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The Six Sages Are Dead

Doc

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This is a minor theory, one that has very little effect on the series as a whole, but I had noticed it in my last play through.

In OoT, Link must awaken five sages, the first already was. This is of course after the seven years in tr adult era of the game. The five sages were all people Link met during the child era and can be found and spoken to throughout the world. However, during the adult era, we don't see them until they are awakened and in the chamber of sages. There are only two instances where Link sees the sage before: Darunia and Nabooru. The last that is seen of Darunia is when he tells Link to rescue the Gorons while he fights volvagia. But Link goes into the boss chamber and defeats the dragon, but Darunia is missing. In Nabooru's case, twinrova do something to her that makes her disappear. Then she is seen in the chamber of sages. During the credits, the six sages are small balls that fly through the air, leading me to believe thy are now only spirits.

Thank you for reading and please tell me if there is something I missed.
 

Cfrock

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I think I've read something similar to this before. I'm not certain but it seems familiar. There's nothing wrong with the points you've mentioned and it's an interesting theory, but what I would suggest is that you expand the evidence to make the theory more solid.

First off, you should take a look at all of the sages, not just Darunia and Nabooru. You should include specifics about Saria and Impa, and recall that we see Ruto in the Water Temple and that Rauru manifests in the form of Kaepora Gaebora, the owl. Accounting for all of them will make the theory stronger.

The second thing is it'd be interesting to consider what significance the sages being dead has. If they have to die before being awakened, why? Is it a requirment or just a tragic coincidence? If they were all dead then why wasn't Princess Zelda, too? Furthermore, what about the sages in later games, like The Wind Waker and A Link Between Worlds? Are they dead as well, and if not then why not? Finding potential answers to questions like these can strengthen the theory and perhaps lead to more interesting insights.
 

Justac00lguy

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Yeah I've heard a theory similar to this before though it focused more so on the Sages appearing as spirits within the Sacred Realm and they could never take on their full form again. However, I do have a few problems with this theory.

We actually see Ruto in the Adult Era - within the Water Temple. She doesn't appear to be a spirit/ghost, but very much a living, physical being. I guess you could make a case for the other Sages being "dead" but what does this mean? I think Sages have some sort of power... maybe they are immortal or have a prolonged life span. Well for one we know that Rauru has such powers since he was present during the sealing of the Sacred Realm - in a time known as the Era of Chaos. We can interpret this to be a while before Ocarina of Time since this was even before the events of The Minish Cap.

Now I do believe that each Sage is some sort of spirit; however, this might be due to their role with staying within the Sacred Realm. Remember we see Princess Zelda, a Sage herself, take on a physical form during the latter moments of the game. I just see the Sages as a symbol of unification and their appearance in the Sacred Realm is maybe a form of protection and bond of power to eventually help the hero.
 

Salem

SICK
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May 18, 2013
A lot of them gotta have descendants for either ALTTP or ALBW. So besides Darunia, the rest don't seem to have children before becoming sages, do they?
 

Locke

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Yes, it's certainly an interesting correlation to notice. But there has to be a difference between "death" and some other sort of ascension. The Sages seen in WW died and because of that they couldn't be Sages anymore. On the other hand, the Sages in TP seem rather ghostly and they can still function as Sages (though, as with the case in WW, one of them did die). So if the OoT Sages are anything like the Sages in the rest of the series, they can't have "died" per se. Maybe something else happened to them. Not quite an Obi-Wan-type thing, but something close that doesn't involve dying or losing their bodies.
 

Doc

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Yes, it's certainly an interesting correlation to notice. But there has to be a difference between "death" and some other sort of ascension. The Sages seen in WW died and because of that they couldn't be Sages anymore. On the other hand, the Sages in TP seem rather ghostly and they can still function as Sages (though, as with the case in WW, one of them did die). So if the OoT Sages are anything like the Sages in the rest of the series, they can't have "died" per se. Maybe something else happened to them. Not quite an Obi-Wan-type thing, but something close that doesn't involve dying or losing their bodies.

The sages in WW served a much different purpose than that of OoT. The sages in WW were tasked with praying to the gods to keep the master sword at full strength. The sages of OoT were used for the power they possessed due to their roles as sages.

