Spoiler The Triforce is the Controller of the Gods.

[ihateghirahim]

In WW, the Trifoce is described as being used as a sort of plea to the gods. Ganondorf and the king speak their wishes on the Triforce to the gods above. I was just thinking, could the Triforce be a sort of controller of the gods. Does it simply command the gods to grant the wish, rather than actually granting the wish itself? If so, are the gods enslaved to human will in this manner/. Could it be that the Trifoce was made as a sort of protection against the gods, to make prevent humans from being subjected solely to their will? Perhaps the three goddesses feared that the gods would oppress the humans, and thus created the Triforce as a sort of evenizer to keep the gods in line? Thoughts?

 

[Sir Quaffler]

I completely agree, the Triforce is actually a remote control to the goddesses. Well, insofar as the gathering of all three triggers a calling card to them in the distant nebula.

I started to come to this conclusion many years ago before SS came out that perhaps the Triforce had technological behavior running in tandem with magical behavior, that the Triforce was in fact some sort of fusion between technology and magic (in reference to the "Sufficiently explained magic is science" mantra).

On their own, the three pieces seem to operate on a strictly-magial basis. The Triforce of Power grants its bearer great magical power, the Triforce of Wisdom grants its bearer great wisdom and knowledge, and the Triforce of Courage augments its bearer's willpower to overcome obstacles. All very magical indeed. But what happens when all three are brought together? A wish is made to the Goddesses.

Now you're probably thinking "But that's just magical too!" I used to think so, but SS (and to a lesser extent other games as well) has provided proof that the Goddesses also operated on a highly technologically-advanced level. The Gates of Time? Activated by a magical input, sure, but operating as mechanical gears that shift the gears on time, so to speak. Everywhere Nayru has (had, more precisely) dominion the land was extremely tech-heavy. It makes sense that she would have very advanced knowledge of science and engineering, being the Goddess of Wisdom. And it also follows that the other Goddesses would also have this knowledge, though they are more known for their separate specific attributes. And when you think about all the dungeons, they almost always have crazy technological contraptions hidden in them. That technology's gotta originate from somewhere.

Getting back to the Triforce, I propose that the Triforce is actually a blending of technology and magic, that the Triforce pieces are constantly emanating electromagnetic waves with a certain frequency (or magic waves, or whatever) to the other two pieces, and when those waves become strong enough (i.e. when all three pieces are brought together) they activate a subroutine built into them wherein they contact the Golden Goddesses from the distant nebula. (Considering the fact that the wish is made in an instant rather than after a short period of time, I think that the Triforce can either open up a small wormhole connecting it to that distant nebula and send information through it [maybe that's what the hole in the center's for?] or that they are quantum-linked to the Goddesses, and anything the holder of theTriforce wishes is communicated instantly to the Goddesses.)

Also getting back to the more broad claims of it being a remote to the Goddesses, SS also confirmed this (or made a well thought-out theory about it). The Golden Goddesses created the Triforce, but they specifically built it so that none of their kind could use it. It was made as a light of hope to the mortal humans.

 

[g-whiz]

I don't really think of it as a controller in the sense that whoever picks up the Triforce can get Din to do a finishing move on Nayru or something. I think of it as more of a test that the gods set in place.

In most of the games, you either don't make a wish on the Triforce or you have to overcome a seemingly ridiculous amount of stuff before you can get close to it.

That actually reminds me of something I read years ago about the original Legend of Zelda. Essentially, the monsters in the dungeons were created by the Triforce pieces either as protection or as as a test. By beating the dungeon boss, you pass the test and earn the Triforce piece and the right to move on.

In OoT, someone has to assemble 3 spiritual stones, get the Ocarina of Time, Learn/Know the right song to open the magic door AND be worthy of pulling the Master Sword just to have access to the Triforce. THEN they need to have a perfectly balanced heart to get their wish. I could be wrong but I always got the idea that the Triforce split when Ganondorf touched it and his wish wasn't actually granted. All the bad stuff that happened in Hyrule was the result of his hard work over the next several years and that he was trying to reassemble the Triforce so that he could finally make his wish.

