direction feel no fear at all, so it's not much of a two way street

Maybe they do. Maybe it's a "if you can't beat them, join them" point of view for some, I dunno.

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

I said it rivals some of the worst games I've played. To my good fortune, I haven't played every bad game in the world, and so don't know what the worst one is, the worst one i've ever played is the elden rings, followed very closely by dear old crashing bandicoots. There's nothing dishonest about my rant, I love The Legend of Zelda and want to see it improve, why would I try and harm it by condemning it as worse than I think it to be, beyond some margin of exaggeration inherent in any angry rant?

Elden Ring as well? Dude, you can say you don't like the games, you can point out specific problems with them, you can trash TotK for damaging the franchise, but to say they (rival) the worst games you've ever played...I mean, it's not like the games are broken or that there isn't fun to be had playing them. Ever played a mobile game? It just seems like you might be overselling the poor quality of the games. If you'd like some recommendations for games worse than Elden Ring and TotK, I'd be happy to point you in the right (wrong) direction!

 

[Angopik]

I mean, one of the first things plinko said:
"The fact that nearly every single “puzzle” amounts to using the exact same solution because they refuse to add any semblance of actual design."

That doesn't really have anything to do with personal taste; it's just a fact that the vast majority of shrine "puzzles" in tears can be brute-forced with some combination of ultrahand and recall, and the devs didn't bother doing anything to stop it.

That's not really any different from past Zelda games though. Find keys, unlock doors to boss, defeat and move on. Same thing, over and over.

Both of us would be leaving out all the meat and focusing on the bones.

They leave it up to the player to interact with the shrines in a more intellectually rigorous way, and at that point, why am I playing your game instead of making my own if I have to make my own rules anyway?

Totk does give more freedom, but you're still working within the rules of the game. You still have to use abilities, or items, etc to complete things.

It's not how zelda did things for decades

What you're saying about the shrines amounts to them being too easy and repetitive. Yes, that is how Zelda has been for decades.

I know you WANT our argument to be "I don't like this, therefore it's bad"
but that's not the whole argument

Wrong. I don't want your argument to be anything other than what it is. What I want is more nuanced answers, and not acting as if you are the arbiters of what is or isn't good game design. I've seen the word objectively thrown around too much in this thread.