The Temple of Time and Its Different Locations...

[Justac00lguy]

Not sure if I've seen a thread discuss about this, sorry if there is a similar one.

So this is probably a frequently pondered topic in the Legend of Zelda series, How come the Temple of Time's location is always different for such a stand out an important structure?

So we know that the Temple of Time is in 3 different Zelda games, However they served completely different roles each of these installment's...

The Temple of Time's first apperance in the Zelda franchise was in Ocarina of Time! In this game it served a big purpose, it was where the Master Sword was held and it acted as a key to the sacred realm which we know is where the Triforce is located. However in a later installment, Twilight Princess which can be believed to be anywhere from 100-500 years after the events of Ocarina of Time, the Temple of Time is found deep in the Faron Woods in the 'Sacred Grove'

In Twilight Princess it served a different purpose the actual Temple of Time is in ruins, the only thing that remains is the Pedestal where the Master Sword lays...Now in Twilight Princess by using the Master Sword and thrusting it downwards into the time pedestal it opens up what looks to be the actual Temple of Time from OoT. Before I delve into my theory I just want to mention the Temple of Time in Zelda's newest installment, Skyward Sword. In this game the location is actually in the Lanayru desert, this seems very odd and the actual apperance is very different, the Temple of Time is located outside in what seems to be an open courtyard where the gate of time is located.

Now that I have briefly explained the 3 appearances the Temple of Time has made and how they differ I am going to explain my theory on how the they are all connected. So the Temple of Time in OoT and TP both serve similar purposes....they both hold the Master Sword and its original pedestal, however one is located near Castle Town and the other is located deep in the woods. In my opinion they are both the same structure and my theory for this is that I think that due to Castle Town being vulnerable in OoT and the fact that such an important feature was nearly accessible by even the local people of Hyrule, that the Sages or leaders of Hyrule decided to demolish the structure and move it. Now I know this sounds a bit out there but I think that they created a hidden entrance in the lost woods to the ruins of the temple, as the sacred grove and the lost woods bear many similarities. This would explain why the Master Sword lies in the ruins of the Sacred Grove however there is still the problem of how SS's verison of the Temple of Time fits into this equation.

Now I think that the Temple of Time's location in Skyward Sword was only located there due to the time gate apperance. There doesn't seem to be any resemblance to a Temple in this location but just the fact that the Time Gate is located here, now (SPOILER) if you have played SS you would know that Impa destroys the Time Gate here to preven Ghirahim from pursuing her and Zelda. Now if the Time Gate is detroyed what is the purpose of these grounds? However we do know of one more Time Gate...And this other Time Gate is located within the Sealed Temple, many have made reference to this place to when the Island falls down from Skyloft, to be the start of the land of Hyrule. Now if this is where the Hyrule Kingdom intially started it would mean that due to the Selaed Temple now having the Time Gate as well as where the Master Sword rests...that this place could very well be the Temple of Time we see in Ocarina of Time!

So what are your thoughts on the different locations of the Temple of Time? Do you think they are related or just simply a new structure?

 

[DarkLink7]

Well, at the very end of SS, we see the master sword in the room where Zelda was asleep. It looks similar to the Temple of Time in OoT, just a little broken, more like a less-rundown version of the Sacred Grove. But the Hylians could have easily fixed that up.

 

[Cfrock]

Now if this is where the Hyrule Kingdom intially started it would mean that due to the Selaed Temple now having the Time Gate as well as where the Master Sword rests...that this place could very well be the Temple of Time we see in Ocarina of Time!

I have exciting news for you, this is the case. The Hyrule Historia tells us that the Temple of Time seen in Skyward Sword has no real significance and that the Sealed Temple does become the Temple of Time, or at least, the Temple of Time is built on that site.

In ancient times, there was a temple which had the same name; but the location in which Rauru built the temple was where the temple of the seal was thought to be.

- Page 77, Hyrule Historia​

So the Sealed Temple from Skyward Sword does become the Temple of Time that we see in Ocarina of Time. So far so good. The complication comes from Twilight Princess, in which the Temple of Time is a ruin in the woods and forgotten except in vague legends. I personally think it makes more sense for the Castle and surrounding Town to have moved than it does the Temple of Time, if I'm honest.

We know that what becomes the Temple of Time is found in the Faron Province in Skyward Sword and then found in the Faron Province again in Twilight Princess. Occam's Razor tells us therefore that it was in Faron Province during Ocarina of Time as well. That might seem odd as you would immediately assume the Kokiri Forest/Lost Woods was Ocarina of Time's equivelant to Faron Province but it's worth remembering that no Provinces are named in Ocarina of Time so, until we get a solid confirmation on such matters, it really is anyone's guess. Using the location of the Temple of Time given in Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, I would say Hyrule Castle and Market Town and, therefore, the Temple of Time were in the Faron Province during Ocarina of Time.

