Spoiler The Temple of Time and the Sacred Grove: Location, Location, Location.

[Garo]

The Temple of Time and the Sacred Grove have both been the resting places of the Master Sword throughout the series, and now that we have finally seen the creation of the Master Sword, we may be able to finally put to rest some of the bizarre contradictions of these sacred places. This thread will examine plot details - including the ending - of Skyward Sword. If you have not finished Skyward Sword, I would advise you turn back now or else be spoiled.

Let's first examine the facts:

(If there are any inaccuracies in the above table, please point them out to me so that I may fix them! It's been a while since I've played some of these so my memory may be a bit rusty.)

Now there are a few contradictions with the facts as presented to us with the timeline as we understand it. Let's outline the history of the Master Sword so we can identify these places.

The Master Sword's History
In Skyward Sword, the Master Sword starts out as the Goddess Sword, and throughout the course of the game, it becomes the Master Sword through the strengthening of the blade with the three Sacred Flames. At the end of the game, Fi instructs Link to seal the sword - and, consequently, her - into the pedestal within the Sealed Temple (formerly the Temple of Hylia). There it rests. In Skyward Sword, the Master Sword ends the game in the Sealed Temple within Faron Woods, and not within the Temple of Time, which exists in the game within the Lanayru Desert.

In Ocarina of Time, the Master Sword rests in the Pedestal of Time within the Temple of Time. The Temple of Time is not the Sealed Temple, however, as it exists just outside of Castle Town, and not in the forest. Using the Twilight Princess divisions of the three provinces, Castle Town exists within the Lanayru province, making it very plausible that the Temple of Time that was in the desert is the very same Temple of Time outside of Castle Town in Ocarina of Time. Nevertheless, this is the first discontinuity - at some point, the Master Sword was moved from the Sealed Temple to the Temple of Time.

In the adult timeline continuity, Wind Waker comes next, and here the Master Sword - though initially dull - is found inside a secret chamber in Hyrule Castle, and not the Temple of Time. While we never see the Master Sword returned to the Temple of Time in the adult ending of Ocarina of Time, we can assume that this occurred. As such, it is a slight discontinuity that the sword now rests in Hyrule Castle. Given, however, that the forces of Ganon were assaulting Hyrule with no hero to stop them (an assault that appears to still be continuing outside the magical barrier to Hyrule Castle), it is very much possible that the sword was moved to Hyrule Castle for both the safety of the sword as well as sealing some of Ganon's power (it is equally possible that the sword was moved to Hyrule Castle after the events of Ocarina of Time rather than being returned to the Temple of Time, since the Door of Time appeared to be wide open). At the end of the game, the restored sword is driven into Ganon's head, where it rests. It does not appear in the adult timeline again.

In the child timeline, the Master Sword next appears in Twilight Princess, where Link draws it from the pedestal within the Sacred Grove to return to his human form after Zant embedded the Twilight Splinter in his head. Once again, this is a discontinuity - the sword was never drawn from its pedestal in the Temple of Time in the child timeline. However, there is no sign of the Temple of Time in the present day of Twilight Princess - while it appears as a dungeon, it takes place in the distant past. What's more, that dungeon is in the distant past of the Sacred Grove, suggesting that the Sacred Grove (this is the earliest appearance of the Sacred Grove chronologically) is actually the ruins of the Temple of Time. Yet the Temple of Time, up until this point, never existed in the Faron province. We'll come back to this later with a possible explanation - for now, know that this is a discontinuity. The sword is returned to the Sacred Grove at the end of the game.

A Seal War later (it is commonly accepted that the Seal War occurs after Twilight Princess at some point), A Link to the Past occurs. Here, the Master Sword is in the Sacred Grove, which is deep in the Lost Woods - just as it was in Twilight Princess. He draws the sword, whacks Ganon with it, and returns it to the Sacred Grove, where it sleeps forever - the game even says so! No discontinuity here.

So our two major discontinuities occur between Skyward Sword and Ocarina of Time, and then between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. Below, I will explain my theory that reconciles these conflicts to some extent.

Two Temples: The Dual Resting Places of the Master Sword
I'll come right out and say it: I think there are two Temples of Time.

This may seem like utter nonsense, but hear me out. In Skyward Sword, we go into the Temple of Time. This Temple of Time is located in the Lanayru province, just as the one in Ocarina of Time would be. There, Zelda and Impa escape into the Door of Time leading to the distant past, which is then destroyed before Ghirahim can pursue them. Link needs to get to Zelda, so the next portion of his quest becomes finding another Door of Time to make his way into the past. The other Door of Time is located in the Sealed Temple, formerly the Temple of Hylia, deep in the Faron Woods.

