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Things That Could Hurt the Game--most Likely?

DuckNoises

Gone (Wind) Fishin'
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Location
Montreal, QC, Canada
I think the game is going to be great. That does not mean there can't be things to consider that are worth worrying about...for me it is #3 (the low poly count trees look like **GARBAGE**) and #8 (it's hard to make magic happen, even for Nintendo).

Well, the reason the environmental graphics looked bad in the E3 demo (if I'm correct in assuming that's what you're referring to) was because Nintendo merely wanted it to be a sandbox demonstration of new game mechanics, namely controls (which had some unfortunate mishaps). While character models were designed and represented well, many of the environmental objects were not given much attention -- mostly because they didn't need it, as it was a gameplay demonstration first and foremost. Most of them were crudely constructed, temporary objects designed to spruce up a playground designed with the sole purpose of demonstrating some of Link's new abilities and items. Nintendo has confirmed in interviews that the demo at E3 is not an actual portion of Skyward Sword, and that it was merely a sandbox environment; that being said, there shouldn't be much concern over the lacklustre demo.

As to the original question of your thread, I am not too concerned with the controls. Rather, I think they will add a lot of depth and fun to the game. Conversely to how I think the poorly designed controls brought down and exacerbated the issues of Phantom Hourglass (my qualms with which are explained in this thread: http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?10754-Why-Do-People-Dislike-Phantom-Hourglass/page4 ), I think the controls in Skyward Sword (if done properly) would have very positive outcomes on the game, as I've explained before, in this thread (which actually eludes to the Phantom Hourglass one):
DuckNoises said:
Baysiderulez said:
I think you bring up some very good points.

Although i think given time, and after dying several times I do think the synapses in your brain would start to function faster, as they could predict your opponents next move, and you'd prepare yourself for defense or offense depending on the situation. I wouldn't underestimate the power of your brain just yet, lass.

Although you bring up a very good point as well with 'difficulty.' I am an advocate for making the Zelda games harder, but at the same time I think I should clarify. Should a game be difficult to play because of the physical controls, or should a game be difficult to play because enemies are genuinely hard? I do not think the controls should be what makes the game hard. I think the game taxing your methods of thinking, Not knowing an enemies weak spot, puzzles, and other mind intensive apsects is what should make a Zelda game hard... Not ones ability to use the controller.




I agree wholeheartedly with this, and it's when a game tries to simulate difficulty with controls or gimmicks (that would otherwise be managed by game design) that really, really drives me mad. That's the reason why I resented Phantom Hourglass so much, but I'll not open that Pandora's Box again. Anyway, Athenian, I don't think you'll have much to fear. The brain can adapt very quickly to these kinds of scenarios, and I think that this was the exact intent of proper, responsive motion controls -- to simulate an immersing, realistic-feeling experience. If the controls become easily abused or are not synchronized with the game play and game design itself, then it will begin to feel forced and unnatural. This is probably what you find trouble with; you resent the design, so you almost subconsciously refuse to adapt. I think this is something that a lot of people could relate to.

However, I'm optimistic that this won't be the case with Skyward Sword, because I feel that the control scheme they have chosen requires the game design to be reflective of the play style. As such, I think combat will feel more natural, and therefore more rewarding. What excites me the most is that the combat system could be horribly abused given how much freedom you are allowed; the only way to prevent this abuse is by giving the enemies an adapting strategy, which requires you to adapt your strategy. I'm almost certain this is what they were going for with Skyward Sword, as Miyamoto attempted to demonstrate at E3.

Take the instance at E3 where Miyamoto was fighting a Bokoblin (or whatever the dickens they're called now; you know, the ugly things that seemingly replaced Moblins :P) .It was a little hard to tell because of all the infrared pollution, but as Miyamoto moved himself around, the Bokoblin adjusted its stance and its weapon. If Miyamoto went in for a horizontal slash, the Bokoblin would position its sword vertically to block it. The only way Miyamoto was able to damage it was by alternating his method of attack; after hitting the Bokoblin, it adjusted its stance and sword according to Link's actions, and would continue to do so until it was killed. I feel this is an absolutely monumental progression for Zelda, the notion that enemies will learn. This will make each individual enemy possess AI, and it will feel much more like legitimate combat because there won't be as much repetition, because enemies will adjust themselves every time they recognize what you plan to do. This ultimately makes combat so much more rewarding, because few enemies will feel like they're inherently easy. Each battle will be its own battle of wits, and the execution is only half of the battle this time around. I feel that this will make combat much more engaging and immersing, simply because it involves more of the brain. If Nintendo can implement this correctly, I think the combat in Skyward Sword will be monumental.​

However, the two I am most concerned with are #2 and #8 (assuming you mean magic as a nostalgic, wondrous quality, rather than the magic meter); these often go hand in hand. I feel these have been problems seen recently in the Zelda franchise, most notably Twilight Princess, which I am also highly critical of. The near absence of charm in Twilight Princess was one of its biggest flaws, and made it seem like it was being intentionally pretentious, which I truly resented. I am optimistic that they have learned from (what I consider to be) recent mistakes and re-introduce a sense of charm and originality, which I feel is what makes some of the best Zelda games held in high regard; it was very much the revolutionary aspects of OoT, in addition to an engaging (and what I felt as a truly "magical") storyline and in-game world, that earned it its high acclaim. The perfect balance between the familiar and the foreign is what makes a game great; the foreign being the undiscovered, mysterious sense of adventure and the tantalizing unknown, and the familiar being a comforting sense of nostalgia and immediate closeness to the game that draws you in, and makes you look at some of the foreign aspects in a better light. I think that SS's connection with OoT in terms of story will give it a good, nostalgic element, that may constitute a large amount of the familiarity. This kind of connection between games is something that makes a gamer light up, to see recognition (or perhaps in this case, foreshadowing) of their previous achievements and memories.