So you see the complication. The Castle and Castle Town are not in the Faron Province when we get to Twilight Princess. However, the Town and Castle are both very different in Twilight Princess. The Town is much larger and is in a more central location in regards to the rest of Hyrule. The Castle itself is more circular and seems to be built more as a fortress. There is also the drastically different landscape surrounding the town and its increased distance from Death Mountain. There's plenty to suggest this is not the same Castle or Town we saw in Ocarina of Time and I do believe that something caused the old Castle/Town to be destoryed, leading to the construction of a new one elsewhere.

I have several ideas of what could have caused the destruction of the Castle/Town but those are theories for another thread. The long and short of it is, yes, you are right about the Sealed Temple becoming the Temple of Time seen in Ocarina of Time but I, personally, would say it is the Castle and Town which change location in Twilight Princess and that the Temple of Time stays where it always had been.

If you're still interested in the Temple of Time, TheBlueReptile posted a very intriguing theory regarding the Temple of Time and its possible appearance in The Wind Waker. It makes for a jolly good read

 

[Random Person]

I have exciting news for you, this is the case. The Hyrule Historia tells us that the Temple of Time seen in Skyward Sword has no real significance and that the Sealed Temple does become the Temple of Time, or at least, the Temple of Time is built on that site.

- Page 77, Hyrule Historia​

So the Sealed Temple from Skyward Sword does become the Temple of Time that we see in Ocarina of Time. So far so good. The complication comes from Twilight Princess, in which the Temple of Time is a ruin in the woods and forgotten except in vague legends. I personally think it makes more sense for the Castle and surrounding Town to have moved than it does the Temple of Time, if I'm honest.

We know that what becomes the Temple of Time is found in the Faron Province in Skyward Sword and then found in the Faron Province again in Twilight Princess. Occam's Razor tells us therefore that it was in Faron Province during Ocarina of Time as well. That might seem odd as you would immediately assume the Kokiri Forest/Lost Woods was Ocarina of Time's equivelant to Faron Province but it's worth remembering that no Provinces are named in Ocarina of Time so, until we get a solid confirmation on such matters, it really is anyone's guess. Using the location of the Temple of Time given in Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, I would say Hyrule Castle and Market Town and, therefore, the Temple of Time were in the Faron Province during Ocarina of Time.

So you see the complication. The Castle and Castle Town are not in the Faron Province when we get to Twilight Princess. However, the Town and Castle are both very different in Twilight Princess. The Town is much larger and is in a more central location in regards to the rest of Hyrule. The Castle itself is more circular and seems to be built more as a fortress. There is also the drastically different landscape surrounding the town and its increased distance from Death Mountain. There's plenty to suggest this is not the same Castle or Town we saw in Ocarina of Time and I do believe that something caused the old Castle/Town to be destoryed, leading to the construction of a new one elsewhere.

I have several ideas of what could have caused the destruction of the Castle/Town but those are theories for another thread. The long and short of it is, yes, you are right about the Sealed Temple becoming the Temple of Time seen in Ocarina of Time but I, personally, would say it is the Castle and Town which change location in Twilight Princess and that the Temple of Time stays where it always had been.

If you're still interested in the Temple of Time, TheBlueReptile posted a very intriguing theory regarding the Temple of Time and its possible appearance in The Wind Waker. It makes for a jolly good read

Nice analysis. At first I was having a hard time agreeing with you, but after using my brain (which apparently exists) I agree with most of your points. When comparing the maps of OoT and TP, the best base point we can establish is death moutain. While homes and towns can be moved, it's pretty tough to move a mountain, especially one that's considered an active volcano. Going South of TP's Death Moutain (going off the GC version here) we come across Kakariko which is in the same spot as OoT. Heading West, if the geography were identical to OoT's map, we should come across Hyrule Field and then Castle Town, however, note how you have to cross a bridge when going from Kakariko to the forest in both TP and OoT. Also note that that part West of Kakariko and East of Castle Town in TP seems to have a lot of ruins in it. I believe this is where the Old Castle Town used to lie. This makes ALOT of sense considering if you were to place Castle Town there, things in TP start to line up with things in OoT. Now obviously Nintendo got some details wrong, but I see more right than I do wrong when I put Castle Town here. East Hyrule Field is the old location of Castle Town, and all the area South of it was once considered all of Hyrule Field.