Hey wait, that sounds familiar... sort of like the... Sacred Grove?

I am suggesting that the Sealed Temple became another Temple of Time, and that this temple is the one we explore in Twilight Princess, and that the pedestal Link places the sword in becomes the Sacred Grove's pedestal far in the future. The basis for this theory is the presence of the two Doors of Time in the Temple of Time and the Sealed Temple, which (correct me if I am wrong) Impa said are the only two Doors in existence.

Now, how does this fix our discontinuities?

The Temple of Time in Lanayru Desert is the main, more grandiose Temple of Time, as evidenced by the massive Royal Crest in the air above it. This is the Temple that Impa and Zelda defaulted to in their journey to return to the past, rather than the Sealed Temple. The Gate of Time there appeared to have already been operational, unlike the one at the Sealed Temple which required Link to create the Master Sword to activate. All these signs point to the Temple of Time being the dominant of the two, with the Sealed Temple as the sort of backup temple. Thus it would not be too egregious to suggest that the Royal Family moved the sacred blade from its resting place at the Sealed Temple (which would become the Sacred Grove) to the Temple of Time near the newly erected Hyrule Castle and Castle Town. This would reconcile the perceived discontinuity between Ocarina of Time's beginning and Skyward Sword's ending.

As for the latter discontinuity, the existence of two Temples resolves this easily. There is absolutely no evidence of the Temple of Time that existed in Lanayru Desert in the present of Twilight Princess - at some point, the Temple was destroyed most likely for unknown reasons. Thus, the Master Sword was returned to its initial resting place in the Sealed Temple/Sacred Grove. When Link travels back in time to the "Temple of Time", he is in fact exploring the Sealed Temple and not the Temple of Time we all know and love.

With this in mind, our table above looks like this:

And the history of the Master Sword looks like this:
Created (SS) ---> Rests in the Sealed Temple (SS) ---> Moved to the Temple of Time ---> Drawn from the Temple of Time (OoT) --->
Adult: Moved to Hyrule Castle for safety during Ganon's return before the flood ---> Drawn (WW) ---> Kills Ganon (WW)
Child: Moved to Sacred Grove after Temple of Time destroyed ---> Drawn (TP) ---> Returned to Grove (TP) ---> Drawn (ALttP) ---> Returned (ALttP) ---> Rests forever

In summation:

There are two Temples of Time, and two resting places for the Master Sword. Over time, the temples deteriorate, and the Master Sword is moved between them as needed to keep the sacred blade safe and hidden while still protecting Hyrule.

 

[JuicieJ]

Yes, I agree that the Temple of Time in Skyward Sword is not the Temple of Time we all know and love. It looks nothing like it and has no indication that there was a roof to it. Plus, the Temple of Time we know was built specifically guard the Sacred Realm. Nothing of the sort is in the one in Skyward Sword, so I see no reason to believe it's the same one in OoT and TP. I also believe that the Temple of Hylia/Sealed Temple is supposed to become the Temple of Time. The Temple of Hylia was indeed the area that guarded the Triforce, so it wouldn't contradict anything.

 

[Locke]

It's a good thing I read the whole thing before replying... I was about to compose my own explanations while you were describing the discontinuities. Turns out our explanations are very similar. I think it's quite obvious that the Sealed Temple is intended to become the Temple of Time. It holds the only working Gate of Time (Door of Time), the Master Sword, the only occurrence of the Sages' Symbols (on the ceiling of the room that was split between the ground and the sky), and it's found in a special part of the forest, as it is in TP (which this game has been stated to lead up to moreso than OoT).

Where our conclusions differ is regarding the original Temple of Time. I took the Sealed Temple to be a retcon of OoT's Temple of Time placement in order to reconcile it with TP's placement. The original ToT does not have a working Gate of Time and the whole thing is in ruins, so I don't think it would be used again. I don't remember if you find the MS in TP in the present, or only after going to the past? If you find it in the past, then I suppose it could have been moved to a different temple between those two points. But as I said, I don't think another temple exists. If it's there in the present, it's likely been there the whole time.

On a side-note, Hyrule Castle was destroyed during OoT on the AT. Rather than moving the MS to a new castle, I believe the new castle was constructed around the ToT. That removes any MS discontinuity. Unfortunately, I also believe that SS retconned the ToT's placement, so that retcon now also would have to extend to WW, causing a big mess.