All of that said, I think all of the tests are to be sure the wisher is worthy of making a wish and the wish is just a reward for being worthy rather than being some kind of remote control.

 

[ihateghirahim]

If its just a test, why does Ganondorf address the gods themselves in a wish? Why did the gods grant the wish of someone who is pure and evil and openly mocks them like they did in OoT?

 

[g-whiz]

If its just a test, why does Ganondorf address the gods themselves in a wish? Why did the gods grant the wish of someone who is pure and evil and openly mocks them like they did in OoT?

1. Ganondorf addresses the gods because the gods, regardless of his faith in them, are the ones granting the wishes.
2. The test isn't a test of moral character but of ability to get/unify the Triforce. Think about it, it was Din, Nayru and Farore that created the Triforce but Hylia that sent Skyloft (and the Triforce) into the sky. It was also Hylia that made (or at least commissioned the making of) the Master Sword. There is no indication that any kind of purity of heart was required to enter the Sacred/Silent Realm prior to that and the only reason purity is needed at that point is because evil can't touch the Master Sword-which Ganondorf gets around in OoT.
3. We can't assume that the gods are good or even consciously involved in the events of Hyrule. If they were pure good, then why haven't they long since stripped Ganondorf of the Triforce of Power and left him weak and easily killable? I see two possibilities. One is that some of the gods are good and some are evil. There is a theory I've read that suggests Din is actually the Desert Colossus/goddess of the Gerudo. Another possibility is that the gods are neutral. They just grant wishes to whomever holds the Triforce and makes a wish.

In either case, one thing that has always kind of been missing from the games is faith. I think there was a brief and obscure mention of praying to one of the Light Spirits in TP but there doesn't seem to be much of an actual religion built up around the gods and goddesses other than an occasional statue. SS is a notable exception to this but only with Hylia not with the Big 3 or any others. That said, it doesn't seem to me that the gods would be bothered much by Ganondorfs lack of faith because it doesn't seem they've ever done much to encourage people to worship them. I kind of question whether they even know what's going on in Hyrule anymore or if they just left some Dragons, Sages and Light Spirits in charge, dropped a magic triangle and took off never to look back.

 

[Zeldachu]

If its just a test, why does Ganondorf address the gods themselves in a wish? Why did the gods grant the wish of someone who is pure and evil and openly mocks them like they did in OoT?

This is most likely because the gods have no way of viewing earth/hyrule. In some religions, the gods can see whatever you do, perhaps this is not the case in hyrule, therefore they use the triforce as a sign of worthiness.

 

[g-whiz]

It could also be a required incantation to make a wish. In order to unlock the wish granting ability of the Triforce, you have to invoke the gods whether you believe in them or not.

If we think the Triforce is super advanced technology, the invocation could be a password.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

If its just a test, why does Ganondorf address the gods themselves in a wish? Why did the gods grant the wish of someone who is pure and evil and openly mocks them like they did in OoT?

I think of it like this, Ganondorf hates the Gods due to the whole Demise curse thing. He openly calls out to them to gloat.

 

[Sir Quaffler]

I think of it like this, Ganondorf hates the Gods due to the whole Demise curse thing. He openly calls out to them to gloat.

Hmm, it didn't really seem like that to me. [I'm assuming we're talking about the Ganondorf in WW, since that's the one we actually see make a wish instead of it only being implied.] Together with his whole "Winds of the Desert" speech beforehand, it really seemed like his wish to the goddesses was one that was extremely heartfelt, as you can see the pain on his face from all the years of hardships when he makes his wish. He still hated them for the situation he was in and for the general hatred of the goddesses he inherited from Demise, but he still had that human side to him that just wanted what he viewed as best for him and his people [similar to Boromir in The Fellowship of the Ring, where there was a great source of power that can be corrupting, but he still wanted to use that power to save his kingdom]. He only snapped and went full-out kill-crazy mode after his wish, which he had worked so hard to achieve and was finally within his grasp, was snatched from him by King Daphnes Nohannes Hyrule [man that's a fun name to say] at the very last moment.

