This Game's AI - Do You Like It or No?

[Random Person]

I have read all the replies thus far, and I agree with JuiceJ and theBlueReptile. The AI in SS is the best its been so far. Enemies trying to block your sword based on your position is not stupid. (SS) Rushing to kill an enemy while he's swinging wildly is stupid. (What is being suggest). I was genuinely impressed with the AI as far as Zelda standards go. And to say they didn't get harder as time went along, I disagree completely. Bobkoblins used electric swords later on, those big fat sumo things were very tough and then on top got a shield that didn't break. I do agree that they don't increase alot. This is because as you progress through the game, you're supposed to get a feeling that you're getting stronger. Zelda could go the RPG route and put a leveling up system, but we all saw how that turned out (Zelda II).

They aren't the hardest in the world, I also agree with theBlueReptile in that I don't want to have to stop and take several minutes to defeat one minion. Essentially what you're asking for here is for every enemy to be like OoT's Dark Link. Random mobs should not be THAT difficult because they are everywhere. If they were that difficult, people would get tired of playing the game just from going from one place to another. That difficulty should be saved for temple-like areas.

To make the characters too difficult would also goes against the character. Moblins (and other creatures similar to them) and other mobs are supposed to be simple minded creatures. Link is supposed to be the novice swordsman who gets better than them over time. Make them intelligent, and it goes against one of the very long traditions of Zelda. Things like stalfoes and darknuts are supposed to be smarter, but still not as good as you once you get to them.

And lastly, enemies do attack you if they see you. Its not like you can just walk past any bokoblin. That's the whole purpose of the bokoblin horn. They call for back-up when they see you.

All in all, the SS AI is not as smart as a human, but they aren't stupid enough to make them bad AI. They're just sticking to character and making it so that gamers aren't frustrated every time they see one.

 

[Ventus]

Bobkoblins used electric swords later on

Essentially what you're asking for here is for every enemy to be like OoT's Dark Link. Random mobs should not be THAT difficult because they are everywhere. If they were that difficult, people would get tired of playing the game just from going from one place to another. That difficulty should be saved for temple-like areas.

Things like stalfoes and darknuts are supposed to be smarter, but still not as good as you once you get to them.

And lastly, enemies do attack you if they see you. Its not like you can just walk past any bokoblin. That's the whole purpose of the bokoblin horn. They call for back-up when they see you.

Bokoblins still have the same AI, stun rod or no. They're jokes all the same.

I'm not asking for Dark Link difficulty, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. All I want are enemies that are SMART -- tracking my sword isn't smart when that's the only thing you do, ESPECIALLY since I can loop you all day and all night. Take a look at Ghirahim and the final boss. Easiest bosses to defeat, beacuse they're so stupid. Assuming you fight OoT's Dark Link with the same general conditions (sword and shield only, no biggoron swrd), you'll easily have more trouble with DL than you will Ghirahim or final boss. Why? Dark Link is a smart enemy, he's dynamic, he's GOOD. Is it so much to ask for a good boss or good field enemies?

Stalfos' and Darknuts are supposed to be an actual challenge. Unfortunately, they're not (excluding any Darknut-like enemy in LoZ and AoL).

Their backup is naught but MOAR Bokoblins. Yes, the average player will have trouble, get intimidated, etc. But I'm not an average player. I need excitement. I need difficulty. I need to feel rewarded for my endeavors.

I mean, think about it:
Do you feel a better sense of accomplishment from finishing off
-30x Dark Links one after another
or
-30x Stalchildren one after another?
^That may be a gauntlet setting, not saying field enemies need to be THAT good^

Would you rather deal with a final boss that has the dynamic play styles of Morpha, Ganondorf (OoT not Ganon), Bongo Bongo and can switch them at will, or would you rather fighter a joke like Gohma (OoT/TP)?

Of course, people have different opinions. Nintendo could very easily implement a difficulty switch -- for the less adventorous, easygoing players there could be Easy mode. For the more hardcore players, Hard mode. Call of Duty can do it. Halo does it. I'm PRETTY sure Mario Kart does it. Zelda can do it too.

 

[JuicieJ]

Bokoblins still have the same AI, stun rod or no. They're jokes all the same.

Um... I'm pretty sure they were dumber in WW and TP. Just sayin'. And I'm pretty sure most enemies in Zelda as a whole have been "jokes" by what you're depicting the term to mean. Enemies in Zelda are dumb-asses. They always have been. They were more inteligent in SS, even though they still weren't very smart. (Example: Enemies that run away from bombs.)