However, if this is indeed the location of the Castle Town of old, the new location of the Temple of Time would be somewhere in East Hyrule Field, not North West of the forest. Even if I got the location wrong, Kakariko's location is pretty much set due to Death Mountain's non mobility. You have to travel West from Kakariko to get to OoT's Temple of Time.

So while I do agree that Castle Town was relocated in between OoT and TP as you stated, this is not enough for me to explain the Temple of Time's relocation. If Catle Town's relocation is true, the Temple of Time would still be in a different spot than it appeared in TP.

 

[Cfrock]

Excellent point, RP, I like the idea that the ruins in East Hyrule Field are the remains of the old Town. It's a tricky situation, to be sure. I'm working from a fixed Temple of Time, you're working from a fixed Death Mountain. Fixed Death Mountain means the Temple has to move. But what if the mountain isn't fixed?

When comparing the maps of OoT and TP, the best base point we can establish is death moutain. While homes and towns can be moved, it's pretty tough to move a mountain, especially one that's considered an active volcano.

It's this part here that piques my interest. Death Mountain is a pretty active volcano. What if it's more active than we think? Look at it in Ocarina of Time and compare it to Twilight Princess.





In both games the mountain is actively spewing out hot rocks and is filled with flowing lava but the part I want to draw attention to the most is how, in Twilight Princess, the entire Death Mountain area has lots of steam vents spouting out hot vapours at all hours of the day. It seems that it isn't just the one specific peak that is prone to violent outbursts. The potential for a, shall we say, 'event', seems to be present throughout the mountain range, albeit less likely.

The mountain we see in Twilight Princess looks more like a recent explosion than an actual peak, with lava flowing over the outer surface and the whole thing taking the shape of something that recently expanded upwards and outwards very fast indeed. No point on the horizon appears to resemble the mountain as it was seen in Ocarina of Time so we are left with two possible explanations:

1) The peak was saw in Ocarina of Time underwent a very violent volcanic event. The mountain peak was torn asunder by a collosal eruption, causing it to resemble the peak seen in Twilight Princess, and the resulting seismic activity altered the details of the surrounding landscape. This could also explain why the Town was moved, actually.
The issue with this is that it would have had to have happened a while ago for the new Castle and Town to have been built, considering the underground drainage tunnels and re-routing of the Zora's River to directly feed the Town, and the suspected eruption site appears to be a more recent event, with the lava still flowing openly on the outside.

2) The eruption took place at a different point in the mountain range, somewhere further north than the peak seen in Ocarina of Time. The explosion would have created the peak we see in Twilight Princess and the seismic activity could have altered the detail of the surrounding area, possibly causing massive changes to the appearance of the peak seen in Ocarina of Time. The new peak, now the highest point in the mountain range, is named Death Mountain since the original fell apart during the event.

Obviously, I think scenario 2 is the more likely, purely because that fits with my stance of the Temple of Time being a fixed location (sorry ). Twilight Princess provides evidence that the entire mountainous region is volcanic, not just the specific mountain (the heat underground even feeds a hot spring as far down as Kakariko Village), and the vast chasms and gorges that are present throughout Twilight Princess's Hyrule are quite likely to have been created by powerful earthquakes, since tectonic movments of that magnitude seem unlikely in a period of only several hundred years. Such widespread and powerful earthquakes could have levelled the Castle and Town, causing the relocation, as well as left the Temple of Time in ruin. They could also have been the trigger that set off the eruption which created the 'New' Death Mountain we see in Twilight Princess as well as contributing to the apparent disappearance of the peak seen in Ocarina of Time.

On top of which, Lake Hylia can be said to fit the criteria of a maar lake, which are caused by volcanic activity, specifically explosions resulting from water coming into contact with lava. The extra depth and size the Lake has gained since Ocarina of Time may potentially be the result of increased volcanic activity, and so the altered shape of Lake Hylia in Twilight Princess can be argued to be evidence of scenario 2.

How this relates to the Temple of Time is that it potentially explains away the map similarities which would place the Ocarina of Time Castle and Town in East Hyrule Field by showing the possibility that Death Mountain, in effect, 'moved' between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, allowing the Temple of Time to remain stationary.

Of course, it's all just potential and nothing's definite. But is there anything particularly glaring in that which questions that potential?

 

[Random Person]

Of course, it's all just potential and nothing's definite. But is there anything particularly glaring in that which questions that potential?