 

[g-whiz]

Could be that he found a grudging respect for the gods. Despite all of HIS power, he kept losing over and over to the other Triforce bearers. Then he lost everything (the Gerudo desert, the kingdom he sought to rule, any chance he had at power etc) when the gods stepped in and flooded Hyrule and everything else. He may have realized that, even with the Triforce, he was powerless compared to them and he needed them to be truly powerful.

Remember, Ganondorf doesn't have to believe in the gods. As a bearer of the Triforce, a relic of the gods, the bulk/majority of his power comes directly from the gods. He KNOWS the gods are there. He knows what their power is capable of. I think his hatred of them is a result of both his origin as the curse of Demise but also, I think it's born of frustration.

Ganondorf first appeared in OoT (unless another game comes out that changes that). He was king of the Gerudo, possibly a powerful magic user even before he got the Triforce of Power, smart enough to get around the fact that HE could not access the Sacred Realm because he couldn't touch the Master Sword and yet, he was beaten...by children. This theme is repeated throughout the other games. Despite his power, his preparations and his ambition, he is constantly beaten. It's possible that the only explanation that makes sense to him is that the gods are against him.

With all of that said, in WW, he had lost everything. It's possible that he was beaten emotionally. He was resigned to the fact that, even if he didn't like it, he needed the gods to accomplish anything.

A good comparison would be a spoiled rich kid. His parents give him everything and never take anything away or punish him. Other people hate him and fight against him. The police arrest him when he breaks the law, the media points out his flaws etc. but his parents just keep bailing him out and giving him whatever he wants. Instead of appreciating what he has and what his parents do for him, he just wants more and wants what his parents don't give him.

Then it happens, Mommy and Daddy stop writing checks. Jr. is on her own for the first time and, for the first time, he realizes how much Mommy and Daddy do for him and how much he needs them.

It's kind of the same with Ganondorf. He might always lose to the other rich kids (Link and Zelda/other Triforce bearers), but the gods did give him a lot. He had a lot of power, he was immortal, he conquered Hyrule at least twice (OoT and TP) before he was overthrown. It wasn't until Mommy and Daddy took everything away (the gods flooded Hyrule and removed the object of his ambition) that he turned to them for help...

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Hmm, it didn't really seem like that to me. [I'm assuming we're talking about the Ganondorf in WW, since that's the one we actually see make a wish instead of it only being implied.] Together with his whole "Winds of the Desert" speech beforehand, it really seemed like his wish to the goddesses was one that was extremely heartfelt, as you can see the pain on his face from all the years of hardships when he makes his wish. He still hated them for the situation he was in and for the general hatred of the goddesses he inherited from Demise, but he still had that human side to him that just wanted what he viewed as best for him and his people [similar to Boromir in The Fellowship of the Ring, where there was a great source of power that can be corrupting, but he still wanted to use that power to save his kingdom]. He only snapped and went full-out kill-crazy mode after his wish, which he had worked so hard to achieve and was finally within his grasp, was snatched from him by King Daphnes Nohannes Hyrule [man that's a fun name to say] at the very last moment.

It does sort of seem heartfelt, but that speech is more for link than the gods, at least that's how it seemed to me. I thought he was telling the story to show everyone all his pain, he calls to the gods because he is showing them that even though evil is supposed to lose he was about to win, it all backfired on him though. Still though your theory seems cool, you may be right.Also I think its cool you brought the Lord of the Rings into the conversation as a example.

 

[Shadsie]

I completely agree, the Triforce is actually a remote control to the goddesses. Well, insofar as the gathering of all three triggers a calling card to them in the distant nebula.

I started to come to this conclusion many years ago before SS came out that perhaps the Triforce had technological behavior running in tandem with magical behavior, that the Triforce was in fact some sort of fusion between technology and magic (in reference to the "Sufficiently explained magic is science" mantra).

On their own, the three pieces seem to operate on a strictly-magial basis. The Triforce of Power grants its bearer great magical power, the Triforce of Wisdom grants its bearer great wisdom and knowledge, and the Triforce of Courage augments its bearer's willpower to overcome obstacles. All very magical indeed. But what happens when all three are brought together? A wish is made to the Goddesses.