 

[Garo]

Yes, I agree that the Temple of Time in Skyward Sword is not the Temple of Time we all know and love. It looks nothing like it and has no indication that there was a roof to it. Plus, the Temple of Time we know was built specifically guard the Sacred Realm. Nothing of the sort is in the one in Skyward Sword, so I see no reason to believe it's the same one in OoT and TP. I also believe that the Temple of Hylia/Sealed Temple is supposed to become the Temple of Time. The Temple of Hylia was indeed the area that guarded the Triforce, so it wouldn't contradict anything.

I agree with most everything said here; when the Goron mentioned that it was the Temple of Time I had a brief "what the frak" moment given the complete lack of mention of the Sacred Realm prior to that moment. I do, however, find it possible that the Temple of Time was repaired or reconstructed for that new purpose (or perhaps what they thought was its initial purpose given the way the Hylia legend seems to drop out of common knowledge).

Where our conclusions differ is regarding the original Temple of Time. I took the Sealed Temple to be a retcon of OoT's Temple of Time placement in order to reconcile it with TP's placement. The original ToT does not have a working Gate of Time and the whole thing is in ruins, so I don't think it would be used again. I don't remember if you find the MS in TP in the present, or only after going to the past? If you find it in the past, then I suppose it could have been moved to a different temple between those two points. But as I said, I don't think another temple exists. If it's there in the present, it's likely been there the whole time.

On a side-note, Hyrule Castle was destroyed during OoT on the AT. Rather than moving the MS to a new castle, I believe the new castle was constructed around the ToT. That removes any MS discontinuity. Unfortunately, I also believe that SS retconned the ToT's placement, so that retcon now also would have to extend to WW, causing a big mess.

In TP you find it in the present; you get the Master Sword before the Arbiter's Grounds to fix the Twilight Splinter incident, and then return to the grove to explore the Temple of Time later.

More to the point - I think that the Temple of Time in Skyward Sword being in ruins is, as I said above, possibly the cause of the original statement that the Temple of TIme was built to safeguard the Sacred Realm - they seem to forget the Hylia legend and repurpose the Temple of Time for what they think is its original purpose. However, I do very much agree with your point about the recon of the location, that it should actually have rested within the woods all along and that Ocarina of Time's placement of the temple is an anomaly that they are correcting.

Fortunately, I don't think it causes a big mess with Wind Waker. We only ever see Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker and a small bit of the road leading up to Ganon's Tower. It's very possible that Ganon's Tower is the one on the site that Hyrule Castle was initially built (of course the tower has been rebuilt after its destruction) and that the new Hyrule Castle is built over the now-retconned proper location of the Temple of Time/Sealed Temple in Skyward Sword. That fits rather nicely, I think.

 

[JuicieJ]

I agree with most everything said here; when the Goron mentioned that it was the Temple of Time I had a brief "what the frak" moment given the complete lack of mention of the Sacred Realm prior to that moment. I do, however, find it possible that the Temple of Time was repaired or reconstructed for that new purpose...

But it's in the Lanayru Province. The Temple of Time is in the Faron Province. That's a direct contradiction. Geography doesn't matter in Zelda, but that's with location of areas in the Provinces. Moving the Temple of Time around like that wouldn't be something Nintendo would do.

 

[Garo]

But it's in the Lanayru Province. The Temple of Time is in the Faron Province. That's a direct contradiction. Geography doesn't matter in Zelda, but that's with location of areas in the Provinces. Moving the Temple of Time around like that wouldn't be something Nintendo would do.

Right right, hence why I agree with Locke's assessment that Skyward Sword retcons Ocarina of Time's bizarre (in retrospect) placement to make its placement consistent.

 

[JuicieJ]

Right right, hence why I agree with Locke's assessment that Skyward Sword retcons Ocarina of Time's bizarre (in retrospect) placement to make its placement consistent.

Well, I think I know why it wasn't in the forest in OoT. I think Nintendo wanted us to see the destruction of Castle Town right away. It actually was going to be in the forest originally, so I think that further supports my "theory".

 

[Garo]

Well, I think I know why it wasn't in the forest in OoT. I think Nintendo wanted us to see the destruction of Castle Town right away. It actually was going to be in the forest originally, so I think that further supports my "theory".

That's actually a pretty good point, especially given that the Lost Woods and Kokiri Forest don't really change substantially enough... interesting.

 

[Fandangox]

To The Other Guy:
Don't read this, Spoilers.

I think it is pretty obvious that SS's Temple of Time is called such because, as previously stated here, it housed the (most well known) gate of time.

After Ghirahim destroyed it, there would be little reason for it to still be a temple of time name-wise.

The Sealed Temple housed the other (less known) Gate of Time. As time passed, I assume the importance of the Temple's original reason (guarding the Sacred Realm) was eventually diminished in favor of its second (now then more well known?) reason, housing the Gate of Time.
And so it was Renamed.