The sages of OoT also appeared to have been killed (assuming they were) by something other than Ganondorf. The sage of whom was killed in TP was vanquished by him. During this point in time, Ganondorf had the triforce of power. This leads me to believe that it was the triforce that made him capable of destroying the sages spirit entirely.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
While this is an interesting theory, there is a rising theory now which may help to debunk this idea.

Well first off we must look at the obvious... descendants. As mentioned above the only Sages who have children in OoT is Darunia, the others, as far as we are aware, do not. That's a strike against it.

Second, is that they Do appear in the ordinary world again once they become Sages, in the ending the Sages go on top of Death Mountain to view the world at peace and they seem quite alive. Of notice the only sage missing is Rauru because his incarnation of Kaepora Gaebora is off doing other things (like flying around Gerudo Valley). Which hints that Rauru is the only one to have lost his physical body because he's possibly over 1,000 years old.

The TP sages are a strange bunch and here's my thoughts on them (which I think I posted a Very long time ago...) they are the Original Elemental Sages, likely peers of Rauru. They project themselves from the Sacred Realm into that form, since I feel that Rauru and the TP Sage of Light are one in the same. It is also of note that this is the Sage that speaks for the others in giving background. In OoT the other Original Sages were likely killed by Ganondorf while trying to defend the Sacred Realm with only Rauru being able to keep the Temple of Light safe.

Now here's the new part of the theory...

A theory has recently arisen that the Temples in OoT are backdoors, so to speak, to the Sacred Realm. This sort of idea is strengthened by the ALttP manual of all things which mentions the Triforce possibly being hidden "The Cemetery in the Shadow of Death Mountain." and "That it lay under the Desert". Though not clear references, they show that it may be commonly thought the Shadow Temple and Spirit Temple may contain the Triforce.

Triforce imagery in the Temples are rare, except for the Spirit Temple which has a Winged Triforce encased in a sphere atop its entrance. And the best evidence for this theory is, oddly enough, in the Forest Temple of all places. The rest of the dungeon has very little to do with the Triforce and there is no imagery of it at all, but the Boss Room is Awash in the Most Triforce imagery in the entire game. Triforces in every corner of the room a large one in the middle and the Hylian that is written there is "Triforce-Triforce-Triforce-Triforce" and the Blue Portal appears in the center there. This is the best evidence that the Temple Boss Rooms are other ways into the Sacred Realm, but I feel that they can only be opened by the Sage of that specific element. Hence why they couldn't be exploited by Ganondorf to gain entrance, and why they open when the evil that is Literally blocking the gate is defeated.
 

Jirohnagi

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Feel i have to say, apart from Bongo Bongo who i think was attracted to the death within the shadow temple and that he feeds upon that death. The other Temples had guardians placed in each one to stop access. Or maybe they were tasked with breaking into the light temple. The other one who seems innocuous to this purpose is Volvagia. I believe the young goron states that Ganondorf revived him/her to make an example of the gorons and to eventually make a wasteland ( a bigger one) of hyrule Bear in mind I could be wrong there. I doubt the Sages died because as pointed out how do they have descendants. The WW Sages are different Ganon slew them to prevent the master sword being all powerful. The Sages all likely have the ability to project their spirits about. The only thing i can think of that supports the Sages are dead is the fact each one disappears within their respective temples. Saria is stated to have gone to the Forest Temple to find out what has happened their but we never see her in there. Darunia we see inside the Fire Temple and he proceeds to the boss room but he vanishes. Ruto also pulls a vanishing stunt and we no longer see her. I think she managed to get to the boss room. Impa is stated also to have gone to the Shadow Temple in an attempt to seal Bongo Bongo. We see what happens to Nabooru.

When I look at the evidence two thoughts occurred to me. Maybe each sage (apart from nabooru) found a back door to the Light Temple while they were in the Temple. For all we know there might be multiple Entrances in each Temple apart from the ones we saw. I think each Sage drew on their power without them knowing to gain access to the Sacred Realm when they were in grave peril. Such as Nabooru who we see was attacked by Twinrova and then vanishes. IF they had killed her surely there'd be a corpse i mean we see fallen foes all the time. Such as the Iron Knuckle it falls to it's knees and burns away. Same with most foes. Why would it be different with Nabooru? Other sages such as Saria, Impa and Ruto might have been attacked by the bosses themselves but each one ran to the boss room and accessed the sacred realm there and hence why we find the bosses there. Darunia might have done the same when undoubtedly volvagia attacked in the crater heart.
 