Now you're probably thinking "But that's just magical too!" I used to think so, but SS (and to a lesser extent other games as well) has provided proof that the Goddesses also operated on a highly technologically-advanced level. The Gates of Time? Activated by a magical input, sure, but operating as mechanical gears that shift the gears on time, so to speak. Everywhere Nayru has (had, more precisely) dominion the land was extremely tech-heavy. It makes sense that she would have very advanced knowledge of science and engineering, being the Goddess of Wisdom. And it also follows that the other Goddesses would also have this knowledge, though they are more known for their separate specific attributes. And when you think about all the dungeons, they almost always have crazy technological contraptions hidden in them. That technology's gotta originate from somewhere.

Getting back to the Triforce, I propose that the Triforce is actually a blending of technology and magic, that the Triforce pieces are constantly emanating electromagnetic waves with a certain frequency (or magic waves, or whatever) to the other two pieces, and when those waves become strong enough (i.e. when all three pieces are brought together) they activate a subroutine built into them wherein they contact the Golden Goddesses from the distant nebula. (Considering the fact that the wish is made in an instant rather than after a short period of time, I think that the Triforce can either open up a small wormhole connecting it to that distant nebula and send information through it [maybe that's what the hole in the center's for?] or that they are quantum-linked to the Goddesses, and anything the holder of theTriforce wishes is communicated instantly to the Goddesses.)

Also getting back to the more broad claims of it being a remote to the Goddesses, SS also confirmed this (or made a well thought-out theory about it). The Golden Goddesses created the Triforce, but they specifically built it so that none of their kind could use it. It was made as a light of hope to the mortal humans.

I read the first post, then I read this one, and...

Sir Quaffler, have I told you lately that I love you?

You just hit upon the *basis* of several of my fan fictions. I mean, really. I do my fanfiction-work with the premise that each story is it's own, I connect very few of my stories, but I do like to put in loose references between differing stories, and this is a theme that I have used before. I think it started with my co-write, "The Great Desert" because my co-writing partner had the idea that the goddesses were "sufficiently advanced" and that story (and the incomplete remake) deal with the idea of magitek. (In the Great Desert universe, the Triforce was the goddesses' (a trio of immortal scientist's) attempts to control the inherent magic of the planet they landed on that became Hyrule. I seem to remember putting these kinds of themes on a lower-level in some of my other, non-Great Desert fics - like, my Skyward Sword fanfictions treat the Gates of Time as technology (I think they're made of Timeshift Stones, highly refined).

Another theme in my silly fanfic stories that deal with this kind of thing is that I like to also refer to the Triforce as "Will." As in, "Encapsulated Free Will." This works with both magitek and pure magic. I interpret the Triforce as being "the providence left behind by the goddesses" as spoken of in Ocarina of Time. The gods of Hyrule wanted the people to be more or less self-sufficient, but knew they needed some guidance, so they gave them the gift of their will (will of the gods) to strive for, to be used in tandem with mortal will (the will of those that wish on the Triforce with balanced hearts). The goddesses, themselves, cannot use the Triforce, because it is Free Will itself, the thing that benevolent gods do not touch, and, well, they already put their part into it - the Triforce is therefore in need of mortal will to act.

So, I'd say "kind of" a controller to the gods, but it's not like Link is picking up a gaming pad and making Farore walk into a wall. It's more like "Here is our will, mortals, add your will to it and make the land beautiful."

 

[Jirohnagi]

Feel like i gotta throw in my 9 cents. YES 9 OF THEM. Anywho, It's my belief you need to have all three virtues (courage, wisdom and power) in equal amounts, as well as have an unbreakable spirit to use the triforce, we've been shown that Ganondorf was in fact able to use the triforce but it split upon his wish turned him into a pig beast and sealed him in the dark world for being "impure. The Master Sword originally the Goddess Sword was a weapon that couldn't be wielded by just anyone, you had to be the chosen one, the guardian of the triforce Hylia required herself a mortal who possessed the three virtues in abundance but not unbalanced, and they had to have an unbreakable spirit to forge the Master Sword.