Plus TP's Sacred Grove, OoT's Temple of Time, and SS's Sealed Temple they all look really similar. Strangely Enough the Sealed Temple resembles more present time TP's Sacred Grove than OoT's Temple of Time. Which means that for it to be all the same thing, the Sealed Temple would have to be built around to make it look like OoT's Temple of Time (and TP's past time Temple of Time), and then, as time passed by, got all deteriorated, making it look like present time TP.

The above three mentioned temples also seem to be similar architecture wise. A small temple with a huge door, that has a round room of about the same size, with a pedestal, and the Master Sword on it.
I do not remember however if by the end of Skyward Sword the Door was OUTSIDE of that round room, or behind it.

uuuuh.

 

[Bastian]

I don't think we should let the names and geography of provinces inform our theories. If you take a look just a few hundred years ago at a map of the US (http://www.csub.edu/~jreyna/MAPS/US TO 1776-1853.jpg) you'll see that "Oregon" and "Texas" had very different shapes and borders than they do now. Perhaps the area that original Temple of Time stood at that time, while was then part of Lanayru Province, was later appropriated by Faron Province.

That being said, I agree that there are two Temples of Time. When the Gate of Time at the original Temple was destroyed and after the events of SS people came back to the surface and it became known that there was a Gate of Time at the Sealed Temple (Temple of Hylia) it reasonably became known as the new Temple of Time.

 

[BestAlero]

The location in SS is the temple/grove the master sword is always in. Do you think the godess temple from Skyloft landing right there was a simple coincidence? That Skyloft goddess temple is the temple of time and is more of the spiritual stone room (3 tablets - 3 stones red carpet) where as the grove area is where OOT link takes the master sword as the door and pedestal is set exactly. Also the ending showing the pretty much grovelike replica is undeniably the grove its held in other games, I shouldn't have to explain that one. You are looking far too much into this as it's laid out before your eyes to see.

 

[Medri]

perhaps the best way to think of it is that the sword in the pedestal is representative of the location, and the framework around it evolves throughout the ages.

 

[LD-Link-16]

Is the Sealed Grounds the Future Temple of Time?

at the end of SS, Link leaves the MS in the sealed grounds, where i assumed it would stay untill the Hero of Time picks it up again as a young boy in OoT. however, the Hero of Time finds it in the Temple of Time. so does the sealed grounds eventualy become the ToT? this is the only conclusion that makes any sence to me. either this OR another story takes place between the 2 games, one that would move the MS to the true ToT. though i dont see how the construct in the desert is the ToT in OoT...

 

[SkywardStriker]

I think there are two master swords. A more powerful one (forged in skyward sword) and a less powerful one (created by sages before OoT at some point). Also the lesser one would be the one in WW that had to have sages pray for it to keep its powers. There may be another timeline branch created by SS placing the master sword in the past but that is probably not true. However when you say that the sealed tempal had the only remaining door of time and I may be mistaken but didn't impa destroy it after they returned to their own time in the end of the game?

 

[OracleOfAwesome]

Master Sword and Temple of Time

One of the most confusing topics in the series is the location of the Master Sword and the way it changes between every game. Here's my theory.

The Master Sword is placed in the Sealed Temple at the end of SS. This Temple would later be known as the Temple of Time. After all, it does/did have a time gate in it. When the Skyloftians go to the surface, they build a town and a castle near it, becoming Hyrule Castle and Castle Town. It remains this way until Ocarina of Time.

However, in the "hero defeated" timeline (note: I don't actually believe in the hero defeated stuff, but I do believe in a triple split, with ALttP, WW, and TP parallel to eachother, but here's not the place to explain it), Hyrule Castle is destroyed and replaced with Ganon's Castle. When Ganon is sealed in the Sacred realm, Hyrule Castle is rebuilt elsewhere. Eventually, Faron Woods/the Lost Woodsgrow out and surround the Temple of Time, and it eventually erodes and becomes the Sacred Grove we see in A Link to the Past.

In the adult timeline, the Master Sword is moved from the Sacred Grove and placed in the basement of the new Hyrule Castle to protect it from the impending flood, which is right where Link finds it in Wind Waker.

In the child timeline, Hyrule Castle is also destroyed somehow, but by events not seen in-game, be it war with Bullblins or earthquakes (it explains why there's so many gorges and canyons in TP's Hyrule), and rebuilt in Lanayru Province. The Lost Woods/Faron Woods once again overgrow the Temple of Time, resulting in the Sacred Grove seen in TP.