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I have my own ideas surrounding the sages, but they are not thought out well enough to formulate a solid theory (yet). Basically, I am of the mind that they idea of the sages being "descendants" is just one of those "So the legends say.."

The Fire Sage in ALBW isn't quite a Goron. He looks freaky, but he has pointed ears and other "Hylian qualities" and if he IS a Goron, it certainly isn't mentioned (not to mention Gorons seem absent in this timeline). While I suppose it is possible that he could be some hybrid of both races (that poor woman, if so >.<), Goron reproduction is still a mystery, right? The only race outside of Hylian (since I am assuming it is not dissimilar to human reproduction) I've been able to pin has been Zora, and even still I don't know what is required for a Zora to lay eggs. Also, all Gorons seem to be "male", so it is reasonable to assume they are asexual. If this is the case, interspecies reproduction would most likely be impossible. Rosso (the presumed Fire Sage in ALBW) does have the Goron symbol on his belt, but I'm not sold.

Gulley is another example. Saria, his alleged ancestor, was a Kokiri. As far as I know, Kokiri did not age and were created by the Great Deku Tree, suggesting no need or even means to reproduce. Again, this is all speculation, but it seriously makes me wonder just how solid the notion that the sages only exist within a bloodline.

My idea is that the sages are spiritual beings that utilize the various races as vessels when necessary (being unable to walk outside the Sacred Realm or whoever it is they reside). I think any relation to previous mortal sages is a mere coincidence. Perhaps in cases where reproduction is possible, the original Spiritual Sage chooses a descendant as a vessel assuming they will share some of the admirable qualities of their ancestor.

I am still working this out and need more evidence, but I am definitely shying away from the entire idea of it having to be a descendant of a previous sage.

I always thought they had died simply from the context of the game (and for no deeper meaning at the time). Perhaps it is what allowed them to reach the Sacred Realm. Yes, they are visible at the end, but they aren't interacting with anyone else but [other] sages. I hardly see how this proves they are alive, especially because they have to become balls of light to get near everyone else.
 

Jirohnagi

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Cero If we assume ALBW is in the defeated timeline. Then the gorons are all dead due to ganondorf killing them all. They were due to be food anywho.]
The Kokiri were also stated to die when they leave the forest and yet you see them at the end of the game. I think the kokiri are really forest spirits anyway. What happens to the adults could happen to kids as well. A child get lost in the Lost Woods and the great deku tree takes care of them. Also how do the kokiri reproduce if they all kids.

I like the thoughts that the sages are spiritual descendants.
 
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Cero If we assume ALBW is in the defeated timeline. Then the gorons are all dead due to ganondorf killing them all. They were due to be food anywho.]
The Kokiri were also stated to die when they leave the forest and yet you see them at the end of the game. I think the kokiri are really forest spirits anyway. What happens to the adults could happen to kids as well. A child get lost in the Lost Woods and the great deku tree takes care of them. Also how do the kokiri reproduce if they all kids.

That's what I'm saying! If Kokiri can reproduce, that's pretty gross and won't go over so well with fans (at least in the West). And you're right, the absence of Gorons is most likely because they were exterminated, further proving the point. I'm pretty comfortable claiming that the sages are not required to be part of a particular bloodline.

Now whether or not the sages are dead at the end of OoT, I am not sure but I was always under the impression that they passed away.
 
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Saying that the sages are dead requires far more assumptions than saying that they are alive; therefore, I believe they are alive at the end. I will grant that they have some special abilities, but I don't see a reason to believe that they are dead. Seeing the "orbs" flying around at the end doesn't seem to indicate death considering that Link uses magic to travel around from temple to temple all the time. We know that the sages have some pretty remarkable powers. Zelda specifically says that because she is a sage, she can send Link back to his childhood. Rauru is able to take on the form of an owl in Hyrule in order to guide and watch over Link. Rauru also seems to have the power to put people to sleep for seven years. Why do the sages disappear in the temples until the boss is defeated? Perhaps they are hiding. Perhaps Rauru is protecting them. I can't say for certain, but to assume death is hasty.