I'd say you've covered just about all the cracks. Still, its not enough for me to fully accept. Maybe its because I don't know enough about natural disasters or what, but there's a bit too much assumption in it for me. Not saying your theory isn't possible, plausible or even true, just that it's not enough to hold this Random Person. I'd more likely believe that Nintendo was iffy on a few details than a volcanic eruption causing such massive damage to Hyrule. But who knows, maybe that's what Zelda Wii-U will be about. Good post.

 

[DarkestLink]

Ocarina of Time[/I] as well.

What the hell? In OoT, the Temple of Time was as far away from the Faron Province as game space would allow.

 

[Cfrock]

What the hell? In OoT, the Temple of Time was as far away from the Faron Province as game space would allow.

In Ocarina of Time we have absolutely no idea where the boundaries of the Provinces are drawn. We do not know for certain which Province the Castle or the Town, and, therefore, the Temple of Time, are actually in. Just because the Kokiri Forest is a forest does not mean it is automatically the Faron Province. Remeber how there was a lake in the Faron Province in Skyward Sword and Lanayru was a huge desert? And yet Faron has no lakes in Twilight Princess and yet Lanayru does. Like terrain is not an indication of which Provinces are which.

With that in mind, the site of the Temple of Time at the start of the timeline is known to be Faron Province. That's the Sealed Temple in Skyward Sword. The site of the Temple of Time at the end of the Child Timeline is also known to be Faron Province. That's the Temple of Time in Twilight Princess. Given that the Temple is located in the same province at the beginning and the end of the timeline, the simplest explanation (i.e. Occam's Razor) is that the Temple has always been in Faron Province. It simply doesn't make much sense to move the Temple around, especially because it would have to be moved more than once to fit with the facts given to us by Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess.

The simplest explanation is that the Temple of Time never moved from the Faron Province. Until there is compelling evidence to suggest otherwise, that is the scenario which seems most likely to me because it creates the fewest issues and loose ends. Since we have no idea at all of the boundaries of the Provinces during Ocarina of Time, there is no issue with saying Hyrule Castle and the Town are in the Faron Province during that game.

 

[DarkestLink]

In Ocarina of Time we have absolutely no idea where the boundaries of the Provinces are drawn. We do not know for certain which Province the Castle or the Town, and, therefore, the Temple of Time, are actually in. Just because the Kokiri Forest is a forest does not mean it is automatically the Faron Province. Remeber how there was a lake in the Faron Province in Skyward Sword and Lanayru was a huge desert? And yet Faron has no lakes in Twilight Princess and yet Lanayru does. Like terrain is not an indication of which Provinces are which.

With that in mind, the site of the Temple of Time at the start of the timeline is known to be Faron Province. That's the Sealed Temple in Skyward Sword. The site of the Temple of Time at the end of the Child Timeline is also known to be Faron Province. That's the Temple of Time in Twilight Princess. Given that the Temple is located in the same province at the beginning and the end of the timeline, the simplest explanation (i.e. Occam's Razor) is that the Temple has always been in Faron Province. It simply doesn't make much sense to move the Temple around, especially because it would have to be moved more than once to fit with the facts given to us by Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess.

The simplest explanation is that the Temple of Time never moved from the Faron Province. Until there is compelling evidence to suggest otherwise, that is the scenario which seems most likely to me because it creates the fewest issues and loose ends. Since we have no idea at all of the boundaries of the Provinces during Ocarina of Time, there is no issue with saying Hyrule Castle and the Town are in the Faron Province during that game.

Geographics change, I guess, but we do know a few things:

1) In both TP and SS, the Lanayru Province have a desert and are in Northwestern areas.

2) In both TP and SS, the Faron province have forests and are in southern areas.

3) In both TP and OoT, the castle town is in a northern area to the northwest of death mountain.

4) In TP the castle town is in the Lanayru province

5) Both castle towns have the same design.

What we have no confirmation for

1) Castle town being destroyed

2) Castle town being moved

In the end, the forest in OoT is in the south (just like the Faron province) and is a forest (just like the faron province). The castle is northern and to the Northwest of death mountain. It's near water. No real forest nearby. Not to mention TP's temple of time is in a hidden area impossible to build a town in.

 

[felipe970421]

Nice analysis. At first I was having a hard time agreeing with you, but after using my brain (which apparently exists) I agree with most of your points. When comparing the maps of OoT and TP, the best base point we can establish is death moutain. While homes and towns can be moved, it's pretty tough to move a mountain, especially one that's considered an active volcano. Going South of TP's Death Moutain (going off the GC version here) we come across Kakariko which is in the same spot as OoT. Heading West, if the geography were identical to OoT's map, we should come across Hyrule Field and then Castle Town, however, note how you have to cross a bridge when going from Kakariko to the forest in both TP and OoT. Also note that that part West of Kakariko and East of Castle Town in TP seems to have a lot of ruins in it. I believe this is where the Old Castle Town used to lie. This makes ALOT of sense considering if you were to place Castle Town there, things in TP start to line up with things in OoT. Now obviously Nintendo got some details wrong, but I see more right than I do wrong when I put Castle Town here. East Hyrule Field is the old location of Castle Town, and all the area South of it was once considered all of Hyrule Field.

