• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

The Whip Sucks... >.>

Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Don't get me wrong, I love Skyward Sword. Despite some of my complaints, it really does manage to be one of the most entertaining games of the series and it's certainly my personal favorite. That said, out of all the (generally brilliant) items, I kinda... totally hated the Whip. -.-

I mean the central mechanics of it are plenty fun, but swinging it around is pointless unless it does something. Within the Ancient Cistern, there are really only three types of puzzles with it, all incredibly basic and can be done in other ways:

  1. Flip unique whip switches with a flick of the whip.
  2. Flip a normal switch or grab a key with the whip from a distance.
  3. Swing when there isn't a vine there already.

So essentially, with 1, the whip is a glorified key... one you only need to collect once. With 2, it's just the "do normal things from a distance" item. And with 3, it's the same as the bombs; with the bombs, you can only use bomb flowers in pre-set areas until you get the bomb bag. So the whip is your... vine bag.

None of this is impressive, creative, or terrible fun. I didn't enjoy flicking the whip at switches. Swinging, however, was handled pretty well I'll admit, but there was only like 2-3 whip swinging sequences in the entire game. This is a function that could have been played up more. The whip also had virtually no combat application.

I think the whip could have been better if they had:

  • Put in more swinging puzzles.
  • Put in more moments where the whip flipped unique switches with special motions, requiring timing and skill.
  • Have also function like TWW's Grappling Hook, allowing you to climb it up to ledges.
  • More puzzles of PULLING STUFF TO YOU, like grabbing the key from the Bokoblin, or fetching far-off objects. Perhaps it could be used to grab bomb flowers or distant treasures?
  • Some more creative stuff like in ST with the Snake Whip (and before you say the Snake Whip was different because it was a snake and could bite, the Whip in SS had the sticky orb. Why didn't they do cool stuff with the sticky orb?)
  • More combat applications. I propose swinging overhead to whip an enemy's head to stun, underhand to grab their legs and yank them out from under them to trip them. Whipping from the left or right would allow you to aim at their hands and snatch their weapons. These would allow the whip to function as a harassment tool in combat, giving you time and openings. Perhaps this would allow you to pick up enemy weapons like against Koloktos and like in TWW... but it only really works with the whip. This would make the whip awesome. What if the whip pulled off the arms of Cursed Bokoblins, helping to neutralize them?
  • Only underwater weapon? Yeah it's a whip, but it had the magic sphere so they could have made it a magical whip. Since it's a water dungeon, they could have made the whip into the only item that worked underwater, somehow. Perhaps underwater puzzles involving the above themes? Pulling you to things, pulling yourself out of water currents, and maybe even swinging off objects to change your direction while maintaining high speeds.

The whip was the most useless item of the game as-is, I thought, which is weird since it did a lot more in ST. What do you think?
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
  • Put in more swinging puzzles.
  • Put in more moments where the whip flipped unique switches with special motions, requiring timing and skill.
  • Have also function like TWW's Grappling Hook, allowing you to climb it up to ledges.
  • More puzzles of PULLING STUFF TO YOU, like grabbing the key from the Bokoblin, or fetching far-off objects. Perhaps it could be used to grab bomb flowers or distant treasures?
  • More combat applications. I propose swinging overhead to whip an enemy's head to stun, underhand to grab their legs and yank them out from under them to trip them. Whipping from the left or right would allow you to aim at their hands and snatch their weapons. These would allow the whip to function as a harassment tool in combat, giving you time and openings. Perhaps this would allow you to pick up enemy weapons like against Koloktos and like in TWW... but it only really works with the whip. This would make the whip awesome. What if the whip pulled off the arms of Cursed Bokoblins, helping to neutralize them?
  • Only underwater weapon? Yeah it's a whip, but it had the magic sphere so they could have made it a magical whip. Since it's a water dungeon, they could have made the whip into the only item that worked underwater, somehow. Perhaps underwater puzzles involving the above themes? Pulling you to things, pulling yourself out of water currents, and maybe even swinging off objects to change your direction while maintaining high speeds.
What kind of swinging puzzles would you recommend? Keep in mind this is only a whip, not a rope. It doesn't have the durability that, say, the Hookshot or Grappling Hook would. I can only surmise ST Link is a LOT lighter than SS Link, weight wise, so that could be why the Snake Whip did more than the Whip.

