Things That Are on Your Mind

[ExLight]

i have to deny myself
i have to follow what God wants, He knows what's best

I'm sorry Echo, but this reasoning will never make sense to me.
God made you as you are, if you're forcing yourself to change you're forcing yourself to fit what other humans expect, not to what God had planned for you.

I still believe you're letting other people beliefs get in your head rather than build your own with God. I'll strongly insist you should stop using your family's experience with God/ Holy Spirit as a reference, and instead seek your own without expecting anything like whatever they describe. Your Faith isn't and should not be the exact same as your church's or parents'. This is the whole point of finding your relationship with God, it's between you and Him.

What your father and family see as irreverent is their belief and their faith. You can have your own on whether or not God would approve, and honestly I personally don't think an almighty and kind being such as God gives a flying **** on whether good people enjoy metal or people of the same gender/sex or a few other things people might've told you as sacrilegious.

Please try to distract yourself a bit. Stay safe. We love you.
I'm sorry things been leaving you depressed and anxious again lately.

 

[Echolight]

Probably giving unwelcome advice, again, but here goes. I apologize in advance that this may be blunt but I think this is something important you need to think about as soon as possible because the all or nothing mindset you're facing right now is cruel to you.

The problem is you've made these things too much the focus of your identity, to the point that people rejecting them is synonymous to them rejecting you. For instance, being closeted is much more painful if a person feels like they're hiding their entire self to that, and if you have made being lgbt that central to your self concept then it's self explanatory why that is destructive to you. And if you feel you have to change who you are in order to be religious then you've gone way too far with these labels. Even with the metal thing, you kind of went all in as if you can't just enjoy the music; you have to absorb the subculture and the headbanging and all of that? And obviously now you think that these things cannot coexist with faith and the only reason they can't is because you are processing them in absolutes. I know you're going through a lot right now and it's hard to think clearly when upset (don't need to explain that to me at all :/) but, I cannot sit by and watch you spiral over something that I know is a huge contributor to this dilemma.

The amount you talk about being queer on ZD is kind of alarming and unhealthy and frankly it doesn't surprise me that it has altered the way you think this drastically. And to my previous post, you can't ever just acknowledge a fictional character has a cool design, it's always something about your sexuality and it's both uncomfortable and saddening that this is the way you're interacting with things. That is not to say being queer is bad; but you are utterly obsessed with it--of course any resistance you face, even if not directed at you, is no longer thought provoking things to consider and is instead people disapproving of you entirely--because you have given that label too much power over you. And that is not fair to you. You shouldn't simplify yourself like that. You are the only you there is.

you know why I talk about it so much? You wanna know why? Because I can't ****ing talk about it with anyone else. Nobody. You are all I have. You are the only people in the whole world I can talk to regularly about this kind of thing. I don't have anyone in real life. Nobody I can hang out with regularly. My friends...I see them once every few months for a couple hours. I don't have a phone. I don't keep connections with people irl because I don't ****ing have a phone. My only close friends are you all. And I crave acceptance and support and love because I don't have any in environment around me. They say I love you but they ****ing don't. They don't. I have seen my grandma's face when she saw a lesbian couple. I saw my mom's uncomfortable-ness when she saw a lgbtq+ commercial. I saw my dad's anger when I played a cover of a pop song a few years back that had an overly feminine guy singing. I heard my sis call it weird, gross, not good, bad. They're all going to think that, and then they'll connect it to me. I can't let them connect it to me.

What the hell are you talking about, it is myself. It's me. It's part of me. That they don't like a part of me, they don't like who I am. They'll always say, I love you, but do they love me if they hate who I am? Who loves somebody and then rants about who I am at the same time. I should think out of all people you would know what I'm talking about. Oh, I love frax, I really do, but man do I hate people that like bugs, they annoy me so much, I simply can't accept it. Do you see? Do you ****ing see?