However, if this is indeed the location of the Castle Town of old, the new location of the Temple of Time would be somewhere in East Hyrule Field, not North West of the forest. Even if I got the location wrong, Kakariko's location is pretty much set due to Death Mountain's non mobility. You have to travel West from Kakariko to get to OoT's Temple of Time.

So while I do agree that Castle Town was relocated in between OoT and TP as you stated, this is not enough for me to explain the Temple of Time's relocation. If Catle Town's relocation is true, the Temple of Time would still be in a different spot than it appeared in TP.

All right, there are a few flaws here.

Kakariko village n TP is not Kakariko vilage in OoT, actually, the village where the Eldin spring is found is new Kakariko, Old Kakariko is what is now known as the hidden village

And the ruins you mention can't be castle town, they are very far from the temple of time, however, in the sacred grove, look carefully at the area where you fight Skull kid, you will find a lot of similarities to OoT's castle town, and it's right next to the temple of time

Since your theory relied on Kakariko being stable, I think it's debunked

Geographics change, I guess, but we do know a few things:

1) In both TP and SS, the Lanayru Province have a desert and are in Northwestern areas.

2) In both TP and SS, the Faron province have forests and are in southern areas.

3) In both TP and OoT, the castle town is in a northern area to the northwest of death mountain.

4) In TP the castle town is in the Lanayru province

5) Both castle towns have the same design.

What we have no confirmation for

1) Castle town being destroyed

2) Castle town being moved

In the end, the forest in OoT is in the south (just like the Faron province) and is a forest (just like the faron province). The castle is northern and to the Northwest of death mountain. It's near water. No real forest nearby. Not to mention TP's temple of time is in a hidden area impossible to build a town in.

1) IIRC SS Lanayru Province was in southeast, and there is no confirmation of Gerudo dessert being part of TP's Lanayru

2) Correct

3) In TP, the Castle is to the west of death mountain, you know what's also in that direction? The Temple of Time

4) Correct

5) What? Sorry but no, they are both square and have a fountain (incidentally, ST's castle town shares a similar design, the similarities are just Hylian architecture), the similarities begin and end there, OoT's castle had a huge courtyard and a moat, TP's castle didn't, TP's castle is built as a huge circular structure, OoT's is a conventional castle, fact is, they are more similarities between TP's castle town and ST's castle town than between TP's castle town and OoT's castle town

---

1) and 2) Ruins outside temple of time, different architecture of the new castle town, TP's Hyrule castle has areas still under construction

Now where is the evidence of The Temple of time being moved?

 

[Cfrock]

Before I start, I'm gonna put up the maps from Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess for quick reference.

Page 71 of the Hyrule Historia informs us that the Seald Grounds are at the centre of the world and so I would like to approach this map situation from that factual standpoint. Ths means that the Sealed Grounds and the Temple of Time should be considered the centre points of their respective maps.

1) In both TP and SS, the Lanayru Province have a desert and are in Northwestern areas.

The Gerudo Desert seen in Twilight Princess is not part of the Lanayru Province. It is a separate area not considered part of the kingdom of Hyrule, similar to the Ordon Province. Both deserts are northwest of their respective centre points though, but Twilight Princess's Lanayru Privince is actually directly to the north.

2) In both TP and SS, the Faron province have forests and are in southern areas.

Taking the Sealed Grounds as the centre of the world, Skyward Sword's Faron Province is more acurately described as being in the east, not the south. Similarly, Twilight Princess's Faron Woods would be in the east, with the larger part of the Province stretching further north.

3) In both TP and OoT, the castle town is in a northern area to the northwest of death mountain.

In Twilight Princess the Castle is directly west of Death Mountain.

When we look at the Ocarina of Time map, we see the Castle and Town are, in fact, south west of Death Mountain.

4) In TP the castle town is in the Lanayru province

Yes, this is true.

5) Both castle towns have the same design.

This does not appear to be the case. The Town seen in Ocarina of Time is a town square, an alleyway and a dirt path leading further up the hill to the castle. The Town identifies itself as the Market and it is little more than that. In Twilight Princess there is a communal square but it is not a market. The market area would be found on the South Road. There are four separate districts to the Town, it has higher walls and an ornamental garden to the south. It accessed on all sides via bridge, not just from the south.