I am truly optimistic for SS, but mind you, I don't think it will be without it's flaws.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
Well, the reason the environmental graphics looked bad in the E3 demo (if I'm correct in assuming that's what you're referring to) was because Nintendo merely wanted it to be a sandbox demonstration of new game mechanics, namely controls (which had some unfortunate mishaps). While character models were designed and represented well, many of the environmental objects were not given much attention -- mostly because they didn't need it, as it was a gameplay demonstration first and foremost. Most of them were crudely constructed, temporary objects designed to spruce up a playground designed with the sole purpose of demonstrating some of Link's new abilities and items. Nintendo has confirmed in interviews that the demo at E3 is not an actual portion of Skyward Sword, and that it was merely a sandbox environment; that being said, there shouldn't be much concern over the lacklustre demo.

Ha! This is pure speculation. I'll believe it when I see it. I don't see why we should believe they are going to make the trees so much better...nobody has said, "Oh, just you wait, we are going to fix those stupid looking trees". As of now, all we know is what they presented us. Your response is pure wishful thinking...I hope you are right...but you are basically just making it up...
 

DuckNoises

Gone (Wind) Fishin'
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Location
Montreal, QC, Canada
Ha! This is pure speculation. I'll believe it when I see it. I don't see why we should believe they are going to make the trees so much better...nobody has said, "Oh, just you wait, we are going to fix those stupid looking trees". As of now, all we know is what they presented us. Your response is pure wishful thinking...I hope you are right...but you are basically just making it up...

Accusing a mod of making things up? Scandalous! D:

But as far as I know, I'm not making this up.

IGN Interview with Aonuma at E3 said:
IGN: So the game itself that's on the show floor seems like it's just a demo made specifically for the E3 show floor -- it's just a bunch of pockets of things to do. Was there anything that you wanted to show us that you didn't have time to get into this demo version?

Aonuma:
Yeah. One of the things I would have loved to have shown -- and something we actually have ready -- is more of the dungeon elements. You know, where you have to solve puzzles to move from room to room or advance to the next part of the level. That's something that's very Zelda-esque and something we do have ready, but we wanted to focus on the sword interaction and the fighting sequences here at E3. Most of what you're seeing in this demo will appear in-game. We wanted to concentrate on that seamless interaction of switching items and switching to your sword and didn't want to break that up by introducing puzzle elements. But yeah, that is one thing I would have liked to have shown here.

Granted, Aonuma does say "Most of what you're seeing in this demo will appear in-game", but it sounds like he's referring exclusively to combat. I could be wrong, but honestly, why would they focus on polishing environmental graphics for an E3 demo? It's just a demo, after all.

Article from http://wii.ign.com/articles/109/1099184p2.html.
 

Master Sword13

thatjoshoverthere
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Location
South Carolina
I think the only thing or things that could even try to possibly ruin SS would be a lack of dungeons and side quests. Don't get me wrong, MM was still fun without 8 through 10 dungeons, but I was just unsatisfied with 4.
 

PhantomTriforce

I am a Person of Interest
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Location
Ganon's Tower
I'm thinking 4 and 7 right now. The controls are new, so there is a chance that no one likes it, and that's what ruins the game. Another factor might be that the game is just too short. Take Majora's Mask for example - it was a beautiful game, but it was just too short, and ruined it for me. So I would like a long game, longer than TP.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
Accusing a mod of making things up? Scandalous! D:

I could give a year-old fart less if you are a mod.

Granted, Aonuma does say "Most of what you're seeing in this demo will appear in-game", but it sounds like he's referring exclusively to combat. I could be wrong, but honestly, why would they focus on polishing environmental graphics for an E3 demo? It's just a demo, after all.

Ummm, yes, he said most of what you are seeing will appear in-game...why do you think he is only referring to gameplay?? He did not say anything about the graphics, and certainly did not make any apologies for his embarrassing, heinous trees. Why would they wan to polish up environmental graphics for an E3 demo? Are you kidding me??? Well, um, because it is the world's biggest game show and all of the most important people in the industry and all of the biggest video game fans will be watching!! Because it is the FIRST IMPRESSION that people are going to have of your game, and you never get a second chance to make it...so, yeah, I don't see any reason to believe they showed us some garbage that they are going to spruce up later...I HOPE that they do fix some of this stuff, and maybe they will (because they should!) but I would not be at all surprised if they did not.

I do hope you are correct, I really do.
 

Ganondork

goo
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
One thing I recall reading is that there is a stamina bar now. That may actually pose a challenge, you might be halfway up a building then you're out of stamina. I sincerely hope that it won't be like that...
 

Aero_Dynamic

エアロダイナミック
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Location
...?
Look everyone, the stamina bar ain't that bad. People say you're gonna lose strength from climbing, but doesn't anyone see a jump button on the screen?? It's so you can go ultra quick up those vines and walls! I like the stamina bar, it adds a good amount of realism to the game. Plus, it can add challenge to it.
 

Jupiter

Bringer of Jollity
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Location
Great Lakes
Showing the demo separated real Zelda fans from posers, so I'm glad the demo was as it was.

Pardon? And responses in the Zelda forums separate the those in the upper 80% of the bell curve and the rest...

Please explain your post, it makes no sense...are you implying, with your panoptic, all-knowing authority, that I am not a "real Zelda fan"?? Being a real fan of a franchise does not mean that you dumbly accept everything that goes into it...it is not unconditional love.
 

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