So what if I obsess. I love myself, I'm sorry I'm a horny teenager that sees girls as hot. I'm sorry I'm so open. I don't say everything I think yknow. I feel guilt and shame for so long because of the thoughts I have. You don't know what the church did to me, how it obsesses over marriage and sex and dating but at the same ****ing time shames any of members who aren't married about having sexual feelings. I thought they were intrusive thoughts. I was worried. I hated myself. I still feel shame sometimes when I lie in bed. I wanted to escape the shame here.

**** I can like characters without being sexually attracted. I just talk about the characters I really really like the most because I love them.

Thought provoking? Why the **** should I consider it? If it's against lgbtq+, that's discrimination, I will stand up for people who are suicidal and anxious and depressed, I won't stand for hateful talk and harms others and hurts me.

You know so many people die because of this.

I don't obsess, you may see it that way, I just love who I am. I can't mix those two together. I can't mix the church's view and my view together, it's either me, or the church. Me, or God. I either live in constant shame and self-denial, or love who I am.

HOW DO I NOT MAKE THIS A CENTRAL POINT WHEN THE CHURCH MAKES MARRIAGE A CENTRAL POINT

hhrhghhh

you don't understand. Catholics don't focus on this, they don't pressure marriage or anything like that. I am faced with a future I don't want. It expected of me to get married and have a family. There are wards specifically for people to get together and get married. A gay person doesn't fit in the mold. The whole thing is about family. I'm so scared for my future. I'm so sick of myself, why do I have to deal with this, why do I have this, why is it wrong. Why was I born into this church when I'm incompatible with it. I don't want kids. I don't want to give birth one day, it's terrifying. I'd rather adopt or just have pets.

I love metal by the way. I don't ****ing care if you see it as being obsessed or trying to fit in with every other metalhead. No I don't. Okay. I like metal because I do. And when I like stuff, I'm passionate about it. I want to share it. I want show my love for it. I want to share it with you because I love you. I want you to enjoy stuff with me, I want a connection. And if that takes the form of little joke posts about headbanging and stuff, I don't ****ing care. I absolutely enjoy it, and I thought I was showing my love it clearly. I guess too much love and it becomes annoying.

I'm sorry I talk about it. I'll shut up. I knew it. I knew it I knew it I knew it.

 

[Fraxinus]

I thought a little honesty would have helped but I think you misunderstood it entirely. But I think it's further making the point. You're focusing too much on the division and not the common ground. I'm not blaming you; it's an invitation to alienate yourself, though, and you may require introspection about what you actually expect out of this... do you want to stay in a state where you are doubting yourself, doubting God, doubting others? I would hope you aren't but I can understand the perspective where you cling to song lyrics and take them too literally, that they are prolonging those doubts instead of helping you. They help to make you feel understood but they prevent you from progressing past that state of mind ...Does that make sense?

And of course it is discrimination, I'm not saying it's not, but acts of rebellion are just going to make people more reluctant to accept those things. Rebellion is meant to scare and upset people. That's how it always goes, okay? There are so many facets that make you who you are, please don't let one thing take the spotlight just because that's what other people keep talkinga bout. It's making you lose sight of yourself in the same way it's making others lose sight of what's important to being a good Christian. If you can be aware of how forced that focus is, you can learn to get around it. As long as you are aware there is more to who you are than being lgbt then you can keep your footing. We all have people dislike us for things we can't control.

Your bug comparison doesn't really work because I actually find solace in people hating stuff that matters to me. I've learned to do that. Sometimes I prefer it because those people are not going to objectify me. I'd rather be hated for an aspect of myself than someone liking me solely for that aspect of myself. That's worse. That is so much worse. Nothing else about me matters but that I'm lgbt? Horrible.

And I'm not attacking you for getting into the metal subculture but for the sake of bringing up how you interact with labels, it felt very relevant. I could say the same of you with the furry fandom--which maybe even would be a better example because in my time away from ZD I've met a lot of people who enjoy anthro animals, even have ones they use essentially as sonas and do not call themselves furries. There was a huge discussion about it in a server I'm in because a lot of people were bothered by being shoved into boxes. And I remember the post you made when you 'came out' about being a furry, and it was a black and white thing like that. I don't know how to share this observation wtih you without it coming across as a little mean but I think it's something you need to reevaluate because there is no obligation to interact with labels in the same way other people do. This applies to something as trivial as taste and music and something as serious as a relationship with God. Just because other people in your church are not lgbt doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with Him and be lgbt.

