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The Stalchild, the Mogma, and the Speculative Connection

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
This section could do with a speculative tag for new threads so I could avoid this opening paragraph about how this theory is, well, largely speculative. I have evidence, of a sort, to support the theory. It would be more accurate to say I have things which I can show you that led me to this idea. The point of this thread is simply to discuss a possible connection between the Stalchild and the Mogma because remember when theorising was about having fun talking about Zelda games and not about being right or wrong?

In that spirit I propose that there may exist some possible connection between the classic enemy Stalchild and the Mogma from Skyward Sword. One of the issues Skyward Sword raised for theorists was the existance of three races we had never seen before: the Kikwi, the Mogma, and the Parella. Since Skyward Sword is at the very beginning of the timeline and none of these races appear in any of the games which follow it, chronologically, it's understandable that people would want to know why. Were the Kikwi the precursor to the Deku Scrubs? Did the Parella die out following some calamity? Who knows?

Before I get into this, I want to establish that evolution is a know thing in the Zelda universe. We know this because of The Wind Waker, and because Aonuma specifically used the word "evolved" at one point:
"We created the Rito as the evolved form of the Zora that appeared in 'Ocarina of Time' and the Korogs as what the Kokiri became once they left the forest. They appear different, but they have inherited their blood." —Eiji Aonuma
He may have used it as an adjective instead of a verb but the point is he acknowledged the process of evolution. Judging by The Wind Waker, evolution also happens faster and has more dramatic results than in the real world, seeing as how fish turned into birds in a few centuries instead of a few millenia. I think it's fair to go ahead from this point accepting that some races in the Zelda universe evolve when need be, and that the result of that evolution is fairly dramatic.

You've probably gathered by now that I'm going to say that the Mogma evolved into the Stalchildren. Should I just move straight on to presenting why I'm saying that?

First off, take a look at these images (spoiler tags to keep page from looking messy):
Mogma.png

GDDnPxB.png
When the Mogma emerge from underground they pop out head and arms first. Well, head and arms only for the most part. The point is, the Stalchildren rise from the ground in the exact same way, except they bring out the legs as well. While it may be a coincidence or just the way you would climb out of a hole in the ground, it stood out to me and got me to thinking. That was when I noticed a couple of other similarities between the two.

738px-SSGuldConcept.jpg

Stalchild.png
Both Mogma and Stalchild have long arms. Like, really long arms. On the Mogma it's immediately noticable. It's not as obvious on the Stalchild since they almost always have their arms held up, but just look at how they're proprtioned and imagine them held loose at the sides. Their fingers would be about an inch or so off the floor.

Both creatures have mammalian skulls. Maybe that's not the best word to use there. Let's try again. Both creatures have snouty faces. Is that better or worse? The Mogma are clearly based off of moles, which have snouts. As in, their faces are long and stick out. The Stalchildren's skulls are also long and stick out. While they don't necessarily look like moles, their skulls obviously aren't human. They're much closer to what the Mogma skull would look like and it at the very least suggests that the Stalchildren would look like animals if they had flesh.

They also both seem to enjoy being underground. The Mogma love to dig for treasure and you only ever see two of them completely above ground. Even then, one of them operates a digging amusement while the other only emerges fully so he can go dig somewhere else. The Mogma are burrowers and it seems clear that digging and tunneling and whatnot is essential to their way of life. While the Stalchildren might not enjoy being underground they certainly seem to spend a lot of time down there. In Ocarina of Time they emerge from beneath Hyrule Field at night time from almost any location. In Twilight Princess they tend to live under the sands in the Arbiter's Grounds until ready to attack. Even in Majora's Mask they live in a canyon and are typically found in a graveyard, a place used to bury people. The ground, being underground, digging, dirt, earth, Mogma and Stalchildren have all of these associations in common.

I hope it's understandable at this point as to why a connection between these two creatures could be tentatively argued. I'm not here to say that they definately are, or even that I agree with this theory myself. I just think it's something that could be fun to consider. I'll leave it at that for now since I don't want to dry up discussion this early by putting down everything I have to say on this subject. There is more, of course, mostly to do with possible reasons as to why the Mogma changed, but for now I'm much more interested to hear what everyone else thinks, whether this is nonsense from the start, whether it makes sense, and mostly whether there are any other connections other people have noticed. So have at it :)
 

Dragoncat

Twilit wildcat: Aerofelis
It is a bit of a wild theory, I thought the stalchildren were just young stalfos myself. Now stalfos don't burrow, but it would be like a tadpole becoming a frog only with dirt instead of water. But there's also the "get lost in the lost woods, you turn into a stalfos" thing...and I guess they're probably more likely undead creatures that can't reproduce normally...so idk.

But here's the thing: mogmas are allies and stalchildren attack you. When zoras evolved into ritos, they didn't become monsters. Probably doesnt matter here considering you're saying some catastrophic event turned the mogmas into mindless bloodthirsty skeletal creatures...but it's worth pointing out.

All in all, good find.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
I think the implication is meant to imply the death of the Mogmas. Whether this be at the hands of a violent volcanic eruption... or some other hostile race like the Gorons moving in I can't be sure.

The renaming of Eldin Volcano to Death Mountain is something I hadn't even thought of, and I like the idea of that happening because of the poor Mogma (although that might just be because of this thread and Mogmas have been on my mind of late). The Mogmas are certainly native to Eldin (I don't remember seeing any outside of that region except for in Skyloft as part of that side-quest, although I vaguely recall one popping up at some point, maybe...) and later games in the timeline have shown Eldin/Death Mountain to be the home of the Gorons. Since the Gorons are present in Skyward Sword but are spread over the world with no singular location that could be called 'theirs' my initial logic was that the Mogma's fate had something to do with the Gorons, hence the bolded quote.

That led me to consider the Stalchildren's little skirt things you mentioned. They are reminiscent of the uniform of Roman soldiers and give off a militaristic vibe. When Stalchildren appeared in Majora's Mask thay had a captain in Captain Keeta, which was clear evidence of a military system they all seemed to be a part of, and the Stalchildren in Twilight Princess all used spears, wore gauntlets, and attacked in groups, or squads. There's a theme of militarism to Stalchildren throughout the series, certainly.

Skyward Sword does show us that Mogma tend to be cowardly and their main response to conflict is to flee. But what if they had nowhere to flee to? The Gorons must have chosen to settle in Eldin at some point and one thing we know about Gorons is that they mine. Dodongo's Cavern was a mine in Ocarina of Time which supplied them with the special type of rocks they liked to eat, while Twilight Princess' Goron Mines is pretty self-explanatory. Would the Mogma, who love to dig and seek out treasure as a natural instinct, have been able to peacefully co-exist with a race of brutish rock-beasts who survive by tearing the ground open and plundering whatever they find? Maybe for a while, but eventually something's got to give.

It's possible that such a conflict could have led to the Mogma becoming more militant, in an attempt to either drive off the Gorons or at least to mark out separate territories. Judging by the natural strength and resiliance of the Gorons and the cowardly nature of the Mogma, any initial conflict would be laughable one-sided. That provides the "need" for evolution I mentioned in the original post. The Mogma's legs develop, freeing up their arms above ground; a small change but a dramatic one. Now the Mogma can do things above ground that they couldn't before, like build things, craft weapons, and develop structures. A dire enough need can lead to rampant militarism, involving things like conscription, or a military society. Again, almost all of the Stalchildren in Majora's Mask seem to follow the orders of Captain Keeta, which implies they're all part of the same military force. Could that be a result of the changes brought on after the Gorons moved into Eldin? Probably not since Termina is not Hyrule, but the Stalchildren from Ocarina of Time still show the visual signs of militarism and the ones from Twilight Princess seem to have actually gone a little further, and they definately take place in Hyrule.

All speculation, sadly, but at least there's some logic behind it. You're absolutely right about Tatl's quote being a big kick in the teeth to this theory, but does it prove it false? While she may be refering to the Stalchildren of Termina and so it might not matter, Termina was a parallel to Hyrule and it still had the Gorons, the Deku Scrubs, fairies, and most of the people of Hyrule (at least in image) so I wouldn't just strike it off as negligible. The other races in Termina seem to have a close relation to their counter-parts: the Gorons of both worlds mine and eat rocks and live on mountains; the Deku Scrubs of both worlds live in densely forested areas and are wary of strangers; the Zoras of both worlds live at major water sources and have a strong culture (royal heritage in OoT, popular music in MM). Why would the Stalchildren be any different? What applies to the bony buggers in Majora's Mask likely isn't too far from what applies to them in Ocarina of Time, so I feel the whole "cursed soldier" bit could apply to both games.

There are two questions this raises in the context of this theory. Who were they before the curse, and why were they cursed at all? At the risk of fitting the facts around the theory, is there any reason why it couldn't be Mogma (or evolved Mogma) soldiers who suffered a curse? All we know is that the Stalchildren were soldiers who were cursed, a curse which presumably left them as undead skeletons. We don't know what they were like before undeath. Is undeath a real word? While this theory may be highly speculative and based on thin evidence which doesn't go very deep, it does provide a possibility of an answer to that question.

The other question also has a potential answer, and it's at this point I want to bring in a point raised by Dragoncat.

It is a bit of a wild theory, I thought the stalchildren were just young stalfos myself. Now stalfos don't burrow, but it would be like a tadpole becoming a frog only with dirt instead of water. But there's also the "get lost in the lost woods, you turn into a stalfos" thing

"Believing in your friends and embracing that belief by forgiving failure... These feelings have vanished from our hearts." - Igos du Ikana

Could this relate to the curse placed on Stal-kind in Ikana? Igos and the way he seems to re-learn compassion is presented as somethign of a redemption in Majora's Mask, as indeed so much else is too. Losing sight of freindship and forgiveness could be the root of the curse, although there's no concrete way to say for sure. It's merely a possibility. But of course, that is only relevant to this theory if we can connect the Mogma to Igos du Ikana. Well, here goes nothing.

I always used to just lump Stalfos and Stalchildren as two types of the same thing but there's more different about them than is similar, generally to do with the types of weapons they use, how they attack, how they are defeated, and where they are found (since Stalchildren almost exclusively come out of the ground while Stalfos generally don't). Logically, the undead can't grow and develop and the only difference between incarnations of these enemy types tends to be in the realm of weaponry or method of attack. Stalchildren, even as far along the timeline as Twilight Princess, are still as small as a child while Stalfos are still the size of a full grown adult, if not bigger, which implies they do not grow or change from their normal state. More recently I've thought that "Stal-" is just a prefix in Hyrule to indicate either a skeletal form or undeath (as you can see, I'm assuming it is a real word). Similar to how "Gohma" seems to refer to any manner of arthropod, be it a spider, crab, or generic parasite monster, "stal-" might just be the prefix attached to certain types of otherwise unrelated enemies.

That said, there is a potential connection between Mogma and Stalfos (if you're looking for it, at least). Trust me, if you thought the rest was speculation, you're going to love this.

Igos_Throne.jpg

MM_StalfosKnights.png

You may recognise Igos du Ikana and his two little henchmen, who I shall henceforth refer to as Komodo Moe (on the left) and Komodo Joe (on the right). Most Stalfos, especially of the N64 era, had normal shaped, human skulls. So why are these three so different? It's not too often in Zelda that you find a race that has individuals who differ so wildly from the norm. It does happen, of course, but you can usually find some likely explanation for it. King Zora and the Deku King were royalty and it's possible that royal Zoras look different (similar to how female Zoras look different), and maybe royal Deku Scrubs do too. That may even be why they are the royalty, like how Nutsak is the chief Kikwi because he's bigger than the rest. Those old Gorons in Twilight Princess are pretty different but then they're old and maybe that's just the effects of aging. But Igos, Moe, and Joe are all Stalfos and their skulls are vastly different to normal Stalfos--even to each other--and they would obviously look less than human if they had flesh on those bones.

The only race I can even think of that has big, noticable differences that are common amongst the race is the Mogma. Cobal here is representative of the general Mogma population, in terms of physical structure:
589px-CobalSS.png
But then look at Plats, and his oddly pointy skull:
PlatsSS.png
Or Tubert, with his complete disregard for anything close to a neck or head:
TubertSS.png
Is the oddly uncommon shape of Igos and friends' heads related to how Mogma seem to have a similar thing going on? Probably not but where's the fun in just saying no?

The conversation Moe and Joe have once you've defeated the little gang is also somewhat reminiscent of the Mogma and the way they speak to or about each other...:
Moe: You're blocking me! Get out of the way! I can still get him!
Joe: B-blocking you?! The reason he beat us is because you were so feeble! Don't blame this on me!
Moe: What?! Just try saying that again to my bony face!
Joe: Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble!
Moe: Shut up, already! Grrrr!!! Don't look at me--I was once called the best swordsman in all of Ikana...
Joe: The greatest swordsman in all of Ikana? You? Feeeeeeeeble.
Moe: ...Draw your weapon!
Joe: Huh?
Moe: I'm telling you to draw your sword!
Joe: ...... How? *Laughter ensues*
Moe: Rrrrrr-Ah!!!
... but even I wouldn't take that as evidence because this particular connection is there only because I'm looking for it, I just think it's fun to point out.

What about Igos du Ikana's bracelets and--*shudder*--anklets. We know the Mogma love treasure and valuables so it seems natural that something related to them would have a fondness for flash as well. His nifty headdress may even be a nod to the way Mogma have very diverse hair cuts, almost like head decoration is a cultural thing for them. Again though, this can easily be batted away as there-because-you-want-it-there or simply just the vanity of a king. The reason I bring it up is to demonstrate that Zelda theory, even weak theories without much backing them up, can enrich the lore and universe if you let it. Igos doesn't have gold bracelets because he's a king, he has them because he is decended from a race of burrowing treasure hunters who were driven from their home by rock-beasts and forced to take up arms just to survive, but were cursed because they lost sight of their compassion. Isn't that much more fun and interesting?

The main problem with this theory is lack of hard evidence and, as I said, I don't necessarily believe it myself, but it's still fun to look into certain aspects of the games you might not otherwise think about too much or too often. You never know what you'll find, what you'll think up, or how much fun you'll find it. Isn't that more important than just being purely right or wrong about something?
 
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Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
Isn't possible the Stalchild is actually composite of bones from different creatures that dies in Hyrule field? Maybe that's way the arms seem mismatched from the shape of the skeleton, as in being too long. So it is possible that the Stalchild is part Morga and part some other things, maybe humans as well.

I say this because of Frankenstein, he created the monster out of corpses from different people, that's why he seemed ugly, that and he's made from rotting corpses.
 
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