This, I'm sort of hesitant about but I don't really care to elaborate.

Again, this is just a whip which doesn't have the same durability and strength as the Grappling Hook would have. Sure, this is Zelda we're talking about, but with how Skyward Sword seemed to put an emphasis on mechanics rather than magic, I'm not sure climbing would be possible for SS Link.

This sounds like a good idea. It could call for more stealthy moments, where fighting an enemy isn't viable because of X barrier and the only way is to whip the key/item away so as to finish whatever puzzle. Good idea indeed.

I can only guess that if the Whip had a combat application, it would turn out as nothing more than a Fishing Rod – momentary disturbance that can't really aid you. I mean, enemies can parry all of your sword strikes, what could a Whip possibly do?

That's a definite great idea in my book.


Overall, I don't think the Whip is all that amazing. It had no real application, but I'm thinking that's because SS just had a distinct lack of magic versus mechanics. Things like collecting distant items become a chore now because we HAVE to use the Beetle instead of the good ol' Boomerang. What seemed to be cool items are just fetch quest or one exciting use only type items, such as the Whip.
 

zeldahuman

Graphic Designer
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Location
Akkala
I have to agree Owen, if they added the things you mentioned the Whip would be a ton better! The only cool thing about the whip as-is is that the design was altered from the Skull to the golden handle. If they gave you the ability to use the Whip underwater, it could be used like the Hookshot in Ocarina of Time. You could have used the whip underwater to give yourself more thrust to get to high ledges you couldn't reach by Dolphin Spinning... or whatever that move is called. I think they had a lot more potential with the whip, but they didn't really did anything good with it. And yes, it would have been cool if it was like the Snake Whip in ST. :yes:
 

Links Brother

I am Links older Brother!
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Location
Canada
I do agree with you. With all the great items in Skyward Sword the Whip was very disappointing. My biggest complaint it that the puzzles it was used in all you had to so was pull levers or swing. That's it end of story. But when you think of it, what else could the Whip have done? All the puzzles it was used in was the highest exstent of it's uses. But I will say I did slightly ruin the Ancient Cistern. That dungeon looked amazing and was cool to go along the lines of The Spider Thread but the whip made most of the puzzles easy and pointless. I would like to see the Whip in future games just upgraded to have more uses and goes well with puzzles.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Location
Canada, Alberta
Axle.. One thing that I really liked about it was that you could snag some trinkets from enemies with it. Much like Wind Waker and it's grapple hook.. Other than that.. I don't see myself using it often :\ .. In ST it was my number one item though!
 

rettam

I accidentally the...
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Don't get me wrong, I love Skyward Sword. Despite some of my complaints, it really does manage to be one of the most entertaining games of the series and it's certainly my personal favorite. That said, out of all the (generally brilliant) items, I kinda... totally hated the Whip. -.-

I mean the central mechanics of it are plenty fun, but swinging it around is pointless unless it does something. Within the Ancient Cistern, there are really only three types of puzzles with it, all incredibly basic and can be done in other ways:

  1. Flip unique whip switches with a flick of the whip.
  2. Flip a normal switch or grab a key with the whip from a distance.
  3. Swing when there isn't a vine there already.

So essentially, with 1, the whip is a glorified key... one you only need to collect once. With 2, it's just the "do normal things from a distance" item. And with 3, it's the same as the bombs; with the bombs, you can only use bomb flowers in pre-set areas until you get the bomb bag. So the whip is your... vine bag.

None of this is impressive, creative, or terrible fun. I didn't enjoy flicking the whip at switches. Swinging, however, was handled pretty well I'll admit, but there was only like 2-3 whip swinging sequences in the entire game. This is a function that could have been played up more. The whip also had virtually no combat application.