I know you don't really like me much anymore but I really do care about you. From one lgbt person to another, as someone who had to overcome this same obsession due to being shut down by my family... the obsession is more harmful in the long term. It helps for feeling visible, but it does a lot more over time to hurt you; it keeps your mental health in a stasis and that's really why I wanted to speak up. I just didn't know how to say it without it being somewhat harsh because truths are unpleasant and I know that.

If you are taking a break from ZD, please take care of yourself.

 

[Pokémaniac13]

you know why I talk about it so much? You wanna know why? Because I can't ****ing talk about it with anyone else. Nobody. You are all I have. You are the only people in the whole world I can talk to regularly about this kind of thing. I don't have anyone in real life. Nobody I can hang out with regularly. My friends...I see them once every few months for a couple hours. I don't have a phone. I don't keep connections with people irl because I don't ****ing have a phone. My only close friends are you all. And I crave acceptance and support and love because I don't have any in environment around me. They say I love you but they ****ing don't. They don't. I have seen my grandma's face when she saw a lesbian couple. I saw my mom's uncomfortable-ness when she saw a lgbtq+ commercial. I saw my dad's anger when I played a cover of a pop song a few years back that had an overly feminine guy singing. I heard my sis call it weird, gross, not good, bad. They're all going to think that, and then they'll connect it to me. I can't let them connect it to me.

What the hell are you talking about, it is myself. It's me. It's part of me. That they don't like a part of me, they don't like who I am. They'll always say, I love you, but do they love me if they hate who I am? Who loves somebody and then rants about who I am at the same time. I should think out of all people you would know what I'm talking about. Oh, I love frax, I really do, but man do I hate people that like bugs, they annoy me so much, I simply can't accept it. Do you see? Do you ****ing see?

So what if I obsess. I love myself, I'm sorry I'm a horny teenager that sees girls as hot. I'm sorry I'm so open. I don't say everything I think yknow. I feel guilt and shame for so long because of the thoughts I have. You don't know what the church did to me, how it obsesses over marriage and sex and dating but at the same ****ing time shames any of members who aren't married about having sexual feelings. I thought they were intrusive thoughts. I was worried. I hated myself. I still feel shame sometimes when I lie in bed. I wanted to escape the shame here.

**** I can like characters without being sexually attracted. I just talk about the characters I really really like the most because I love them.

Thought provoking? Why the **** should I consider it? If it's against lgbtq+, that's discrimination, I will stand up for people who are suicidal and anxious and depressed, I won't stand for hateful talk and harms others and hurts me.

You know so many people die because of this.

I don't obsess, you may see it that way, I just love who I am. I can't mix those two together. I can't mix the church's view and my view together, it's either me, or the church. Me, or God. I either live in constant shame and self-denial, or love who I am.

HOW DO I NOT MAKE THIS A CENTRAL POINT WHEN THE CHURCH MAKES MARRIAGE A CENTRAL POINT

hhrhghhh

you don't understand. Catholics don't focus on this, they don't pressure marriage or anything like that. I am faced with a future I don't want. It expected of me to get married and have a family. There are wards specifically for people to get together and get married. A gay person doesn't fit in the mold. The whole thing is about family. I'm so scared for my future. I'm so sick of myself, why do I have to deal with this, why do I have this, why is it wrong. Why was I born into this church when I'm incompatible with it. I don't want kids. I don't want to give birth one day, it's terrifying. I'd rather adopt or just have pets.

I love metal by the way. I don't ****ing care if you see it as being obsessed or trying to fit in with every other metalhead. No I don't. Okay. I like metal because I do. And when I like stuff, I'm passionate about it. I want to share it. I want show my love for it. I want to share it with you because I love you. I want you to enjoy stuff with me, I want a connection. And if that takes the form of little joke posts about headbanging and stuff, I don't ****ing care. I absolutely enjoy it, and I thought I was showing my love it clearly. I guess too much love and it becomes annoying.