I'm not asking for Dark Link difficulty, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. All I want are enemies that are SMART -- tracking my sword isn't smart when that's the only thing you do, ESPECIALLY since I can loop you all day and all night. Take a look at Ghirahim and the final boss. Easiest bosses to defeat, beacuse they're so stupid. Assuming you fight OoT's Dark Link with the same general conditions (sword and shield only, no biggoron swrd), you'll easily have more trouble with DL than you will Ghirahim or final boss. Why? Dark Link is a smart enemy, he's dynamic, he's GOOD. Is it so much to ask for a good boss or good field enemies?

Ganon in OoT. All you have to do is shoot him with a Light Arrow and stab his tail. And he lets you. It's super easy, one of the easiest fights in the series. I'd call that pretty stupid. King Dodongo. Throw a bomb in his mouth and hit him (Scaldera did the same, but required tactics and directional swinging). And, as far as Dark Link goes, he's kinda smart, but it's more about that he mimicks Link's moves. If not for that, he'd be pretty easy.

Stalfos' and Darknuts are supposed to be an actual challenge. Unfortunately, they're not (excluding any Darknut-like enemy in LoZ and AoL).

Stalfos in the N64 days: Wait until shield is lowered and strike. Stalfos in SS: Attack in a specific direction, requiring actual thought and effort.

Their backup is naught but MOAR Bokoblins. Yes, the average player will have trouble, get intimidated, etc. But I'm not an average player. I need excitement. I need difficulty. I need to feel rewarded for my endeavors.

That's pretty selfish.

Would you rather deal with a final boss that has the dynamic play styles of Morpha, Ganondorf (OoT not Ganon), Bongo Bongo and can switch them at will, or would you rather fighter a joke like Gohma (OoT/TP)?.

Morpha? That was a terrible and incredibly easy boss. "Oh, I'm in an arm, just grab me and stab me, herp derp." Bongo Bongo was pretty good. However, SS's bosses are pretty much the same as him.

Of course, people have different opinions. Nintendo could very easily implement a difficulty switch -- for the less adventorous, easygoing players there could be Easy mode. For the more hardcore players, Hard mode. Call of Duty can do it. Halo does it. I'm PRETTY sure Mario Kart does it. Zelda can do it too.

I do hope they do that in the next Zelda title. That would allow the more experienced players to have a challenge that suits them better, and, more importantly, it would stop all the pointless complaints about difficulty.

 

[Koosholts]

Every single enemey in Zelda has had some of the dumbest AI's that I've seen on a major release console video game. Arguing which game had a better AI is pointless because they are all equally terrible in their own respects.

Skyward Sword: All you have to do is sit there and wait for an enemey to change defensive positions and swing in that directions. If your lazy like me, you'll sit there in front of them and wait a few minutes for them to attack you and then just shield bash them for a super easy kill.

Every Other Game: Blindly swing at the enemey until you win. Every so often pay attention to what your doing to make sure you haven't lost too many hearts.

Both ways are equally pathetic. The average enemey in Zelda has (and I think will) been mediocre and I feel Nintendo does this on purpose. We can't have Dark Souls type enemeys in Zelda because if Nintendo implemented that than they'd loose a large chunk of their consumers. Zelda is a casual game, you can't deny it. Casual games have casual enemeys, and you can't deny that either. It's not a bad thing, it's in some ways (a lot of ways) a good thing.

How is it a good thing? Well, let's assume that your average mob in Skyward Sword is comparable to the difficulty of Dark Link. If I had to go through Skyward Sword's surface facing replenishing enemeys that had the difficulty of Dark Link, I'd turn off my Wii, go to Gamestop, and return the game.

 

[Random Person]

Bokoblins still have the same AI, stun rod or no. They're jokes all the same.
Their backup is naught but MOAR Bokoblins. Yes, the average player will have trouble, get intimidated, etc. But I'm not an average player. I need excitement. I need difficulty. I need to feel rewarded for my endeavors.
[...]
Of course, people have different opinions. Nintendo could very easily implement a difficulty switch -- for the less adventorous, easygoing players there could be Easy mode. For the more hardcore players, Hard mode. Call of Duty can do it. Halo does it. I'm PRETTY sure Mario Kart does it. Zelda can do it too.

If you have to say "Yes, the average Person doesn't like it, but..." you should catch yourself right there when talking about entertainment. Entertainment is catering to the average Person or average Person of a certain audience. In this case, this game is catering to the average Zelda players and new incoming players. They want to please the masses. That means that they are going to make decisions that more people will like, not just an individual or category of people that make up a minority of their audience. Zelda II is disliked by many Zelda fans and one of the reasons was its overly difficult mobs. Thus proving that the masses of Zelda fans do not like this element to their games. Nintendo is not going to do something that has proven to not work... *thinks about that statement*... okay, they SHOULDN'T do something that has proven to not work.

The hardcore mode, I don't really have a complaint. SS does have a hero mode, but forcing you to do it only after you've beaten the game is... iffy, so I can kinda see your point there.