It's my thought the blade of evil's bane wasn't always like this it only gained the ability to be so when Fi became dormant after the death of Demise, the blade imbibed some of his power and became able to in essence reject anyone who seemed even remotely similar (Vaati, Ganondorf). The Master Sword acted as a Key in to games one to seal the way into the Sacred Realm and to Seal away Ganondorf's power, I think the goddess' foresaw one of great evil rising once more and provided a test to determine who deserved the triforce. I wouldn't say the Triforce is a controller to the gods, more like the magic lamp from Aladdin, obviously some difference but fairly similar, you had to go through hardship to get both and your wish isn't quite what you expect.

If we think of it The goddess' created the Triforce as a "final hope" or a promise for humanity, that if things ever got so dark a hero would arise to combat this evil and restore the land. This hero would be wise, powerful and courageous enough to put a halt to the growing wave of evil. But at the same time it was a "final doom" for humanity, promising them that evil would arise if for no other reason than to claim the power of their birth, and in some cases a damnation of them all. The one who possessed a spirit that was virtuous and unbreakable would be able to make a plea to the gods to grant their "wish" and the goddess' impressed with the strength of the one who could claim the triforce would grant the "wish". but if one who was in possession of the three virtues but not in equal amounts got to the triforce and declared their wish the goddess' would decline their wish and separate the Triforce, sending it to those who best represented each virtue in question, while at the same time damning he who is impure. The owner of each shard was free to do with it as they pleased whether is was to abuse it's inherent nature and twist it into something horrendous, or shatter it to prevent the impure one who is ever after it from getting it. Or even set their own personal test to lay claim to it.


I think the Triforce is quite literally an embodiment of hyrule, that no matter how much destruction is caused the people WILL rebuild and it is their wish to carry on that the triforce eternally grants, allowing them to carry on. When Lorule was bereft of it's Triforce it fell into ruin, but while hyrule retains it's triforce then things are not so bleak, it is shown several times that when the triforce itself is separated the land quickly falls into ruin, and devastation ensues. However when they are reunited the land is returned to peace. The triforce represent the duality of human nature on one hand we will always build and seek wisdom and seek to be courageous in our endeavors. and on the other side the Courage and wisdom often lead into power and those who gain too much of it become corrupt and destructive seeking to bend the world to their will.

Just my 10 Cents (yea you got 1 extra)

 

[hwrdjacob]

This is a somewhat old tread, so forgive me if I'm doing something wrong, but I have to point this out:

The Triforce IS sentient. The Japanese Manual of ALttP, the intro (Via calling it "Omnicent" a term implying it has the capacity to know), and even the ending all point to it.

So why doesn't it stop "evil" wishes? The Japanese version explains why:
Because the only beings that have any entitlement to labeling right from wrong are the Gods themselves. It, like the rest of creation, cannot truly grasp right and wrong. This is similar to Christianity in how, in the eyes of God, every sin is equal: be it lying or murder. And all sin is pretty bad in his eyes. It would seem a similar system is in place with the Goddesses. So, it would be out of line to deny anyone: even Ganon, a wish, based merely on the Triforce's possibly incorrect grasp of morality.

And as for who would weild the Master Sword, that is a different story. The wielder need not be a "Chosen Hero": Zelda herself brandishes it at the end of WW, and the Hero of Light wields it in AST (Make what you will of it canonicy). You simply need to be a True hero. As in, a moral person. Even supplemental materials like Nintendo Land imply that the key to wielding the MS lies in weather or not you are moral.

 

[castigear]

This may be unpopular but I prefer to think of the three goddesses as "above good and evil". To me that is preferable to the idea that they are forced to respond to the Triforce's wishes. IMO they feel that in order for a person to obtain the Triforce, they either have to have the three virtues in balance, or the person's dominant virtue was able to overpower the champions of the other two virtues. In other words, anyone who obtains the Triforce deserves it.