I'm sorry I talk about it. I'll shut up. I knew it. I knew it I knew it I knew it.

Exactly! This is you! Don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise.

 

[Rubik]

I thought a little honesty would have helped but I think you misunderstood it entirely. But I think it's further making the point. You're focusing too much on the division and not the common ground. I'm not blaming you; it's an invitation to alienate yourself, though, and you may require introspection about what you actually expect out of this... do you want to stay in a state where you are doubting yourself, doubting God, doubting others? I would hope you aren't but I can understand the perspective where you cling to song lyrics and take them too literally, that they are prolonging those doubts instead of helping you. They help to make you feel understood but they prevent you from progressing past that state of mind ...Does that make sense?

And of course it is discrimination, I'm not saying it's not, but acts of rebellion are just going to make people more reluctant to accept those things. Rebellion is meant to scare and upset people. That's how it always goes, okay? There are so many facets that make you who you are, please don't let one thing take the spotlight just because that's what other people keep talkinga bout. It's making you lose sight of yourself in the same way it's making others lose sight of what's important to being a good Christian. If you can be aware of how forced that focus is, you can learn to get around it. As long as you are aware there is more to who you are than being lgbt then you can keep your footing. We all have people dislike us for things we can't control.

Your bug comparison doesn't really work because I actually find solace in people hating stuff that matters to me. I've learned to do that. Sometimes I prefer it because those people are not going to objectify me. I'd rather be hated for
an aspect of myself than someone liking me solely for that aspect of myself. That's worse. That is so much worse. Nothing else about me matters but that I'm lgbt? Horrible.

And I'm not attacking you for getting into the metal subculture but for the sake of bringing up how you interact with labels, it felt very relevant. I could say the same of you with the furry fandom--which maybe even would be a better example because in my time away from ZD I've met a lot of people who enjoy anthro animals, even have ones they use essentially as sonas and do not call themselves furries. There was a huge discussion about it in a server I'm in because a lot of people were bothered by being shoved into boxes. And I remember the post you made when you 'came out' about being a furry, and it was a black and white thing like that. I don't know how to share this observation wtih you without it coming across as a little mean but I think it's something you need to reevaluate because there is no obligation to interact with labels in the same way other people do. This applies to something as trivial as taste and music and something as serious as a relationship with God. Just because other people in your church are not lgbt doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with Him and be lgbt.

I know you don't really like me much anymore but I really do care about you. From one lgbt person to another, as someone who had to overcome this same obsession due to being shut down by my family... the obsession is more harmful in the long term. It helps for feeling visible, but it does a lot more over time to hurt you; it keeps your mental health in a stasis and that's really why I wanted to speak up. I just didn't know how to say it without it being somewhat harsh because truths are unpleasant and I know that.

If you are taking a break from ZD, please take care of yourself.

I don't want to make a whole argument about it, but labels can be helpful to people so that they can relate to others more easily.

I know that you have a negative experiences with groups identifying by a label, but sometimes when people feel alienated for something having that common label to gather together and relate to each other can be helpful, be it finding other people going through similar issues who are LGBT or finding other people who like animal characters a lot. Everyone is more than just a label, but sometimes we want to find people who feel the same way about something because we don't have anywhere else to talk about it. Heck, I imagine most of the people here probably identify as Zelda fans on some level, it's something a community can relate to each other about, especially if you don't have other people you can relate to it about elsewhere.

Your experiences are valuable to you and they might be valuable to others, but they're not universal and sometimes things that you've found to have been bad for you can be good for others.

Anyways, I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with people identifying as LGBT, but it's something that gives a lot of people a feeling of belonging, especially those who can't find it easily elsewhere.

That's just my 2 cents, anyways.

 

[Fraxinus]

I don't want to make a whole argument about it, but labels can be helpful to people so that they can relate to others more easily.

I know that you have a negative experiences with groups identifying by a label, but sometimes when people feel alienated for something having that common label to gather together and relate to each other can be helpful, be it finding other people going through similar issues who are LGBT or finding other people who like animal characters a lot. Everyone is more than just a label, but sometimes we want to find people who feel the same way about something because we don't have anywhere else to talk about it. Heck, I imagine most of the people here probably identify as Zelda fans on some level, it's something a community can relate to each other about, especially if you don't have other people you can relate to it about elsewhere.

Your experiences are valuable to you and they might be valuable to others, but they're not universal and sometimes things that you've found to have been bad for you can be good for others.

Anyways, I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with people identifying as LGBT, but it's something that gives a lot of people a feeling of belonging, especially those who can't find it easily elsewhere.

That's just my 2 cents, anyways.

It's not having the label that's inherently the problem, it's being obsessed to the point that it defines you. It's good for finding a community but not for basing your self-image around entirely. How the labels compliment us, not how we compliment the label.

Watering down what I said above, I think the core question to ask here is "does the church make Echo think more about her attraction to women than she would otherwise if people in the church weren't constantly bringing it up?" That's the point I'm trying to make. I think this is compounded because these two labels are so absolute in her mind that they can't coexist and now she's being forced to think about it nonstop. In that disapproval, it manifests as an obsession with expression. Which, again, is empowering in the moment, but it does mean avoiding working through how to actually cope with 1, who you are, and 2, being rejected for who you are. It's a shaky and impulsive foundation not meant for a long term thing.

I'm admittedly pretty upset by this whole thing too so I apologize that my wording is ambiguous. It's really hard to explain in words. I know that my path is only mine and I'm not by any means saying anyone needs to do what I have done. The opposite actually. But we all share psychology and how these types of things damages us on the long term is very similar.

 

[Morbid Minish]

I'm sorry you're going through this Echo. I hate seeing you break down. If anyone deserves to be happy it's you, you're the nicest person I know.

I may not be the best with advice because I don't know a lot about the specifics when it comes to religion. But I do know some things. And one of those things relates to you talking about having to repent because of the people you hang out with, that you met through sinning. Jesus was known for hanging out with the "outcasts" of society and those considered sinners. He saw the good and potential in everyone, which is something I see you doing as well. How can you be wrong for those things when you're doing as Jesus did?

And as far as repenting for every little sin, I think that might be getting to you too much. Because what the church is telling you is a sin and what you believe is a sin don't correlate with each other. You can still have faith and sin. Do you think that your dad repents for his anger/dislike towards LGBT people? I would think that that would be considered sinful since you're supposed to love everyone. But he likely doesn't see it as such because he believes it goes against your religion. So your own beliefs can help you decide what is sinful and what isn't, you don't have to just follow what the church tells you. Especially since there are tons of different churches and religions, all saying different things.

I don't know if this will help in your situation, but it's something that helps me sometimes. Imagine there isn't an afterlife. Nothing to go to after you die. Would you rather spend your time on earth now not living how you want? It would just be a life wasted that you lived trying to appease others for no reason. And if there is an afterlife, you've been kind, loving, and caring. If you can't be accepted by a god then I don't know who can. How is love a sin just because it's for someone of the same sex, but hatred isn't a sin when it's against those who love the same sex? It doesn't make sense that something good can be worse than something bad.

And as far as the expectations to have a family, even some straight people feel the same. I don't want to have children either. I definitely don't want to be pregnant like you mentioned as well. It's not a sin to not have children or want them. Not everyone can even have kids, due to a variety of issues. I feel like too many people feel pressured by family to grow up and have a family of their own when that's not what they really want. And that's not fair to those people.

I really hope that you can feel good about yourself soon. You're not sinful or disgusting or anything like that. You're you and that's wonderful. Be that super loving and caring girl who defies expectations by loving metal. Be that girl who loves so much that she doesn't care about gender when expressing that love. Be you and don't let anyone try to take that away from you. I know it's really, really hard not to obsess about stuff like this. I have ocd and I still obsess over things I know I shouldn't. You'll probably always still question things and if you're making the right decisions. But as long as you're happy and not harming anyone else, then you are making the right decisions, whatever they may be.

 

[Dizzi]

why do they never have characters eat, sleep, drink or potty in games, books, or tv shows....

 

[Uwu_Oocoo2]

I think that thank you cards as a formality and societal expectation are garbage. The whole concept is dumb considering when you receive one you pretty much know it was out of obligation. Saying this now because I just spent a good hour making a thank you card by hand, that way they know by the effort I put into it that I'm genuinely grateful. (Also if you make a handmade card look nice enough you can fill it with as much copy pasted hallmark tropes as you want and they won't even notice)

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

I think that thank you cards as a formality and societal expectation are garbage. The whole concept is dumb considering when you receive one you pretty much know it was out of obligation. Saying this now because I just spent a good hour making a thank you card by hand, that way they know by the effort I put into it that I'm genuinely grateful. (Also if you make a handmade card look nice enough you can fill it with as much copy pasted hallmark tropes as you want and they won't even notice)

I dunno, I like being thought of

 

[GZ Zelda]

I am wading in way late, but I just wanted to say that if your religion is causing you pain, maybe rethink your religion. Belief in God is not supposed to make you have panic attacks about your sexuality. We all love and care about you for you, and want you to feel safe and loved. Just remember that people who are disgusted by other people for who they love aren't really seeing whatever God is supposed to be and they are not the authority of your spiritual experience.

And it sounds like you're in an isolated community full of people with heightened disgust responses? Or are you in a city with a larger community?

 

[Link&Midna]

my coworker told me that theyre gonna hint the next nintendo movie in the post credits scene tomorrow. dont know where she got that from, but i wonder what it'll be... now that im typing this i realize bringing it up might be a bad idea, so if youre reading this tomorrow dont quote it with what it is... goodnight

 

[Pokémaniac13]

my coworker told me that theyre gonna hint the next nintendo movie in the post credits scene tomorrow. dont know where she got that from, but i wonder what it'll be... now that im typing this i realize bringing it up might be a bad idea, so if youre reading this tomorrow dont quote it with what it is... goodnight

I want a good animated Zelda movie so badly. I know a lot of people don’t trust Zelda on tv, but it looks like they put so much care and attention into the Mario movie. I think a Zelda movie would be incredible.

 

[Echolight]

@Fraxinus

Now that it's been a few days, and I have a clearer head, I just want to formally apologize for what I said on that day. It's been bothering my conscious since the day I sent it. I was highly emotional and trying (without success) to force myself into a mindset I wasn't meant to hold, which was already overwhelming me. I deeply regret that I took out my frustration with my situation on one of my dearest friends. Frax...if you don't regard me as a close friend since that happened, and because of misunderstandings in the months previously, I don't blame you. I deserve it. I just hope that maybe this message can further clarify that I meant no harm in any of those moments, and while I did lash out, I regret it so much. I try my best to point my moments of frustration towards situations, not people, and especially not my friends who are the only people truly there for me. But that time, I didn't, and I'm so ashamed of that. I hope that you can forgive me, but if not...I won't be mad. I understand. I know my words stung. And I am so so sorry.

I know people have said take it to private, and that is very good advice and I have followed it to the best of my ability, but this post was made in public, so I feel the need to also apologize for this specifically in public.

Everyone else, I appreciate every single one of your replies. Knowing you all care, I know I've said this many times before, but I need to stress it time and time again, knowing you all care, it means the wold to me. And though it took me longer to realize this, I also am deeply thankful for your replies Frax, every single one. Now that I can read it calmly, I can see how much care you put into each one, how much you care about me. Again, I am so sorry how I acted. I know this is a bit after it all happened, I don't mean to stir up any negative feelings, the only reason I'm writing this is to make it clear that I regret my decision to post that vent pointed towards your words, although the anger was from my situation as a whole. It was not towards you as a person. I promise.

Anyone reading this, I'd like it if no more replies were made to this or any of the other posts on that day. I want this calm and repentant post to be the last one about this whole ordeal.

 

[Dizzi]

family come and theyre like diz do this do that and then i get freefallers song in my head...