The designs of the two Towns varies greatly, as does the design on the two Castles.

What we have no confirmation for

1) Castle town being destroyed

While technically true it is not too much of a stretch to believe it happened. Ocarina of Time shows us that Ganondorf did destroy the Market Town and so it would make sense for him to also do the same when he led "a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule" (told to us by the Ancient Sages in the Mirror Chamber). So no, there is no confirmation of it happening but there is evidence (beyond just that quote) to support the notion.

2) Castle town being moved

Again, we have no confirmation of it but there is evidence which supports the idea. The Town's new location in regard to Death Mountain, the vastly altered landscape surrounding the Town, the fact that the Temple of Time is no longer in the Town (why move it only to let it fall into ruin? It was a sacred place to the Hylians) and the apparent change of Province, if we accept the idea that the Town was in Faron Province in Ocarina of Time, another notion which can be supported with in-game evidence.

In the end, the forest in OoT is in the south (just like the Faron province) and is a forest (just like the faron province). The castle is northern and to the Northwest of death mountain. It's near water. No real forest nearby. Not to mention TP's temple of time is in a hidden area impossible to build a town in.

In Ocarina of Time, Market Town would be our centre point, because the Temple of Time is there and Hyrule Historia tells us that was the centre of the world (this also adds more support for the idea that Market Town is in the Faron Province). That would place Kokiri Forest in the south east. And again, the mere fact that there are forests in the two confirmed appearances of the Faron Province does not strictly mean that the presence of a forest indicates the Faron Province. In Skyward Sword it had a lake which appears to have vanished, for example.

In both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess we can see that the Castle is not more northernly than Death Moutain, being directly to the west in Twilight Princess and further south in Ocarina of Time. Also, the Castle in Twilight Princess can attribute the proximity of its water supply to a man-made channel built off the Zora River specifically to supply the town with water. The Zora's speak of this when searching for Prince Ralis ("This is the only waterway that connects to Hyrule Castle," spoken when before a stone tunnel lined with torches, an obviously man-made structure which leads to a tributary also made from cut stone).

The Ocarina of Time map does, in fact, show that there is a wooded area surrounding the Castle. Also, the Temple of Time is beyond a large chasm in Twilight Princess. Similar chasms are found all over Hyrule, even in the Gerudo Desert. While there is no confirmation of this, there is evidence to support the notion that Hyrule's geography has been changing quite a bit, most likely due to seismic activity. In the way that such earthquakes may have carved the deep chasms across the rest of Hyrule, they may also be responsible for the Temple of Time's inaccessibility at the time of Twilight Princess. This would explain why the Temple is in ruin as well as why it has been so long forgotten.

I genuinely believe that Hyrule Castle and the nearby Town are in the Faron Province during Ocarina of Time. There is strong evidence coming from Hyrule Historia that points directly to that conclusion and it creates very few issues that cannot be adequetely explained, albeit with unconfirmed ideas based off of in-game evidence. In that light, I personally find it more likely that the Temple of Time has never been moved since being built by Rauru.

 

[DarkestLink]

1) IIRC SS Lanayru Province was in southeast, and there is no confirmation of Gerudo dessert being part of TP's Lanayru

Wii version map isn't canon.

3) In TP, the Castle is to the west of death mountain, you know what's also in that direction? The Temple of Time

In OoT? Yes. In TP? The Temple of Time is way south in the forest.

the similarities begin and end there,

The alleyways. Nothing else OoT has (save the Temple of Time) that TP doesn't.

OoT's castle had a huge courtyard and a moat, TP's castle didn't,

TP's entire castle town has a moat just like OoT's. Not every little detail is going to be the same. This is a game, not the real world. The developers don't really care that much for symmetry between the two titles. That's why the entrance to Zora's domain is found north rather than east.

TP's castle is built as a huge circular structure, OoT's is a conventional castle, fact is, they are more similarities between TP's castle town and ST's castle town than between TP's castle town and OoT's castle town

1) and 2) Ruins outside temple of time, different architecture of the new castle town, TP's Hyrule castle has areas still under construction

Now where is the evidence of The Temple of time being moved?

It wasn't. I know that for fact. How do I know that for fact? Because the game didn't blatantly say it. And that's all you can rely on with the Zelda series. Zelda isn't complex enough for the idea of Castle Town to slide without clear spoken hints or confirmation in game. The developers don't place stuff like that for you to figure out. Everything is either spelled out for you or extremely hinted by in-game dialogue.

The Gerudo Desert seen in Twilight Princess is not part of the Lanayru Province. It is a separate area not considered part of the kingdom of Hyrule, similar to the Ordon Province. Both deserts are northwest of their respective centre points though, but Twilight Princess's Lanayru Privince is actually directly to the north.

I can buy Ordon not being a part of Hyrule, but if you click your in-game map for the Lanayru province, the desert is clearly included.

Taking the Sealed Grounds as the centre of the world, Skyward Sword's Faron Province is more acurately described as being in the east, not the south. Similarly, Twilight Princess's Faron Woods would be in the east, with the larger part of the Province stretching further north.

Even so, both are clearly in southern eastern areas.

In Twilight Princess the Castle is directly west of Death Mountain.

When we look at the Ocarina of Time map, we see the Castle and Town are, in fact, south west of Death Mountain.

True, but the difference is extremely miniscule. It's not because they had to move the castle or geographical changes. It's because it's a game. I mean, there would be too many problems with moving the castle and town so little. 1) It would be pointless. 2) Both castle towns are surrounded by a moat.

This does not appear to be the case. The Town seen in Ocarina of Time is a town square, an alleyway and a dirt path leading further up the hill to the castle.

Exactly the same in TP, but the dirt path is smaller.

The Town identifies itself as the Market and it is little more than that. In Twilight Princess there is a communal square but it is not a market. The market area would be found on the South Road.

That's part of the Castle Town. OoT didn't have the power to make something so big.

There are four separate districts to the Town, it has higher walls and an ornamental garden to the south. It accessed on all sides via bridge, not just from the south.

That's because the game developers aren't pouring over every single detail of OoT. Sorta like how they didn't make OoT look EXACTLY the same as aLttP.

The designs of the two Towns varies greatly, as does the design on the two Castles.

Again, this is a game. Not the real world. Tiny little differences like these aren't because the game developers wanted us to realize they had moved towns. It's because the game developers are human and are under the belief that continuity and story really isn't that important and that gameplay is. Fact is, making a replica of OoT's castle town would have been far too tiny and below what TP could achieve. They'd only only be hurting themselves.

While technically true it is not too much of a stretch to believe it happened. Ocarina of Time shows us that Ganondorf did destroy the Market Town

In the adult timeline...

and so it would make sense for him to also do the same when he led "a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule" (told to us by the Ancient Sages in the Mirror Chamber). So no, there is no confirmation of it happening but there is evidence (beyond just that quote) to support the notion.

If this was the case, they would be in Kakariko. Also, this is Zelda, not real world history. If it happened, we would have gotten a clear in-game say so that it did.

Again, we have no confirmation of it but there is evidence which supports the idea. The Town's new location in regard to Death Mountain,

...At best it moved a couple of feet north.

the vastly altered landscape surrounding the Town,

They're both surrounded by moats. From there, it's green grassland infested by monsters.

the fact that the Temple of Time is no longer in the Town (why move it only to let it fall into ruin? It was a sacred place to the Hylians)

Because it had no purpose in TP.

and the apparent change of Province, if we accept the idea that the Town was in Faron Province in Ocarina of Time, another notion which can be supported with in-game evidence.

Even if I accepted that the Castle Town moved, there's no way it was ever in the Faron province. I could buy Eldin province it's close to Death Mountain, but it's as far away from faron province as humanly possible. The Faron province is in a forest in the south eastern area (Kokori Forest, Lost Woods, Sacred Grove). The Castle Town is slightly west and as far north as the map will allow.

In Ocarina of Time, Market Town would be our centre point, because the Temple of Time is there and Hyrule Historia tells us that was the centre of the world (this also adds more support for the idea that Market Town is in the Faron Province).

Sealed Temple.

That would place Kokiri Forest in the south east. And again, the mere fact that there are forests in the two confirmed appearances of the Faron Province does not strictly mean that the presence of a forest indicates the Faron Province. In Skyward Sword it had a lake which appears to have vanished, for example.

I might call that geographical changes but, more likely, it's because it's a game.

Also, the Castle in Twilight Princess can attribute the proximity of its water supply to a man-made channel built off the Zora River specifically to supply the town with water. The Zora's speak of this when searching for Prince Ralis ("This is the only waterway that connects to Hyrule Castle," spoken when before a stone tunnel lined with torches, an obviously man-made structure which leads to a tributary also made from cut stone).

Follow the moat in OoT's castle town and tell me where it leads you.

The Ocarina of Time map does, in fact, show that there is a wooded area surrounding the Castle. Also, the Temple of Time is beyond a large chasm in Twilight Princess. Similar chasms are found all over Hyrule, even in the Gerudo Desert. While there is no confirmation of this, there is evidence to support the notion that Hyrule's geography has been changing quite a bit, most likely due to seismic activity. In the way that such earthquakes may have carved the deep chasms across the rest of Hyrule, they may also be responsible for the Temple of Time's inaccessibility at the time of Twilight Princess. This would explain why the Temple is in ruin as well as why it has been so long forgotten.

You give Zelda's story and continuity too much credit.

I genuinely believe that Hyrule Castle and the nearby Town are in the Faron Province during Ocarina of Time. There is strong evidence coming from Hyrule Historia that points directly to that conclusion and it creates very few issues that cannot be adequetely explained, albeit with unconfirmed ideas based off of in-game evidence. In that light, I personally find it more likely that the Temple of Time has never been moved since being built by Rauru.

It wasn't moved (though that does sound more reasonable). There's just two Temple of Times. And the one in the Lanayru region is easier to access and in the right province of the CONFIRMED castle town.

 

[Random Person]

All right, there are a few flaws here.

Kakariko village n TP is not Kakariko vilage in OoT, actually, the village where the Eldin spring is found is new Kakariko, Old Kakariko is what is now known as the hidden village

And the ruins you mention can't be castle town, they are very far from the temple of time, however, in the sacred grove, look carefully at the area where you fight Skull kid, you will find a lot of similarities to OoT's castle town, and it's right next to the temple of time

Since your theory relied on Kakariko being stable, I think it's debunked

1)My theory did not rely on Kakariko, it relied on Death Moutain. I've not read HH so if it says that the Hidden Village is old Kakariko then fine, but I've not seen where it is indicated that the Hidden Village is old Kakariko. Can you provide some proof to this? Considering both Kakariko in OoT and TP are directly south at the base of Death Moutain (aka the same location) I find this hard to believe. However, even if this is true, if you go from Death Moutain's point of reference, my theory still holds.

2) You've neglected the detail that if you place Castle Town in East Hyrule Field, the other points of the map line up a great deal. Not exactly, mind you, but still...

3) The whole point of my theory was that I still do not have an explanation to the Temple of Time's location. Cfrock suggested that Castle Town being moved is the reason, I was stating that while I agree Castle Town was moved, it's most likely location would be East Hyrule Field and if I was correct, it would not explain the Temple of Time's location in TP.

It wasn't. I know that for fact. How do I know that for fact? Because the game didn't blatantly say it. And that's all you can rely on with the Zelda series. Zelda isn't complex enough for the idea of Castle Town to slide without clear spoken hints or confirmation in game. The developers don't place stuff like that for you to figure out. Everything is either spelled out for you or extremely hinted by in-game dialogue.

Fair warning, I've read children's books and seen children stories that have had in depth background detail that is never revealed to the audience. Why? Because they're children's books. Children will not care nor understand and the explaining of such detail will take away from the overall point of entertaining children. Any amount of literature, no matter how blatant it is known to be, has the possibility of having behind the scenes details that only the author knows. Saying that you know for a fact because it isn't stated, even for a kid's story or a Zelda story, can easily lead to being deceived.

And just because past Zelda games have had revolutionary things that they revealed openly, doesn't mean there also wasn't some details they didn't tell the audience.

The rest of Darkest Link's response

There are some things that I'm willing to say "That's because it's a game," and accept that. However, certain details are being brushed aside which I'm not willing to ignore. Instead of listing all of them, let me just ask... what do you think those ruins are in East Hyrule Field?

 

[Igos du Ikana]

Hmmm I don't believe they're the same structure, rather, they're different ones like you said. I used to ask myself as well until I decided it was pointless trying to figure it out and try to get some kind of consensus. The problem with them being the same structure (if they are) is the fact that Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess' locations for the Temple are different then it is in Ocarina of Time, so I don't really think they could be the same....unless of course they moved somehow, then I am wrong.

 

[DarkestLink]

1)My theory did not rely on Kakariko, it relied on Death Moutain. I've not read HH so if it says that the Hidden Village is old Kakariko then fine, but I've not seen where it is indicated that the Hidden Village is old Kakariko. Can you provide some proof to this? Considering both Kakariko in OoT and TP are directly south at the base of Death Moutain (aka the same location) I find this hard to believe. However, even if this is true, if you go from Death Moutain's point of reference, my theory still holds.

Not sure about this, but I think I've heard before that if you read the Hidden Village sign in Hylian, it says "Old Kakariko" or something.