I think the whip could have been better if they had:

  • Put in more swinging puzzles.
  • Put in more moments where the whip flipped unique switches with special motions, requiring timing and skill.
  • Have also function like TWW's Grappling Hook, allowing you to climb it up to ledges.
    [*]More puzzles of PULLING STUFF TO YOU, like grabbing the key from the Bokoblin, or fetching far-off objects. Perhaps it could be used to grab bomb flowers or distant treasures?
  • Some more creative stuff like in ST with the Snake Whip (and before you say the Snake Whip was different because it was a snake and could bite, the Whip in SS had the sticky orb. Why didn't they do cool stuff with the sticky orb?)
  • More combat applications. I propose swinging overhead to whip an enemy's head to stun, underhand to grab their legs and yank them out from under them to trip them. Whipping from the left or right would allow you to aim at their hands and snatch their weapons. These would allow the whip to function as a harassment tool in combat, giving you time and openings. Perhaps this would allow you to pick up enemy weapons like against Koloktos and like in TWW... but it only really works with the whip. This would make the whip awesome. What if the whip pulled off the arms of Cursed Bokoblins, helping to neutralize them?
  • Only underwater weapon? Yeah it's a whip, but it had the magic sphere so they could have made it a magical whip. Since it's a water dungeon, they could have made the whip into the only item that worked underwater, somehow. Perhaps underwater puzzles involving the above themes? Pulling you to things, pulling yourself out of water currents, and maybe even swinging off objects to change your direction while maintaining high speeds.

The whip was the most useless item of the game as-is, I thought, which is weird since it did a lot more in ST. What do you think?

You can actually use it to grab hearts, Rupees, and bombs.
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
All I have to say is, if your gonna give us something as cool as the whip, give it a practical use outside of the Ancient Cistern.
 

MW7

Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Location
Ohio
All I have to say is, if your gonna give us something as cool as the whip, give it a practical use outside of the Ancient Cistern.

It's like Twilight Princess syndrome all over again but only with this one item haha. Skyward Sword as a whole did very well with keeping items relevant and useful.

Being a huge Indiana Jones fan I was so happy to have a whip that I didn't even notice how little it was used (and how simplistic the uses it did have were). Many of the ideas mentioned would be terrific. I even found myself expecting some of these functions only to find that they were left out. Specifically I tried climbing it like the grappling hook and was expecting cooler things to happen when I used it against enemies.
 

Night Owl

~Momentai
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Location
Skybound Coil Tree, Noctilum
Gender
Owl
I would've liked it if it could steal hearts or rupees or other treasure from enemies(like the grappling hook) I found the gust bellows largely useless as well. The gust jar in MC had more uses.
 
T

TheOriginalHigh

Guest
ya i was disappointed with the whip as well and even though you could steal skull spoils from bokoblins with it i was expecting it to do that for all enemies like how it was done in TWW. Ya, it would have been awesome if i could use it to steal enemy weapons and hilarious if i could latch onto their feet and cause them to trip only to finish them off with a fatal blow... THEN it would have been in my personal top 10 weapons or even my number one favorite... maybe next time tho =p!

exactly, the gust bellows was boring and didnt have much use outside the dungeon. I had a strange ghost busters feeling while using it tho...lol
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
I would love to see a Tornado Whip or something, in like a remake of the Wind Temple. Cool way to combine the gust jar and whip IMO.
 
Z

Zelda's Boy Toy

Guest
I agree the whip had very few mandated uses in the game. Personally, I am a grass mower - the whip does cover more grass area in a shorter amount of time. It can also be used to take out some enemies in an unorthodox way. I would use it on the bobokins thaty would come after you on the tight rope - one hit and they fall - for fun.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
What kind of swinging puzzles would you recommend? Keep in mind this is only a whip, not a rope. It doesn't have the durability that, say, the Hookshot or Grappling Hook would. I can only surmise ST Link is a LOT lighter than SS Link, weight wise, so that could be why the Snake Whip did more than the Whip.

This, I'm sort of hesitant about but I don't really care to elaborate.

Again, this is just a whip which doesn't have the same durability and strength as the Grappling Hook would have. Sure, this is Zelda we're talking about, but with how Skyward Sword seemed to put an emphasis on mechanics rather than magic, I'm not sure climbing would be possible for SS Link.

I can only guess that if the Whip had a combat application, it would turn out as nothing more than a Fishing Rod – momentary disturbance that can't really aid you. I mean, enemies can parry all of your sword strikes, what could a Whip possibly do?
When I said swinging puzzles, I meant along the lines of the ones the game actually has. They were fun, but there were almost none of them. Regardless, your statements about it being "a whip, not a rope", don't mean much. There's no logical reason to say that a whip doesn't have the durability of a rope or a chain, especially in a fantasy game where the whip already does something impossible with its strange sticky orb. Zelda games have always prioritized gameplay concept over realism, so I don't know why you're bringing this up. The whip could have easily had some more Grappling Hook-like application, like allowing you to climb up it.