Further, when characters like Twinrova and Dampe die, it is very evident that they are dead. I believe that if the game designers wanted the sages to be dead, it would have been apparent that they were so.

I wouldn't look into descendants too much because I think it is pretty hazy territory to try to prove things that way, but I would say that it gives slightly more weight to the notion that they are not dead.
 

Doc

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Rauru is able to take on the form of an owl in Hyrule in order to guide and watch over Link. Rauru also seems to have the power to put people to sleep for seven years.

I forgot to include Rauru in the OP, but he does not take on the form of an owl. If you go to the correct gossip stone in the Sacred Meadow, it says that the owl, Kaepora Gaebora (spelling might be wrong there, not in the mood to look it up), is the reincarnation of an ancient sage. A reincarnation is defined as, "the belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form." This means that Rauru must have died and returned as the owl, but his spirit as a sage still existed. He even says how he was alive before the Temple of Time was completed. When Link first awakes from his sleep Rauru says
Ages ago, we ancient Sages built the Temple of Time to protect the entrance to the Sacred Realm.
The Temple of Time is extremely old, possibly dating back to before Hyrule, if we are to believe the Temple of Hylia is it in the past. If not, then the ToT is still an ancient building, surely those who built it had died long before the events of OoT. Why Rauru's spirit is still existent, I cannot say. All I know is that he certainly should have died.

I should also note that Rauru doesn't put Link in his seven year sleep. It is the Master Sword entering and being pulled out of the Pedestal of Time.
 
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I forgot to include Rauru in the OP, but he does not take on the form of an owl. If you go to the correct gossip stone in the Sacred Meadow, it says that the owl, Kaepora Gaebora (spelling might be wrong there, not in the mood to look it up), is the reincarnation of an ancient sage. A reincarnation is defined as, "the belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form." This means that Rauru must have died and returned as the owl, but his spirit as a sage still existed. He even says how he was alive before the Temple of Time was completed. When Link first awakes from his sleep Rauru says The Temple of Time is extremely old, possibly dating back to before Hyrule, if we are to believe the Temple of Hylia is it in the past. If not, then the ToT is still an ancient building, surely those who built it had died long before the events of OoT. Why Rauru's spirit is still existent, I cannot say. All I know is that he certainly should have died.

We have slightly conflicting information from the Gossip Stone and Hyrule Historia; perhaps not enough so to go against what you are saying, but I thought I'd point them out.The Stone says: "They say that the owl named Kaepora Gaebora is the reincarnation of an ancient sage." I think anything from the gossip stones, specifically prefaced by "They say" should be taken with some scrutiny. Concerning Kaepora Gaebora, Hyrule Historia says "Before Link drew the Master Sword, Rauru took on the form of an unusual bird named Kaepora Gaebora, watching over the boy as he progressed in his adventure (87)." Again, those aren't necessarily at odds, but I believe the former is somewhat unreliable, and the latter does not hint at death.

Your statement about his age is on point. Hyrule Historia explicitly states: "Rauru constructed the Temple of Time, which contained the only existing entrance to the Sacred Realm, where the Triforce was located (77)." A sidenote goes on to suggest that he may have built the Temple of Time directly over the Sealed Temple. We don't know exactly how much time has passed since the Temple of Time was built, but we can assume that it was a greater period of time than the average person's life. My only explanation for this is that Rauru has lived so long because of either the power of the Triforce specifically, or because of some power or alternate passage of time present within the Sacred Realm. When Ganon is sealed in the Sacred Realm (in various timelines) he is able to remain alive for unreasonable periods of time. Given the fact that Rauru is the explicit protector of the Triforce, it seems more likely that he remained alive in order to be able to protect it, rather than simply dying of old age.

And after checking online, you are right that it was not Rauru himself that put Link to sleep. That still doesn't negate the fact that he clearly has remarkable powers.
 

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