One example of a switch that needed to be more interesting is the standard ones you just whip once and then yank. These should have needed to spin more, requiring you to quickly do repeated whippings and yankings to get it to spin enough to activate whatever device it controlled. This would have made perfect sense for switches controlling gates, and especially for raising and lowering the central chamber. It would have been funner too.

Again, realism is put aside for good gameplay, even in Skyward Sword, and that's how it should be. Something should never be realistic if it isn't fun. I don't understand how Link wouldn't be able to climb the whip anyway. Whips seem to be pretty durable constructions to me; made of leather, designed to deliver impact with momentum (whips can strip flesh). Are your statements about whip durability based on anything you've read?

I'm also confused about your statements about the whip as a weapon. Whips can be used to do serious damage in real life, and their actual purpose is to cause pain or impact. They're arguably far more designed to be weapons than say a Boomerang is, which is a toy in real life. In addition, I just gave you a list of alternative applications of the whip in combat. o_0


And yes, it would have been cool if it was like the Snake Whip in ST. :yes:
It's dumbfounding that it isn't. How do you seriously take a successful item from a game, one that people liked, and then go "let's remove almost everything it could do and then just not have it be used anywhere else in the game"?


The whip was a lot of fun for me. Had they of implemented more things, the system would have got overly complicated and difficult to pull off if you ask me.

Using it for combat? No thanks. Like Vanitas said, if the the enemies can parry and dodge your sword blows, a whip that gets them wouldn't make much sense.

I'll just stick to using it as a faster way to cut grass and yank horns of enemies for now.
I don't see how it could have gotten overly complicated. All the things I described bank entirely on the basic mechanics it already uses; most of them have to do with usage of the same ideas in better ways.

Why shouldn't it be used for combat? It's a whip. Whips are actually used as a weapon. In real life. And why shouldn't each item do something in combat, especially in a game where the focus is on the battles?
 

Cuju

私はカウントダウンを実行します。
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Canada
But it didn't... How could you not like being Indiana Jones?
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
When I said swinging puzzles, I meant along the lines of the ones the game actually has. They were fun, but there were almost none of them. Regardless, your statements about it being "a whip, not a rope", don't mean much. There's no logical reason to say that a whip doesn't have the durability of a rope or a chain, especially in a fantasy game where the whip already does something impossible with its strange sticky orb. Zelda games have always prioritized gameplay concept over realism, so I don't know why you're bringing this up. The whip could have easily had some more Grappling Hook-like application, like allowing you to climb up it.

One example of a switch that needed to be more interesting is the standard ones you just whip once and then yank. These should have needed to spin more, requiring you to quickly do repeated whippings and yankings to get it to spin enough to activate whatever device it controlled. This would have made perfect sense for switches controlling gates, and especially for raising and lowering the central chamber. It would have been funner too.

Again, realism is put aside for good gameplay, even in Skyward Sword, and that's how it should be. Something should never be realistic if it isn't fun. I don't understand how Link wouldn't be able to climb the whip anyway. Whips seem to be pretty durable constructions to me; made of leather, designed to deliver impact with momentum (whips can strip flesh). Are your statements about whip durability based on anything you've read?

I'm also confused about your statements about the whip as a weapon. Whips can be used to do serious damage in real life, and their actual purpose is to cause pain or impact. They're arguably far more designed to be weapons than say a Boomerang is, which is a toy in real life. In addition, I just gave you a list of alternative applications of the whip in combat. o_0



It's dumbfounding that it isn't. How do you seriously take a successful item from a game, one that people liked, and then go "let's remove almost everything it could do and then just not have it be used anywhere else in the game"?



I don't see how it could have gotten overly complicated. All the things I described bank entirely on the basic mechanics it already uses; most of them have to do with usage of the same ideas in better ways.

Why shouldn't it be used for combat? It's a whip. Whips are actually used as a weapon. In real life. And why shouldn't each item do something in combat, especially in a game where the focus is on the battles?

My thoughts exactly. The grappling hook from WW is cooler then the whip in SS, and that's sad.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom